Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by drobswim13

I kind of get that feeling too. The reason he changed it to begin with was because he felt that Han shouldn't be seen as a "bad guy" type of character. I don't think he ever was, regardless on if he shot first (which he needs to). However, some of you are right in that when he did change it, it looked completely awful and there is no way a bounty hunter like Greedo would miss from 5 ft. away.

Agreed.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by saying a bounty hunter like Greedo though. While I completely agree that it would be pretty hard to miss from (not even) 5-feet away, especially for someone getting paid to kill, but... When you say a bounty hunter like Greedo, you do know that Greedo was the equivalent of a young teenager (in Rhodian years) and going after Han Solo was his very first mission. Greedo wasn't exaclty a notorious bounty hunter. He was more of a young punk, noob wannabe.

That said, I hate that G.L. chenged it to Greedo shooting first. Han was a "scoundrel" at the begining of the saga. I don't know why G.L. wanted to change things & make Han the same character at the begining that he was at the end. That's what's called character developement (something G.L. has never been good at). If you go back & try to make the character the same at the onset as at the conclusion, you have effectively destroyed any character developement that may have taken place. Personally, I thought he should have stayed more of a scoundrel... At least Han didn't get punked out as bad as Lando.

[drobswim13]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by saying a bounty hunter like Greedo though. While I completely agree that it would be pretty hard to miss from (not even) 5-feet away, especially for someone getting paid to kill, but... When you say a bounty hunter like Greedo, you do know that Greedo was the equivalent of a young teenager (in Rhodian years) and going after Han Solo was his very first mission. Greedo wasn't exaclty a notorious bounty hunter. He was more of a young punk, noob wannabe.

That said, I hate that G.L. chenged it to Greedo shooting first. Han was a "scoundrel" at the begining of the saga. I don't know why G.L. wanted change things & make Han the same character at the begining that he was at the end. That's what's called character developement. If you go back & try to make the character the same at the onset as at the conclusion, you have effectively destroyed any character developement that originally took place. Personally, I thought he should have stayed more of a scoundrel... At least Han didn't get punked out as bad as Lando.

All I was saying was that Greedo was a bounty hunter. I did know that this was his first mission, but it still doesn't explain how he could possibly miss from that distance. Just give us the unaltered trilogies somehow and I will be feeling fine.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by saying a bounty hunter like Greedo though. While I completely agree that it would be pretty hard to miss from (not even) 5-feet away, especially for someone getting paid to kill, but... When you say a bounty hunter like Greedo, you do know that Greedo was the equivalent of a young teenager (in Rhodian years) and going after Han Solo was his very first mission. Greedo wasn't exaclty a notorious bounty hunter. He was more of a young punk, noob wannabe.

That said, I hate that G.L. chenged it to Greedo shooting first. Han was a "scoundrel" at the begining of the saga. I don't know why G.L. wanted to change things & make Han the same character at the begining that he was at the end. That's what's called character developement (something G.L. has never been good at). If you go back & try to make the character the same at the onset as at the conclusion, you have effectively destroyed any character developement that may have taken place. Personally, I thought he should have stayed more of a scoundrel... At least Han didn't get punked out as bad as Lando.

Have you read the SW book:Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina?There-like others have said-it painted Greedo as a rookie trying to make a name for himself.But to miss from less than 5 feet is just ludicrous.Like many others have said,I hate that revisionism,but it in no way spoils the movie like Apocalypse now redux did.It just show poor judgement from George Lucas joining the political correct bandwagon

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Have you read the SW book:Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina?There-like others have said-it painted Greedo as a rookie trying to make a name for himself.But to miss from less than 5 feet is just ludicrous.Like many others have said,I hate that revisionism,but it in no way spoils the movie like Apocalypse now redux did.It just show poor judgement from George Lucas joining the political correct bandwagon

Yeah, I know. I did say I agree that it's pretty hard to miss from that distance. To be honest, it was probably a lot less than 5-feet. I mean it was just across a small, cantina table (I would say more like a foot to a foot & a half). It just sounded in the post I was replying to, that the poster thought Greedo was a big-time, notorious bounty hunter. I was just trying to figure out if he knew that wasn't the case. I wasn't disagreeing, I was just making polite, Star Wars fan conversation.

And yes, I have read Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina. I've also read Tales of the Bounty Hunters. It's been so long, I forget which book Greedo's tale was in.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

It just show poor judgement from George Lucas joining the political correct bandwagon

If he doesn't change the scene back, I think he at least needs to replace Han's gun with a walkie-talkie.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

If he doesn't change the scene back, I think he at least needs to replace Han's gun with a walkie-talkie.

A Blackberry.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

However, other than those scenes, some of the changes are welcome, IMO. The Mos Eisley "spruce up" looks good to me and helps make the originals look more like the prequels which is a good thing. The extra scenes at the and of ROTJ showing Bespin and Coruscant are good and also blend in nicely with the look of the prequels. The cleaning up and additions to the dogfights in the final battle in A New Hope are great and make this battle a better watch. Some of the other quick shots and clean-ups are also well worth it. I even like showing Anakin as a young "ghost" at the end of ROTJ - that was the age range he was when he was still "good" so this shot makes sense to me.

Look, Im with you guys on some of this stuff being unneccessary or outright awful, like Greedo shoting first. But, many of the additions and clean-ups are welcomed and work great, IMO. Some of the effects arent holding up as well now as they did 30 years ago so a litttle CGI clean-up is NOT a bad thing. If alls I ever get on blu-ray are the special editions of the original trilogy, I can certainly live with that.

Well, the movies looking more like the prequels can be really good or really bad depending on how you feel about the prequels...

I would also say that you can go either way with the Anakin ghost argument. It could make sense that he would revert to the form he had before he ever turned to the dark side. But you can also argue that he turned back to good before death, so his ghost would appropriately look like his pure undamaged old-man self just like Obi-Wan and Yoda. It isn't confusing, as some argue. He is clearly the same man you see when Luke takes his mask off. This another case of whether you want the film to tie back into the prequels or not.

Finally, the effects. I'm no fan of the Mos Eisley cgi addition. I get that he was trying to make the city busier, but what he did was add "hey look at this!" silly bits that distract from what is going on in the film-- I especially get annoyed with the giant creatures moving in front of the frame. As far as how the old effects hold up, I think they hold up better than the 1997 CGI of the Special Editions. I DO like some of the added X-Wing shots, and the SUBTLE changes like adding windows to Cloud City. If he had employed that level of restraint on all three films (like what Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner: The Final Cut) then I probably would actually prefer the Special Editions.

[BlackRiderX]

I'm with the poster that mentioned Boba Fett's voice as the only change that really bothered me. Fett and his sinister voice was my favorite part of TESB as a child. (Well, after the Hoth Battle)

[drobswim13]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Well, the movies looking more like the prequels can be really good or really bad depending on how you feel about the prequels...

I would also say that you can go either way with the Anakin ghost argument. It could make sense that he would revert to the form he had before he ever turned to the dark side. But you can also argue that he turned back to good before death, so his ghost would appropriately look like his pure undamaged old-man self just like Obi-Wan and Yoda. It isn't confusing, as some argue. He is clearly the same man you see when Luke takes his mask off. This another case of whether you want the film to tie back into the prequels or not.

Finally, the effects. I'm no fan of the Mos Eisley cgi addition. I get that he was trying to make the city busier, but what he did was add "hey look at this!" silly bits that distract from what is going on in the film-- I especially get annoyed with the giant creatures moving in front of the frame. As far as how the old effects hold up, I think they hold up better than the 1997 CGI of the Special Editions. I DO like some of the added X-Wing shots, and the SUBTLE changes like adding windows to Cloud City. If he had employed that level of restraint on all three films (like what Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner: The Final Cut) then I probably would actually prefer the Special Editions.

I am in agreement with a lot of this. I also think the Mos Eisley CGI addition is awful. It looks horrid and just adds distractions, like you said, that I don't need to see. I also believe that the small additions on Cloud City and the X-wing shots are good things. Very small additions like that are ok, but that is about it.

As for Hadyn showing up in ROTJ, I almost fainted when I saw it the first time. Putting his horrid acting aside (not saying he hasn't done well in other films), the replacement in ROTJ truly does not make sense to me. It may tie the prequel trilogy with the original, but it is very weak IMO if that is the one reason they did this. I think anyone watching the OT and PT for the first time would make the connection without the addition of Hadyn.

[OG Pooh]

Hayden as Anakin's ghost was one of the switches that I didn't agree with either. Seeing that he returned to the good side before he died, that's the "version" of him that should have appeared... Played by Sabastian Shaw.

As for the Mos Eisley changes... Some were okay. Going back and looking at the original version of Mos Eisley now, it does look pretty bad. I personally think G.L. needs to make some more changes inside the cantina (including reverting to Han shooting first).

[kenkraly2004]

Watching all 6 of the films now on dvd has me excited for the potential of the blu-ray release in 2011 and the picture quallity in full 1080p is going to be so much better than upscaled 480p dvd. Also depend on if it's going dolby ture hd or dts hd ma the sound of all 6 films will be good on blu-ray and if some of the sound issues will be fixed for episode 4 a new hope that will be a huge plus. Hopefully the original cuts are released on BD one day but if it's the speical editions I am ok with that. Anyways excited for the blu-ray release of all the star wars films in 2011 can't wait.

[Milambian]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

Watching all 6 of the films now on dvd has me excited for the potential of the blu-ray release in 2011 and the picture quallity in full 1080p is going to be so much better than upscaled 480p dvd. Also depend on if it's going dolby ture hd or dts hd ma the sound of all 6 films will be good on blu-ray and if some of the sound issues will be fixed for episode 4 a new hope that will be a huge plus. Hopefully the original cuts are released on BD one day but if it's the speical editions I am ok with that. Anyways excited for the blu-ray release of all the star wars films in 2011 can't wait.

+1

I think it is safe to say (I hope!), whether SEs or original cuts, everyone following this thread is truly excited to see the quality in which these films will be presented. I know I am expecting the very best that blu-ray has to offer! There is real passion, on every side of these debates, over these films, and I feel that is the important point to remember, for everyone!

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Well, the movies looking more like the prequels can be really good or really bad depending on how you feel about the prequels...

I would also say that you can go either way with the Anakin ghost argument. It could make sense that he would revert to the form he had before he ever turned to the dark side. But you can also argue that he turned back to good before death, so his ghost would appropriately look like his pure undamaged old-man self just like Obi-Wan and Yoda. It isn't confusing, as some argue. He is clearly the same man you see when Luke takes his mask off. This another case of whether you want the film to tie back into the prequels or not.

Finally, the effects. I'm no fan of the Mos Eisley cgi addition. I get that he was trying to make the city busier, but what he did was add "hey look at this!" silly bits that distract from what is going on in the film-- I especially get annoyed with the giant creatures moving in front of the frame. As far as how the old effects hold up, I think they hold up better than the 1997 CGI of the Special Editions. I DO like some of the added X-Wing shots, and the SUBTLE changes like adding windows to Cloud City. If he had employed that level of restraint on all three films (like what Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner: The Final Cut) then I probably would actually prefer the Special Editions.

Fair enough. Everyone has a slightly different take on the changes. I just dont think they are as catastrophic as the "Im only gonna watch my Laserdisc version forever" crowd is making them out to be. The Eisley shots are good and bad. I dont mind the wider-city-scape shots but I could do without the creature additions and slapstick nonsense that he added.

The final battle from New Hope in its original form is getting a little dodgy in several parts. The dogfights are better and the clean up was neccessary.

The Anakin thing is another personal preference although I see what you are saying about Anakin changing back to good before death. I didnt think of that angle.

The prequels certainly have their moments that make you cringe. We can all agree there. But, they are all we got and I'll take them over not having any prequels. For the most part, they are enjoyable and have enough cool stuff to outweigh the crap. Actually, other than the hopelessly sappy love stuff and Jar Jar, nothing in the prequels annoys me that much.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

The prequels certainly have their moments that make you cringe. We can all agree there. But, they are all we got and I'll take them over not having any prequels. For the most part, they are enjoyable and have enough cool stuff to outweigh the crap. Actually, other than the hopelessly sappy love stuff and Jar Jar, nothing in the prequels annoys me that much.

Agreed.

What kills me is how all the PT haters will site the cringe moments, yet seem oblivious to all the ones in the OT. Sure, everybody's performances in the PT weren't Oscar calibur... Have they really watched the OT? There was a lot of bad acting & bad lines there as well. It's funny how all the faults that people find in the PT can very easily be transfered to the OT, yet they still use them to make a case for their hatred of one or the other (yes it goes the other way around too). I like both trilogies. I can find faults with each trilogy, but I can both acknowledge & accept the faults of each because I love the story, the characters and all that goes with the fictional universe that is Star Wars.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed.

What kills me is how all the PT haters will site the cringe moments, yet seem oblivious to all the ones in the OT. Sure, everybody's performances in the PT weren't Oscar calibur... Have they really watched the OT? There was a lot of bad acting & bad lines there as well. It's funny how all the faults that people find in the PT can very easily be transfered to the OT, yet they still use them to make a case for their hatred of one or the other (yes it goes the other way around too). I like both trilogies. I can find faults with each trilogy, but I can both acknowledge & accept the faults of each because I love the story, the characters and all that goes with the fictional universe that is Star Wars.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed.

What kills me is how all the PT haters will site the cringe moments, yet seem oblivious to all the ones in the OT. Sure, everybody's performances in the PT weren't Oscar calibur... Have they really watched the OT? There was a lot of bad acting & bad lines there as well. It's funny how all the faults that people find in the PT can very easily be transfered to the OT, yet they still use them to make a case for their hatred of one or the other (yes it goes the other way around too). I like both trilogies. I can find faults with each trilogy, but I can both acknowledge & accept the faults of each because I love the story, the characters and all that goes with the fictional universe that is Star Wars.

Indeed! Even as a kid, I always hated the droid scenes in ANH, TESB, and RotJ. I remembered that clearly when hating on Jar-Jar became so popular by the disgruntled fanboys. I still don't think prissy 3P0 is a more worthy character than slapstick Jar Jar. R2D2 is tolerable because he's just a bunch of beeps and squeaks.

Course, I didn't really like the peasants in the Hidden Fortress, either. I just wanna see Samurai and Jedi unleashing on the bad guys.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed.

What kills me is how all the PT haters will site the cringe moments, yet seem oblivious to all the ones in the OT. Sure, everybody's performances in the PT weren't Oscar calibur... Have they really watched the OT? There was a lot of bad acting & bad lines there as well. It's funny how all the faults that people find in the PT can very easily be transfered to the OT.

That is true. For me, though, I think some of the story of the PT was a bit weak, while I love the story of the OT, so some bits of bad acting are easier to let go of. Like you, though, I like both trilogies. Attack Of The Clones is the only movie I hated.

[Lincoln6Echo]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

That is true. For me, though, I think some of the story of the PT was a bit weak, while I love the story of the OT, so some bits of bad acting are easier to let go of. Like you, though, I like both trilogies. Attack Of The Clones is the only movie I hated.

To be fair, the PT was the story of Anakin's discovery (Ep. I), Anakin's coming-of-age (Ep. II) and Anakin's fall (Ep. III).

But what the PT did at its core was to set up the excellent CG animated Clone Wars series, which of course explores, in quite some detail, what was book-ended in Ep. II and Ep. III. I believe the Clone Wars series is the best thing to happen to the Star Wars universe in quite literally, its entire existance. It has given the rich mythology, that was just hinted at in the films, the room to breathe to tell a somewhat to very compelling story of what was just hinted at in a small throw-away line in the first film that started it all. "My father fought in the Clone Wars?" "Yes"

So while the OT has given many of a fanboy their source of fanboyism, but to me, the PT has given us some rich "filmed" backstory to what we all have always dreamed about. Now make no mistake, I'm a 1st Gen. Star Wars fan. Saw ANH at the theaters twice back in '77 and perhaps in '78 during a re-release. So, I'm not a OT hater or a PT lover, or vice versa. I'm just a fan, not a fanatic.

Take Star Trek for instance. The mythos started out as a campy '60s TV show, and morphed into a film series, to which then spawned four more TV series, before going back to film. It's really ashame that Star Wars didn't go to TV sometime in the late '80s or '90s like Star Trek did. Just took a few more films (and advancements in film (CGI) technology) to open up a timeline that could be done in episodic TV.

I'm hoping the live-action series gets off the ground whenever Clone Wars wraps up. Could be cool. And a great time to be a Star Wars fan.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

That is true. For me, though, I think some of the story of the PT was a bit weak, while I love the story of the OT, so some bits of bad acting are easier to let go of. Like you, though, I like both trilogies. Attack Of The Clones is the only movie I hated.

While I didn't truly hate any of the films, there were a couple that I really, really disliked. Clones wasn't one of them. I go back & forth as to which I like the least... Jedi or Phantom Menace. Here's how I look at the two of them...

Jedi: Pretty bad most of the way through. Jabba's Palace was little more than a glorified Muppet Show, with goofy slapstick at every turn. What can I even say about The Battle of Endor. Midgets & children in bad teddy bear costumes overthrow the mighty Empire with sticks & twigs. And let's not forget the greatest of all Ewok dialog... Ewok 1: That guy's wise. Ewok 2: Martin Short (WTF is that?). Harrison Ford & Carrie Fisher's performances were less than phoned-in and the Lando character was relegated to playing alongside a new alien character almost as goofy as Jar-Jar Binks. Both the Han and Lando characters were also completely wimped out beyond recognition. The only saving grace of Jedi was the battle & dialog between Luke, Vader & Palpatine. Luckily for RotJ, the throne room sequences were amongst, if not the best of the entire saga.

Phantom Menace: While I didn't find any particular aspect of it as horrible as 2/3 of Jedi, I couldn't find anything particularly great about it either. Looking at it strictly from a story standpoint, it was a virtual clone of Episode IV: A New Hope... Princess/Queen is kidnapped, Jedi finds a new trainee (named Skywalker) on Tatooine, they set out to rescue the Princess/Queen, they meet new allies along the way, the old Jedi Master is killed during the rescue, etc, etc. The only thing close to being as bad as the majority of Jedi was Jar-Jar Binks. But then again, considering the Ewoks, they kind of cancel each other out. Besides, Jar-Jar was just one character. I guess what I'm saying is that while I can't say a whole lot really bad about Phantom Menace, I can't say anything really good either.

Comparing the two, I get one that was complete crap but had an amazing saving grace, while the other wasn't as completely horrible but had no great moments either. So for me, it's a toss-up.

There's my take on my two least favorite episodes. Take notice there is one from each trilogy. Also note that I can't make up my mind, even after all these years, which I find to be the better/worse of the two.

[Vertigo2010]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

What kills me is how all the PT haters will site the cringe moments, yet seem oblivious to all the ones in the OT.

It's true. Anytime someone talks about the bad points of PT vs OT, I always bring up Chewbacca doing to Tarzan yell in ROTJ...