Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Maggot]

Even though the original movies didn't have the best acting, at least it was heartfelt and at times corny. That at least made it human and fun to watch. You felt attachment to those characters, taking them in like family. The prequels have none of that and you walk away feeling like you just watched a bunch of robots reciting lines.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Even though I will get the complete saga, the problems I have with the three prequels are:

1. Lucas's directing is wooden and sterile.

2. Natalie Portman's and Hayden Christensen's acting is wooden and sterile.

3. Way too much reliance on CGI.

4. All three prequels come off wooden and sterile compared to the original three.

5. Hayden Christensen......One of the worst actors I have ever had the misfortune of watching and absolutely the worst choice to play Vader.

Agreed.

[42041]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

Im not watching sw for the acting....can watch some snorefest like the english patient for that (even elaine from seinfeld couldnt stand it).

I watch sw to see things blownup.

Tons of movies have things blow up. That's not what captured my imagination watching the original films as a kid. Maybe it's just cause I'm not a kid anymore but the new ones didn't feel like anything special, but much more like the generic movies in which things blow up.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Except that for all the crap he's gotten across the years, I always found Mark Hamill to have brought a very welcomed gravitas and character dev across all 3 original films. Carrie Fischer was constantly playing pissed off (this part was taken over by Christensen in the prequel), and Ford was constantly snarky-joking at stuff (imo Ewan McGregor was a mix of Solo and Skywalker, part gravitas part snarkiness).
In many scenes Hamill showed melancholy, longing and worry (having his eyes toward the future rather than "where he is", as was said), and overall I think that made the orig. trilogy better (along with terrific space battles and stuff blowing up, of course).
Well, that, and the general lack (save the Ewoks and a burp by the Sarlacc) of completely stupid and /or dull characters (Jar Jar, but also the federation of merchants, child Anakin, teenage Anakin ... etc.), and stupid/ dull/ awkward situations (leaving your mother as a slave, being a 9 year old in a pod race, being a 9 year old in a star fighter taking on the empire .. oops, I mean the federation, etc. etc.)

In the original 3 movies Hamill is the one who tried his best. You have to give credit to any actor who spend half a movie acting only with a rubber muppet and sell it as real in my opinion.

In the prequel, I think in all 3 movies, Ewan McGreggor did the best he could as well. When you walk around in your PJ for three movie hacking in pieces robots, no matter what, it will never be look upon as a great acting performance.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

I've taken like 3 acting courses...we did shakespear and there was nothing on the stage...just a black background and one chair...the actors who sucked at acting to nothing were probably not very good actors on stage. noticed that? good actors can act to nothing..Lucas thought that challenging the actors, acting to nothing would make them better..but obviously, hayden is not a stage actor or probably has ever done shakespear.

Ian is a stage actor and he did great acting to nothing as he did everyday in his plays.

Lucas failed to see that these actors weren't ready to step back to method old style classical acting. But I think it kinda worked in the end.

Wow. Three acting classes. You are an authority on this subject for sure. I had no idea that doing Shakespear on stage was a pre-requiste for the job of playing Anakin Skywalker. Did Lucas not look at Hayden's resume?

Dude, the romance in ATOC was poorly done. The actors can only do so much with what they are given (this is a trend, see the OT as well). If its not done well on the page, its not going to be done well on the screen.

"My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.... if you are suffering as much as I am, PLEASE, tell me."

Who the F#$#$ says that?!?! You can claim he was going for Shakespear, but lets face it: THAT (if true) was a really bad idea.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

Did you ever read the scripts? there were great...the problem came when trying to take the script from print to screen. Poor direction? Nope. Lucas directed them very well...it was the actors that didn't listen and put in their own ideas..they pushed it.

I'm honestly not picking a fight. I just read that over and over and I just don't quite get what you mean. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.

You're saying
a) The script was great, but the end product on film wasn't so hot
b) The actors did what they wanted and there was no one controlling them
c) Lucas did a good job directing.

Now, I'm not bashing. Just.... I mean... Isn't controlling the actors and making the script into a film the two things a director does?

I'm not saying Lucas did a bad job. I just don't understand your logic.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Wow. Three acting classes. You are an authority on this subject for sure. I had no idea that doing Shakespear on stage was a pre-requiste for the job of playing Anakin Skywalker. Did Lucas not look at Hayden's resume?

Dude, the romance in ATOC was poorly done. The actors can only do so much with what they are given (this is a trend, see the OT as well). If its not done well on the page, its not going to be done well on the screen.

"My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.... if you are suffering as much as I am, PLEASE, tell me."

Who the F#$#$ says that?!?! You can claim he was going for Shakespear, but lets face it: THAT (if true) was a really bad idea.

It's not Shakespeare-- its a bad attempt to make something SOUND like Shakespeare. Calling Episode II "Shakespearian" is a crock.

And I agree the bad acting comes from Lucas' directing, not the actors. Lucas makes the actors stick to the script like the Bible, and doesn't give them any creative input at all. This has been mentioned many times by the actors-- I think it's even on the Empire of Dreams doc-- all Lucas wants the actors to do is read the words he wrote, and the only help he gives is "faster and more intense." That's why you have actors who have gone on to win Oscars giving terrible, wooden, unnatural performances.

[Blu Ray McHone]

I agree that alot of the dialogue in the PT is atrocious. But, in a way, that's why I like them, that cheesy dialogue, gives them kinda a 1930's type, serial resonance. Which obviously is what Lucas was shooting for, now whether or not he hit the target, that is up for discussion. To each, their own. You either love these films or you hate them, there is no in between.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Even though the original movies didn't have the best acting, at least it was heartfelt and at times corny. That at least made it human and fun to watch. You felt attachment to those characters, taking them in like family. The prequels have none of that and you walk away feeling like you just watched a bunch of robots reciting lines.

Something that I love (but makes me a little sad at the same time) is a wonderful feature on the Definitive Laserdisc set from back in the day. There is some old b/w footage of Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford doing, essentially, a table read of a scene from IV. They're just sitting in chairs holding scripts.

Just sitting there, there is so much emotion and investment in the material. In fact, they have more emotion and chemistry sitting there, than they do in the actual scene.

[starwarsagent]

The reason anakin and amidala don't seem to connect is because they aren't supposed too..thats why they seem distant. Its in purpose...Anakin is a rebellious punk and Amidala is royalty..they acted blindly...its like romeo and juliet.

They try to connect the same way Luke and Leia, but they just can't..as characters they are different....Anakin goes one way, amidala goes another..Anakin has points of views on politics....she disagrees..

they had nothing in common..only thing that was there was manipulation by anakin..his lust for attachment..

the acting is perfect as it shows their separation in ideologies. perfectly writen and acted out...

You didn't want them to have perfect chemistry..it's like a BF just doing things for the girl to get what he wants and using her...this is why the acting may appear wooden to some...remember that Anakin is on another level...thinking from the start about controlling everyone and getting what he wants..the entire AOTC love stuff is a lie..and acted as a lie.

hope you understand. I must sleep for another day.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It's one of the reason I find all this in depth look at these 6 movies to be funny. All 6 movies are not classic in the real sense, nothing deep, not major acting, no profound revelation, they are just darn fun to watch.

Exactly! Star Wars is brain dead popcorn flick. Watch to see space ships whizzing around (even though there's no sound in space) and lightsaber fights.

Lucas will be the first one to tell anyone that he hates directing and doesn't really like writing, either. He's a visual guy. As we've discussed before, after his falling out with the Guild and the "extortion" they extracted in fines to Kershner and himself (that just went to the lawyers), he quit the Guild and will roll over dead before he gives them another red penny. That leaves various foreign directors/writers and he's just not going to use them.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

The reason anakin and amidala don't seem to connect is because they aren't supposed too..thats why they seem distant. Its in purpose...Anakin is a rebellious punk and Amidala is royalty..they acted blindly...its like romeo and juliet.

They try to connect the same way Luke and Leia, but they just can't..as characters they are different....Anakin goes one way, amidala goes another..Anakin has points of views on politics....she disagrees..

they had nothing in common..only thing that was there was manipulation by anakin..his lust for attachment..

the acting is perfect as it shows their separation in ideologies. perfectly writen and acted out...

You didn't want them to have perfect chemistry..it's like a BF just doing things for the girl to get what he wants and using her...this is why the acting may appear wooden to some...remember that Anakin is on another level...thinking from the start about controlling everyone and getting what he wants..the entire AOTC love stuff is a lie..and acted as a lie.

hope you understand. I must sleep for another day.

Which seems more likely?

You are seeing what you want too see.

or

Everyone else on the planet is seeing what they want to see.

Regardless of what was intended, they didn't succeed in getting that across to the audience.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

The reason anakin and amidala don't seem to connect is because they aren't supposed too..thats why they seem distant. Its in purpose...Anakin is a rebellious punk and Amidala is royalty..they acted blindly...its like romeo and juliet.

They try to connect the same way Luke and Leia, but they just can't..as characters they are different....Anakin goes one way, amidala goes another..Anakin has points of views on politics....she disagrees..

they had nothing in common..only thing that was there was manipulation by anakin..his lust for attachment..

the acting is perfect as it shows their separation in ideologies. perfectly writen and acted out...

You didn't want them to have perfect chemistry..it's like a BF just doing things for the girl to get what he wants and using her...this is why the acting may appear wooden to some...remember that Anakin is on another level...thinking from the start about controlling everyone and getting what he wants..the entire AOTC love stuff is a lie..and acted as a lie.

hope you understand. I must sleep for another day.

"That is so wizard Annie!"

That is just about I all I have left on this one. Oh, and I don't want to hear anymore about Luke and Leia connecting... This isn't the Deliverence Forum...ahem...

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

The reason anakin and amidala don't seem to connect is because they aren't supposed too..thats why they seem distant. Its in purpose...Anakin is a rebellious punk and Amidala is royalty..they acted blindly...its like romeo and juliet.

They try to connect the same way Luke and Leia, but they just can't..as characters they are different....Anakin goes one way, amidala goes another..Anakin has points of views on politics....she disagrees..

they had nothing in common..only thing that was there was manipulation by anakin..his lust for attachment..

the acting is perfect as it shows their separation in ideologies. perfectly writen and acted out...

You didn't want them to have perfect chemistry..it's like a BF just doing things for the girl to get what he wants and using her...this is why the acting may appear wooden to some...remember that Anakin is on another level...thinking from the start about controlling everyone and getting what he wants..the entire AOTC love stuff is a lie..and acted as a lie.

hope you understand. I must sleep for another day.

... So you imply that he used the Force to make her fall for him? Cause that's yet another level of evil right there, Date Rape through Force use...
<sigh>
Even when you try explaining it, and with your "it's all meant this way", it still doesn't make any sense.
If you mean he just "convinced" her to think she "may" have feeling for him, even though everything would show her differently (huge age difference to start with, she was an adult when he was 9 years old, granted it seems her species if there is such a thing for the Naboo people "might" age differently), then it paints her as terminally stupid instead of hopelessly naive and romantic (which was bad enough for a monarch with the destiny of million people to care for).

Nope .. doesn't get any better I'm afraid.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Exactly! Star Wars is brain dead popcorn flick. Watch to see space ships whizzing around (even though there's no sound in space) and lightsaber fights.

Not really. Brain-dead action flicks have ZERO staying power. Star Wars endures because there is a great story underneath the explosions and light sabre battles. Its about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker, its about family, and its about classic good vs evil struggles. Star Wars also has great characters that grow and change throughout the series. I wouldnt call it "deep" but its a helluva lot more intriguing than just some action romp. Not even close.

Most action romps, like 90% of what comes out now is watched and forgotten in the same evening. Take for example the latest A-Team remake...you really think anyone will give a crap about that in 20 years? Hell, its already out of sight and out of mind right now. Why? Because its pointless, it has no characterization, and doesnt tell any type of interesting story at all. It just.....exists. Bleh.

Glad we are clear on this....

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

AOTC was a great scifi film. I loved the coruscant chase, the arena batle, the geonosis battle, the dooku vs Yoda scene..it was an incredible movie. Or do you think clash of the titans was a better movie?

People didn't like the Shakespearian style of acting in AOTC because people are uneducated today..they do not like manners and respect. Anakin and Padme relationship is taken out from shakespear and the 50s style of acting...it's not natural or realistic...it's supposed to be stylish...I didn't have a problem with it.

People who do not like that type of acting are morons and I would advice them to take a classical acting class.

Just because someone didn't like something that you did doesn't make them morons. Like someone else said, you talk about manners and then go out and insult people. I didn't like most of the acting because I thought it was dull; sounded like they were reading off cue cards.
Like I've said before, I don't hate all the prequels, I just think they could have been much better.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

People who do not like that type of acting are morons and I would advice them to take a classical acting class.

I have been taking classical acting classes fairly consistently since 1994. I don't like that type of acting. And by that type of acting, I mean poorly directed acting. I know exactly what you're talking about, because I took an introductory acting 101 class 15 years ago too and thought I knew everything about acting. There is more to Shakespearean acting than speaking stiltedly. Watch "Henry V" by Olivier and we'll have a conversation.

DISCLAIMER: I would never, ever, claim that my years of training made me an expert. I am simply responding to the request to take three (or more) classes to be as wizened as starwarsagent; which I have.

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

The reason anakin and amidala don't seem to connect is because they aren't supposed too..thats why they seem distant. Its in purpose ...Anakin is a rebellious punk and Amidala is royalty..they acted blindly...its like romeo and juliet.

It's not. Because characters that don't connect with each other don't connect with us either. It's called boring. Are there exceptions, when a skilled filmmaker or playwright has written characters that don't connect to serve the greater relationship or story? Of course. I personally do not count this among them.

What Mick Napier once said of comedy, I'll say of drama

Some things are emotionally moving on purpose.
Some things are not emotionally moving on purpose.
Far too many things are not emotionally moving, not on purpose.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Not really. Brain-dead action flicks have ZERO staying power. Star Wars endures because there is a great story underneath the explosions and light sabre battles.

Agreed, fully! I hope my recent posts have not been interpreted to imply that the films do not have a story of redemption and adventure that keeps them in our minds; particularly the ideas drawn from mythology. They are wonderful times.

[ObiWanShinobi]

Originally Posted by Maggot View Post
Even though the original movies didn't have the best acting, at least it was heartfelt and at times corny. That at least made it human and fun to watch. You felt attachment to those characters, taking them in like family. The prequels have none of that and you walk away feeling like you just watched a bunch of robots reciting lines.

I agree. The actors in Epsiodes IV, V, VI had that spark/chemistry that made the adventures all the more exciting and fun to watch. I didn't get that feeling with the prequel trilogy...not until Episode III where I saw glimpses of it.

[rocinante]

I see some are actually find ways to like the dialogue in the prequels. I wish I could myself, but its just so awful, I cant find any way to bring myself to want to watch those movies.

I love scenes like when Padme and Anakin are in the middle of a tender moment, and she stands up and says something like "please, stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume!"

So embarrassingly bad.