Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Exile]

Originally Posted by elliotroad

I can feel the excitement in this thread growing for this release! I know there are some that are still not too excited about the new changes, but I would encourage you to just enjoy these films for what they are - ENTERTAINMENT!

We could all use an escape, and I know for my family and I anyway, next weekend, Star Wars Episode's 1-6 are going to provide the perfect escape/distraction from our busy lives.

The only thing that has kept me going everyday without going bonkers is reading this thread with all the discussions, very interesting!

Goodnight (or good morning) all,
elliotroad

The problem is the prequels aren't entertaining. The characters aren't interesting, nobody behaves rationally, the lightsaber fights are choreographed dance routines, every background is clearly fake greenscreen, etc.

[Merlinpants]

New article showing a new video on the Blu special features:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/...ve-cloud-city/

Originally Posted by Shallow_

If one really Loves Starwars, then yes it should and does matter.

They are 100% Starwars films, all 6 of em, and those who seek to keep dividing them and help substain the disliking for the so-called prequels can not be considered Starwars fans imo.

Interesting point of view.

If you look at the history of cinema, studios/creators always go too far once they have a successful movie. In the end, the diminishing returns demand they stop, or sufficient time has passed that the interest levels to see a new version eradicates how bad the last one was.

Star Wars is a prime example. ROTJ was the weakest by far of the original trilogy. Leave it 16 years and bring out TPM for huge box office only for it to dwindle away again as the film was sub-par (in some peoples view). It was the Star Wars fans from the OT that helped that happen. The PT fans did not exist.

Examples:

The Godfather - 1 & 2 are cinema classics, 3 not
Die Hard - The law of diminshing returns applies until you reach 4 where we hope it stops
Jaws - Franchise cash in that has ended with the atrocious 4
James Bond - So many misses it defies logic including the latest
Alien - 1 & 2 are classics, 3 & 4 best forgotten but again reboot incoming
Spiderman - 1 & 2 great, 3 not, reboot coming
Batman (Burton era) - best not mentioned
Raiders of the lost ark - Wow, returns with KOCS and everyone wished it hadn't
Back to the future - Original is one of the greatest scripts ever written, but then meh
Blade - The original defied belief and sparked the current super hero franchises, 2 & 3 best forgotten
Lethal Weapon - Just wow, and then just well.......
Blues Brothers - Classic followed by made for TV
Ghostbusters - Greatest comedy ever, followed by greatest travesty
Mad Max - Need I say more?

I could go on and please remember these are IMHO. The point I am making is how flawed your statement is. Because I don't like any of the sequels/reboots/prequels of the films above, I cannot like the originals? If the orginals weren't such defining films, the sequels would not exist. Being a Star Wars fan might be restricted for some to just the original film (ANH) and no other, like Die Hard fans or Alien fans or more so, Jaws fans. What comes after does not and will not diminish your love of what came first.

Star Wars is exactly the same. Even in the OT, people wince at ROTJ. Does your argument hold true then that you are not a fan pre-1999 if you did not think ROTJ was much cop?

The prequel trilogy was demanded by the public, but more so from toy manufacturers and accountants. They are good films, but in the Godfather 3 mould, they are compared against outstanding films, and that is why they receive such derision, not only from FANS, but critics alike.

When the benchmark is set so high, rarely do sequels/prequels achieve the level again. You can count them on one hand. It makes you no less of a James Bond fan if you think View to a kill was a goofball mess, it makes you no less of a fan of the original if you think Alien 4 should never be broadcast again.....anywhere, it makes you no less of a fan of Jaws if you laugh for a full 90 minutes at Jaws the revenge etc etc etc.

Clearly you are passionate about the Star Wars of your generation as we are about the Star Wars of our generation. We are both fans from a different perspective, and treasue the films we grew up with above all others.

My Father loves Dr No, I love Casino Royale. We are BOTH fans. You love the PT, I love the OT, we are still BOTH fans.

Thanks

In fact, to make it even easier, do you fall into the following?

Fans usually have a strong enough interest that some changes in their lifestyles are made to accommodate devotion to the focal object. As well, fans have a desire for external involvement – they are motivated to demonstrate their involvement with the area of interest through certain behaviors (attending conventions, posting online, etc.). Fans often have a "wish to acquire" material objects related to the area of interest, such as a baseball hit by a famous slugger or a used guitar pick from their musical hero. As well, some fans have a desire for social interaction with other fans. This again may take many forms, from casual conversation, e-mail, chat rooms, and electronic mailing lists to regular face-to-face meetings such as fan club meetings and organized conventions.

I guess just being here and posting makes us ALL Star Wars fans

[Bageara]

I haven't been following this thread. I had heard Lucas had been tinkering with the OT again but didn't realize how much, he's gone to far this time, sadly it's forced me to cancel my preorder

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by easyrider

Complete Saga buyers -

When you get your hands on the box set, what order will you be watching?


* 1-6 in order?
* 4-6, then 1-3?

Still trying to decide viewing sequence myself

I'll probably watch 1-6.

[Show spoiler](But I really want to see 4-6 first to see how they look)

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Personally, I've long thought that outfit was inappropriate, ever since I was old enough to understand the meaning of it. I mean, some of Jabba's other slave girls are wearing more than Carrie in that part of the film. It doesn't make much sense. Plus, I think its the only time in the whole saga we see a woman in something that revealing, so its inconsistent as well.

Originally Posted by Davidius

Look, don't give him (GL) any ideas. I'm surprised he hasn't coverd Oola the slave girl that gets fed to the Rancor since she's only wearing a fishnet top.

It's not just the fishnet; one of her breast actually pops out of it .

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by Torgon

It's not just the fishnet; one of her breast actually pops out of it .

WOW, wth? When is this scene with the breast exposing awesomeness going on??

[Dino Last]

Originally Posted by Shallow_

If one really Loves Starwars, then yes it should and does matter.

They are 100% Starwars films, all 6 of em, and those who seek to keep dividing them and help substain the disliking for the so-called prequels can not be considered Starwars fans imo.

I like the prequels, especially Revenge of the Sith which I like more than Jedi (Especially now, thanks for ruining my favourite scene George) but you can't say people who do not like the prequels are not Star Wars fans. What next, if you don't like the CGI show Clone Wars, you are not a Star Wars fan? or if you don't like the movie an Ewok Adventure you're not a Star Wars fan?

[skyofcrack]

The new Yoda looks real good in 1080p I have to say. Watching the old puppet now is actually laughable. Very good change.

[Bukax42]

Originally Posted by Shallow_

They are 100% Starwars films, all 6 of em, and those who seek to keep dividing them and help substain the disliking for the so-called prequels can not be considered Starwars fans imo.

What does it men being "fan"? Loving absolutely everything with SW logo on it?

I'm a fan of OT, it doesn't matter what I think about prequels and other SW things.

[RudyC]

i was dissing the special edition OT a while back... but im giving in to my anger and buying the complete saga

[wildphantom]

Originally Posted by Shallow_

If one really Loves Starwars, then yes it should and does matter.

They are 100% Starwars films, all 6 of em, and those who seek to keep dividing them and help substain the disliking for the so-called prequels can not be considered Starwars fans imo.

Really?.. So because I think the prequels aren't even on the same planet of quality in any respect you don't consider me a Star Wars fan?

I love the original trilogy. The second one is one of my favourite films of all time. I enjoy the prequels, but am not deluded enough to let the massive flaws in all three slide. If anything the tone and style of the films is so far removed by and large from the originals that people have every right to say they're not what they deem 'proper Star Wars' films.

Again, I'm not dissing anyone that loves all of them - but I certainly don't love the prequels, but can still enjoy them. There are parts in all three that are fantastic, but equally parts that are dreadful.

Menace - Jar Jar Binks - a triumph for CG - is, to me, the most annoying character in the entire saga. Many agreed, and Lucas responded with his relative cutting of him out of II and III.
The tone of the film in particular is deeply serious at times, which makes the Lucas dialogue sound really cringe-worthy all over the movie. Much of the tone established because the human characters are deeply dull. Qui-Gon, young Obi-Wan, Padme etc (these bare no resemblance to the fun afternoon serial spirit of the characters we loved in the originals.) where was the sarcasm? The side-kick that pointed out how ridiculous everything was? It badly needed a Han Solo like character, and instead we got Binks. Lucas recognised he needed humour, except the humour through Binks failed miserably.

Jake Lloyd's performance is all over the place, and, whilst charming in places, isn't really up to what it should have been. Anakin, I feel, is too young in Episode I for the connection between him and Padme to be established in the film.
Villains - Maul was genius. Underused, but fabulous. The Darth Sidious set-up is written well.

Clones - much of what was wrong with Menace was considered and addressed. Binks pretty much gone. Most interestingly Obi-Wan became that sarcastic character the first film was missing. It all of a sudden felt a little more like Star Wars. Anakin, wreckless and in some ways reminding us of Luke. The film is paced better and is much more exciting as a piece.

That said, it still contains the worst stuff in the trilogy. Padme and Anakin's romance perhaps the worst handled romance in the history of cinema. Nauseating, cringe-worthy. Just astonishingly bad and gets worse the more i watch it. Compare this with how Han and Leia get together - it was all there for Lucas to mirror and he failed here miserably. Feels all forced and there's no chemistry. No fault of the actors, its just badly written.
It rocks Clones actually. Every other aspect of it works pretty well. The Kamino detective segment in particular is terrific. Yet every time the film soars, we're then dragged back to the romance.

The final battle I don't like that much. Full of jedi I don't know, or care about. The lightsaber showdown doesn't hold a candle to the episode I finale.
Overall it's much more enjoyable as a film, but when it's bad - it's shockingly bad.

Sith - easily the most successful effort. It's a good film from beginning to end. No real complaints, save that it's in such a rush to get where it's going I can't help but wish they had another episode to spread it into.
The area which really doesn't work is Anakin's sudden change to the dark side. It is sudden and it's not really convincing. His reasons for changing are fine, they're just not given enough time. I wish Lucas had written it differently. Perhaps had him becoming Vader, maybe in the second one. Going back and forth doing jobs for Palpatine. Wrestling with who he was and then completely succumbing towards the end of part three. Drew McWeeney discusses this in his latest podcast. Suggests maybe Anakin could have found the Vader suit in Clones. Lots of interesting ideas that could have worked much better.
That's really my only major gripe with Sith. It feels like it was cut from a higher quality cloth to Episodes I and II.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

New article showing a new video on the Blu special features:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/...ve-cloud-city/



Interesting point of view.

If you look at the history of cinema, studios/creators always go too far once they have a successful movie. In the end, the diminishing returns demand they stop, or sufficient time has passed that the interest levels to see a new version eradicates how bad the last one was.

Star Wars is a prime example. ROTJ was the weakest by far of the original trilogy. Leave it 16 years and bring out TPM for huge box office only for it to dwindle away again as the film was sub-par (in some peoples view). It was the Star Wars fans from the OT that helped that happen. The PT fans did not exist.

Examples:

The Godfather - 1 & 2 are cinema classics, 3 not
Die Hard - The law of diminshing returns applies until you reach 4 where we hope it stops
Jaws - Franchise cash in that has ended with the atrocious 4
James Bond - So many misses it defies logic including the latest
Alien - 1 & 2 are classics, 3 & 4 best forgotten but again reboot incoming
Spiderman - 1 & 2 great, 3 not, reboot coming
Batman (Burton era) - best not mentioned
Raiders of the lost ark - Wow, returns with KOCS and everyone wished it hadn't
Back to the future - Original is one of the greatest scripts ever written, but then meh
Blade - The original defied belief and sparked the current super hero franchises, 2 & 3 best forgotten
Lethal Weapon - Just wow, and then just well.......
Blues Brothers - Classic followed by made for TV
Ghostbusters - Greatest comedy ever, followed by greatest travesty
Mad Max - Need I say more?

I have to disagree with you on several of the films you mentioned. (What's wrong, for example, with Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome? Die Hard with a Vengeance? I also don't think you can compare Star Wars with, say, Jaws because Jaws was a self-contained movie. The sequels were made purely to cash in, no artistic merit whatsoever. It was Lucas's choice to expand the story to a further 3 films.

(There are other examples: the Hannibal Lecter movies, JP, and the Terminator "franchise." T1 & T2 were top-notch. The follow ups...best not to think about them). There's also the Matrix, which was one great film followed by two excruciatingly bad sequels. In this case the directors tried to continue developing the story, but I doubt Matrix reloaded & Matrix Revolutions were originally planned. And incidentally, rumor has it that they planned three more films (!)

[Shin sam]

Can someone who has this set and watched it and knows Star Wars inside out, please list all the new changes. I can't find anything on the net at all except for the "Nooo" etc. I can't wait for this set, yes some of the changes aren't great but Star Wars in 1080p, changes and all, can't be THAT bad.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by Bukax42

What does it men being "fan"? Loving absolutely everything with SW logo on it?

I'm a fan of OT, it doesn't matter what I think about prequels and other SW things.

Really? The fan discussion again?

For me, it´s pretty easy to answer. If you consider yourself a "fan" of Star Wars you have to AT LEAST like all six movies of the saga. I love all the Episodes roughly alike and I love Star Wars. I´d hesitate to call myself a "fan" because it has been given a bad name in the last 15 years.

[octagon]

Hmmm...I love two of them, like two of them and think two of them completely bite.

I wonder if that averages out to being a fan.

Golly, I hope it does.

[marlon dingle]

Originally Posted by Shin sam

Can someone who has this set and watched it and knows Star Wars inside out, please list all the new changes. I can't find anything on the net at all except for the "Nooo" etc. I can't wait for this set, yes some of the changes aren't great but Star Wars in 1080p, changes and all, can't be THAT bad.

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/a...-part-one.html

This is a pretty good guide to the changes in A New Hope.

[Shin sam]

Originally Posted by marlon dingle

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/a...-part-one.html

This is a pretty good guide to the changes in A New Hope.

Thanks for the link, but the list is only of the 2004 DVD set not the changes for the Blu Ray set.

[marlon dingle]

Originally Posted by Shin sam

Thanks for the link, but the list is only of the 2004 DVD set not the changes for the Blu Ray set.

Sorry about that. I looked at this on Monday, and it definitey had the Blu-Ray versions on there, remember seeing things like the Rocks infront of R2D2 and also the Obi-Wan Dragon Call. I'm guessing they've been told to take it down until it's been released.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by marlon dingle

Sorry about that. I looked at this on Monday, and it definitey had the Blu-Ray versions on there, remember seeing things like the Rocks infront of R2D2 and also the Obi-Wan Dragon Call. I'm guessing they've been told to take it down until it's been released.

Yeah, I saw it too. They took it out again because they want to wait until the films are released.

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by NYorker

I have to disagree with you on several of the films you mentioned. (What's wrong, for example, with Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome? Die Hard with a Vengeance? I also don't think you can compare Star Wars with, say, Jaws because Jaws was a self-contained movie. The sequels were made purely to cash in, no artistic merit whatsoever. It was Lucas's choice to expand the story to a further 3 films.

(There are other examples: the Hannibal Lecter movies, JP, and the Terminator "franchise." T1 & T2 were top-notch. The follow ups...best not to think about them). There's also the Matrix, which was one great film followed by two excruciatingly bad sequels. In this case the directors tried to continue developing the story, but I doubt Matrix reloaded & Matrix Revolutions were originally planned. And incidentally, rumor has it that they planned three more films (!)

Point taken, as I said it is personal opinion on each film, but all I was illustrating was the absurdity of his Fan argument. You can be a fan of anything without liking everything about it. Don't forget, Star Wars ANH would have been a stand alone movie if not for its success. It is a fully contained movie, in fact the only one of all 6 that can be classed as such.

Clearly others have a different and conflicting viewpoint of what being a fan of a film means

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Really? The fan discussion again?

For me, it´s pretty easy to answer. If you consider yourself a "fan" of Star Wars you have to AT LEAST like all six movies of the saga. I love all the Episodes roughly alike and I love Star Wars. I´d hesitate to call myself a "fan" because it has been given a bad name in the last 15 years.