Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Grand Bob]

I guess I've been unaware as to the degree that the PT is defective. I can understand why someone would be critical of Jake Lloyd's or Hayden Christensen's performance if this was Hamlet, but a space fantasy that is supposed to be amenable to general audiences?

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I guess I've been unaware as to the degree that the PT is defective. I can understand why someone would be critical of Jake Lloyd's or Hayden Christensen's performance if this was Hamlet, but a space fantasy that is supposed to be amenable to general audiences?

Shockingly, horrendous acting doesn't magically become bearable once you set it in space. Keeanu Reeves would have a condo on the moon if this were true.

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I can understand why someone would be critical of Jake Lloyd's or Hayden Christensen's performance if this was Hamlet, but a space fantasy that is supposed to be amenable to general audiences?

I think we all got spoiled by Empire Strikes Back. If that one was plagued by some bad performances in a few scenes, people would be more forgiving of the crummy acting in the prequels.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I guess I've been unaware as to the degree that the PT is defective. I can understand why someone would be critical of Jake Lloyd's or Hayden Christensen's performance if this was Hamlet, but a space fantasy that is supposed to be amenable to general audiences?

While I sort of agree with you, in principale one should expect good performances in every movie one see...

that being said....

....I would understand really all the backlash on the prequels if for some reason I did not the the original in the same silly style. The main trouble while most of us see just how silly the original were, most fans see them as some sort of revelation that came from the higher being in the sky and can't find no fault in them as long as they are not special editions, then they become silly like the prequels

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by mrr1

I think we all got spoiled by Empire Strikes Back. If that one was plagued by some bad performances in a few scenes, people would be more forgiving of the crummy acting in the prequels.

You consider Ian McDiarmid and Liam Neeson's acting to be crummy? What about Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor?

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Jedi prospects are supposed to be taken from birth so they have no attachment to their families.

Kinda freaky too, when you stop to think about it. They're expected to show unconditional love toward others, yet they're practically stolen from their homes as infants?

Anakin was too strongly attached to his Mother, which is why he was considered too old in TPM.

It wasn't just Shmi that Anakin was attached to, although she was definitely one of the strongest parts of his life. Being a slave, Anakin had likely learned to fear or hate any kind of major change at a very young age. When his mom says, "he knows nothing of greed", that's not entirely true. He's kind, generous, and has no real concerns for financial reward, but he clings tightly onto his emotions and circumstances. Over the next ten years, he probably clashed with Obi-Wan and the Council numerous times, over all sorts of issues, explaining his current state at the beginning of Episode II.

Luke's situation was quite different because even though he was 19 or 20, he had no attachments.

He was attached to his aunt and uncle, Biggs, and Ben. He wasn't raised as a slave, so he didn't grow up with the same kinds of issues Anakin did, but he still had a temper.

He never knew his parents and his legal guardians were murdered.

His anger at this comes out very clearly in his fight with Vader on Bespin. Lucas even details as much, saying that at first, Luke thought he was fighting the murderer of both Ben and Anakin, who had tortured Leia, frozen Han, and was indirectly responsible for the tragedies on Hoth. Even though the scene doesn't explicitly mention it, I think there'd probably be something inside Luke regarding those who raised him as well.

Plus given the situation, Luke was the last hope to defeat Vader and the Emperor. What other choice did Yoda have?

Leia; he even implies as much himself. As for the whole "too old" remark, I took it as a joke, until the PT explained it further.

Fatigue from duel? I dunno. Again, there's wiggle room here but I have wondered about this one myself.

Well, there's definitely evidence for it. Qui-Gon is visibly tired after his first fight with Maul; Obi-Wan does a super-jump at the second fight, but has to run normally thereafter; both he and Anakin show signs of exhaustion on Mustafar. Luke almost looks like he's going to faint, when he tries to rise the X-Wing on Dagobah, and Yoda himself is struggling in the last film (though that's probably due more to his age).

[HDPlasma]

Originally Posted by Zuiun

I'm as much of an inconsistency nitpicker as the next fanboy, but the funny thing is, I never had a problem with the Palpatine transformation.

For me, I never thought it was the lightning, per se, that transformed him. I viewed it as a battle of wills between him and Mace. It wasn't just lightning against lightsaber, but Windu was also using all of his Force might to try to direct the energy back at Palps.

Meanwhile, Palps is using everything HE'S got to direct it at Mace. Trouble is, Mace is a pretty powerful MoFo and to beat him, Palps has to pretty much sacrifice himself to the corrupting power of the Dark Side. You can't direct that much energy of Dark Side Force without consequences -- in this case, all of that Force energy warps and distorts Palps.

[El_Jay]

Just watch this scene:

[Show spoiler]

The Final Battle - Darth Vader VS. Obi-Wan - Episode III - YouTube

By the end, man, Ewan is really putting on a good performance. That is genuine emotion the man is mustering. It's not Shakespeare, sure, but in the context it's awesome. It actually wrings emotion out of the viewer. Every line Hayden speaks just sounds so stilted and amateurish. Think of how much better the scene would play out if the guy acting opposite Ewan was just as emotional.

"If you aren't with me... then you're my enemy". It doesn't even sound like he's sure what the word enemy means.

Then we have Ewan: "You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to The Force, not leave it in Darkness... you were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!" That is legitimately good stuff.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

If Harrison Ford had been wearing that bikini instead, Jabba wouldn't have gotten any work done. Fact.

Here you go, buddy:

[Show spoiler]

[HonestJohn]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

For me it's Natalie and it's not even really close.

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

You consider Ian McDiarmid and Liam Neeson's acting to be crummy? What about Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor?

Not at all. They all did a top-notch job as far as I am concerned.

I said people would be more forgiving of the crummy acting in the prequels (i.e. the crummy parts) if Empire was tainted with some crappy acting as well.

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Here you go, buddy:

[Show spoiler]

Man crush confirmed.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by mrr1

Not at all. They all did a top-notch job as far as I am concerned.

I said people would be more forgiving of the crummy acting in the prequels (i.e. the crummy parts) if Empire was tainted with some crappy acting as well.

Perhaps, but that's truly cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. I think if Empire was plagued with some suck the whole SW world would be a little less popular and beloved. That movie is just so goddamn good.

[goldenrod]

While talking with a friend at the job, I start wondering this: He, like many people really hates the prequels, and once he'll get the set, he'll start with the OT then finish with the PT.

I asked him, why finish with the movies you hate. Start with them instead and finish with those you prefer.

[brps3]

I ordered it through Barnes and Noble and with my discounts came to $75. Should be here in a day or 2.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by mrr1

I think we all got spoiled by Empire Strikes Back. If that one was plagued by some bad performances in a few scenes, people would be more forgiving of the crummy acting in the prequels.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

....I would understand really all the backlash on the prequels if for some reason I did not the the original in the same silly style. The main trouble while most of us see just how silly the original were, most fans see them as some sort of revelation that came from the higher being in the sky and can't find no fault in them as long as they are not special editions, then they become silly like the prequels

Agree with that, and I also have issues with the PT, e.g. Jar-Jar and the young Anakin are easy targets for condemation, and Anakin is far too easily converted to the Dark Side in "Sith". However, IMO the technical execution and good aspects of these movies outweigh the bad, and (OT notwithstanding) they are still at the top of their genre for sheer entertainment value.

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Perhaps, but that's truly cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. I think if Empire was plagued with some suck the whole SW world would be a little less popular and beloved. That movie is just so goddamn good.

I agree in full. Star Wars fans have been spoiled by 'Empire'.

Not even other Star Wars movies, some of which are really, really good, seem to come close to 'Empire'.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by goldenrod

While talking with a friend at the job, I start wondering this: He, like many people really hates the prequels, and once he'll get the set, he'll start with the OT then finish with the PT.

I asked him, why finish with the movies you hate. Start with them instead and finish with those you prefer.

I watched them in chronological order this time, for the first time. And it ruined the OT in a lot of ways. It has to be them first or the whole thing isn't as effective.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Every line Hayden speaks just sounds so stilted and amateurish. Think of how much better the scene would play out if the guy acting opposite Ewan was just as emotional. "If you aren't with me... then you're my enemy". It doesn't even sound like he's sure what the word enemy means.

That's the point. By the time the duel happens on Mustafar, Anakin's grown so cold and angry, he's lost almost all control over his sanity. I thought he portrayed the character very well, in both films. I remember seeing "Sith" on the big screen, and seeing Anakin rave and scream at Obi-Wan almost gave me chills. People say that Anakin's a spoiled child, and to an extent they're right. But they forget that its supposed to be that way. The only thing Vader knows by then is fear and anger, and Hayden delivers for sure. He even says he wanted to do that in "Clones", but Lucas kept reigning him in.

[goldenrod]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

I watched them in chronological order this time, for the first time. And it ruined the OT in a lot of ways. It has to be them first or the whole thing isn't as effective.

either way, both trilogies spoil the other