Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Sith]

Originally Posted by georgec

Which is why it's best to not become engaged in those discussions. Nobody's going to change anyone else's mind. We all have our opinions on SW, Lucas, revisions, etc. If it's become quite clear what those few users are doing, why continue to fuel the fire? I put an equal amount of blame on people who let themselves become baited constantly.

This thread has been reduced to irrational extremes instead of allowing fruitful, moderate discussion of different opinions. I guess that's what happens when everyone is so passionate about these movies one way or another. But it's a shame any thoughtful criticism of the PT, SE changes, or blu-rays is so poorly received.

Now let's all have some Jawa Juice and chill out.

I think it's the opposite. Most people don't really like the script changes. Some of the cg changes don't get the same hate. But Han not shooting first, the add NO at the end of Jedi, while I personally don't really care so much that it would effect me buying or enjoying these movies, most of the forum doesn't seem to like the changes.

As for disliking the PT, I would say it's about 50/50 here, 1/2 like, 1/2 don't.
I personally love all 6 movies, but if you don't like the PT, that's cool.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Hey! This thread is at 1972 pages! My birth year!

[Sith]

Originally Posted by tigertron

More than likely as the traditional Sith rule is that there can only be two Sith at a time because they keep betraying each other.

Anakin was already planning on betraying Sidious when he told Padmé they could both rule the galaxy instead.

I guess if Anakin got really powerful then Sidious would have to find a new apprentice and replace him - it just so happens that when Vader gets weak, Sidious focuses his attention on Luke as an able bodied apprentice.

The Sith "Rule of two". is enforced so that there are not enough less powerful Sith to rise up together and overthrow a Sith Master but not have the teachings to individually excel.

The apprentice will always one day have to fight the Master, it is the way of the Sith, it is encouraged by the Master. It ensures that the Master is always the strongest and has the most knowledge to pass down.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Sith

I think it's the opposite. Most people don't really like the script changes. Some of the cg changes don't get the same hate. But Han not shooting first, the add NO at the end of Jedi, while I personally don't really care so much that it would effect me buying or enjoying these movies, most of the forum doesn't seem to like the changes.

As for disliking the PT, I would say it's about 50/50 here, 1/2 like, 1/2 don't.
I personally love all 6 movies, but if you don't like the PT, that's cool.

And it's quite cool you love all the movies, good sir! We all have the right to enjoy SW as we wish.

For me that means the unaltered theatrical versions of the OT. I had moderate hopes for the PT. When I was a kid I read about that Anakin/Obi-Wan duel that took place in a lava environment and thought it would be amazing to see. The PT just doesn't match the emotion and charm of the OT. It can stand on its own but the "one saga" stuff that Lucas wants everyone to accept is a bit much for me.

One example I like is that of Mos Eisley in ANH. It's this odd, dangerous place in a barren wasteland. Rogue travelers, shady characters, etc. You get a sense of the diversity in the SW galaxy. Contrast that with the PT which seems to cram as many different weird looking aliens and imagery into so many shots. Sometimes less is more. But if that's what Lucas wanted to show, then more power to him.

I don't think anyone that likes the PT is less of a fan or any of that garbage. I just think that people who make claims about others not understanding SW, not being true fans, etc. need to be more mature and accept there are other valid opinions than their own. That goes for all parties.

Of course, you're not a true fan unless your favorite SW movie is the Holiday Special.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by georgec

And it's quite cool you love all the movies, good sir! We all have the right to enjoy SW as we wish.

For me that means the unaltered theatrical versions of the OT. I had moderate hopes for the PT. When I was a kid I read about that Anakin/Obi-Wan duel that took place in a lava environment and thought it would be amazing to see. The PT just doesn't match the emotion and charm of the OT. It can stand on its own but the "one saga" stuff that Lucas wants everyone to accept is a bit much for me.

One example I like is that of Mos Eisley in ANH. It's this odd, dangerous place in a barren wasteland. Rogue travelers, shady characters, etc. You get a sense of the diversity in the SW galaxy. Contrast that with the PT which seems to cram as many different weird looking aliens and imagery into so many shots. Sometimes less is more. But if that's what Lucas wanted to show, then more power to him.

I don't think anyone that likes the PT is less of a fan or any of that garbage. I just think that people who make claims about others not understanding SW, not being true fans, etc. need to be more mature and accept there are other valid opinions than their own. That goes for all parties.

Of course, you're not a true fan unless your favorite SW movie is the Holiday Special.

I think the OT is alot easier to understand and therefore has more fans. Alot of the stuff going on in the PT is underneath the surface so much that not everyone gets it.

[xxtomboxx]

Has anyone had any troubles with the star wars blu rays yet? I just picked up a new sony player as well as the complete collection and noticed that the animated transitions between menus stutter, skip and even freeze for a bit before finally finishing. The firmware is up to date and I've tried the discs on two different players but it's always the same story. It's not just one disc either. I tried the prequel archive disc as well as the OT archive disc and both have laggy animated menus. I highly doubt that the discs are damaged, since it's unlikely that both are damaged in the exact same way that would result in only having laggy menus and no other problems.

Anyone else having troubles?

I guess I should also clarify that the movies play wonderfully. Well, I've only sat down to watch TPM so far but I've had no trouble watching the film or any of the archive footage that I've seen. It's strictly a problem with the animated menu transitions.

Thanks for any help!

--T

[Sith]

Originally Posted by xxtomboxx

Has anyone had any troubles with the star wars blu rays yet? I just picked up a new sony player as well as the complete collection and noticed that the animated transitions between menus stutter, skip and even freeze for a bit before finally finishing. The firmware is up to date and I've tried the discs on two different players but it's always the same story. It's not just one disc either. I tried the prequel archive disc as well as the OT archive disc and both have laggy animated menus. I highly doubt the damage is exactly the same that it would allow for the same problem on both discs.

Anyone else having troubles?

I guess I should also clarify that the movies play wonderfully. Well, I've only sat down to watch TPM so far but I've had no trouble watching the film or any of the archive footage that I've seen. It's strictly a problem with the animated menu transitions.

Thanks for any help!

--T

Sorry, I was to busy getting beer and popcorn before all six movies to notice.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Sith

I think the OT is alot easier to understand and therefore has more fans. Alot of the stuff going on in the PT is underneath the surface so much that not everyone gets it.

I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.

There's really nothing to get beneath the surface in the PT. People dislike the PT because (in their opinion) it's poorly executed on all levels - writing, dialogue, plotting, pacing, visual overkill, etc.

This brings me to another point - it's often easier to dismiss others' viewpoints because they don't "get it" as a sort of defense mechanism. I'm not picking on Sith but simply pointing out there are many ways to enjoy SW in various iterations/forms.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by georgec

I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.

There's really nothing to get beneath the surface in the PT. People dislike the PT because (in their opinion) it's poorly executed on all levels - writing, dialogue, plotting, pacing, visual overkill, etc.

This brings me to another point - it's often easier to dismiss others' viewpoints because they don't "get it" as a sort of defense mechanism. I'm not picking on Sith but simply pointing out there are many ways to enjoy SW in various iterations/forms.

I never said you specifically don't get it.

I do however, think there is alot going on underneath the surface. Most of which is Palpatine pulling just about all the strings in everything that is going on and how he has to adjust to things that he couldn't control.

This in my opinion adds an extra layer to everything that is going on. If you feel that qualifies as nothing, than that is your opinion. I personally enjoy the writing of the PT, the acting(especially Anaking) is another story. The acting in the OT is far and away better quality the the PT.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Okay, I've had it with this poison! Dynamo and El Jay: on the ignore-list you go! Goodbye!

Hah. I've heard that one before.

I guess I can finally posit opinions in peace.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by georgec

I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.

There's really nothing to get beneath the surface in the PT. People dislike the PT because (in their opinion) it's poorly executed on all levels - writing, dialogue, plotting, pacing, visual overkill, etc.

This brings me to another point - it's often easier to dismiss others' viewpoints because they don't "get it" as a sort of defense mechanism. I'm not picking on Sith but simply pointing out there are many ways to enjoy SW in various iterations/forms.

I'm with you there dude. Those movies are incredibly shallow, there really isn't any hidden magic happening behind the scenes. I've grown to like them as fun action movies set in the Star Wars universe, but I think "they're too complex for people to understand" couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

"Not being able to follow/understand it" ranks approximately 1,298,938 on the list of things prohibiting me from loving the PT.

[georgec]

Sith - what I mean is that the PT has a lot going on but much of it is lost in the focus on CGI and lack of focus on better dialogue and story-telling.

I do like the idea of Palpatine orchestrating everything. I agree there are more layers to the story in the PT, but I think by trying to include and explain too much many things became lost in the shuffle.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by georgec

What I mean is that the PT has a lot going on but much of it is lost in the focus on CGI and lack of focus on better dialogue and story-telling.

I do like the idea of Palpatine orchestrating everything. I agree there are more layers to the story in the PT, but I think by trying to include and explain too much many things became lost in the shuffle.

Well would you agree that it isn't hard to understand or follow, definitely not any more so than the OT, and that it being hard to follow didn't factor in to whether or not you liked the movies? Cuz that's all I was getting at.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I just finished watching the entire saga I-VI for the second time on blu-ray, aside from some scene jumping I've also done a few times. I am very happy with it, for the most part. My only real complaints about the video are that TPM is a bit too soft, and there are still some garbage mattes and other inconsistencies in the OT.

There are also a few minutes in RotJ, from 54 minutes 34 seconds, through 58 minutes, where the image goes back and forth from looking high def, to looking horribly low res and washed out, but as soon as you really start noticing it, it starts getting better, so it's not that big of a deal.

As far as the audio goes, TPM and AotC both have some of the best sound I've ever heard. The surround sound on those two have a very realistic three-dimensional imaging to them, and the LFE(bass) is just amazing.

I was really surprised by the surround sound and LFE on the OT. All three of them have great enveloping surround usage, and much more LFE heft than I would've ever imagined. I did notice some dialog inconsistencies in ANH, but not too much at all. I also noticed that some of the effects and explosions in the OT had a bit of harshness to them, compared to newer films, but I have to admit that I am absolutely blown away by the audio on the OT overall.

One of my biggest problems with the whole set, is with the audio on RotS. On all five of the other movies, I have my side surrounds set at +1.0, my rear surrounds at +1.5, and my subs at +1.0, and all five movies sound very consistently similar, and absolutely amazing. With RotS, to achieve something even remotely like the other five movies, I had to boost my side surrounds to +4.0, rears to +4.5, and subs to +4.0. Even after doing this, the surrounds were more full, but kind of washed out, with very little directionality, and while the subs had more oomph than before, they still had almost no real clarity or definition.

There were still some scenes that felt like the house should be shaking, but there was almost no bottom end at all. I really noticed this on the lightsabers, among other things. I also noticed, as El_Jay has said, that some of the dialog, and just midrange sounds in general, seemed to be missing certain frequencies, especially the lower midrange warmth, which makes it sound a bit tinny and canned. To be honest, it doesn't really sound bad, it just sounds inconsistent, and not up to par with the other five movies.

I am still very, very happy to have this set. It is one of my absolute favorites of my entire collection.

I'm a little buzzed, but I was curious about what you thought of this crap, I even mentioned your name

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I'm a little buzzed, but I was curious about what you thought of this crap, I even mentioned your name

Oi, yes indeed. I don't have a wicked surround sound setup, but I keep my levels the same for every movie and I watched AOTC and ROTS back to back. I thought ROTS was just totally lacking in low-end and even certain high-end frequencies.

I still need to watch ROTS again and find timestamps for when the dialogue gets tinny and lispy and sounds like it is badly mastered. I watched TPM a second time, I need to watch AOTC again and then on to ROTS, and I will check it out and post my timestamps.

Also, despite the blemishes I am quite proud to own this set on BD. I can take the bad with the good, I like the PT a lot more than I did a couple months ago, I love the packaging and the special features are massive. If they had included the UOT, given TPM and AOTC the attention to PQ they deserved, and mastered Sith properly, it would be pretty damn close to perfection.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Oi, I must've missed it. What did you ask?

I asked your thoughts on this quagmire, you can't deny the power, of the audio on I & II, & then III? What happened?!

[El_Jay]

Also, even though TPM is probably my least favorite SW movie, I have built up a resistance to Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd, and the music, maaaaaaan, the music...

Duel of the Fates is amazing, but The Droid Invasion might be my current favorite Star Wars song. I find myself humming it and whistling it constantly. John Williams hit it out of the park at least.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Well would you agree that it isn't hard to understand or follow, definitely not any more so than the OT, and that it being hard to follow didn't factor in to whether or not you liked the movies? Cuz that's all I was getting at.

Oh no worries you and I are on the same page . I was just clarifying something to Sith.

Maybe I shouldn't be so dismissive of the PT. I acknowledge people can enjoy the movies. I just simply don't find anything of merit in them in terms of what makes a good movie.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by georgec

Oh no worries you and I are on the same page . I was just clarifying something to Sith.

Maybe I shouldn't be so dismissive of the PT. I acknowledge people can enjoy the movies. I just simply don't find anything of merit in them in terms of what makes a good movie.

Yeah, I am with ya there. I am starting to like them just because they are Star Wars and I'm kind of forcing myself to enjoy them since I wanted the whole Saga set, but I mean, take away the lightsabres, the Jedi, the John Williams score, and I would have a hard time finding much to like in them.

I think the main thing is that it's not what these movies are or aren't that disappoints me, it's what they could have been. I imagine what these could have been like every time I watch them and it just feels like a wasted opportunity. They had the friggin richest lore and coolest setup for a premise in the history of movies, and they kind of made generic action-adventure movies with lots of CGI and way too little heart and soul.

Sith is the only movie that comes through on the emotional front, and it's really only because of Ewan McGregor's excellent work in the final showdown with Anakin. That's the only time I felt that the story really engaged me emotionally and made me care about the outcome. Even then, Hayden almost ruins it with his unbelievably wooden and mechanical delivery. "Don't - make - me - kill - you."

Meh... anyway nothing can change what the movies turned out to be, but I just wish they lived up to my expectations for them. I feel like the authors of the EU novels could have written a better story, a good screenwriter could have easily adapted it to screen, and even if George still directed, they would have been much better. Throw in a different director and these movies could have given the OT a run for their money or even been outright better. Imagine that...

[georgec]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Yeah, I am with ya there. I am starting to like them just because they are Star Wars and I'm kind of forcing myself to enjoy them since I wanted the whole Saga set, but I mean, take away the lightsabres, the Jedi, the John Williams score, and I would have a hard time finding much to like in them.

I think the main thing is that it's not what these movies are or aren't that disappoints me, it's what they could have been. I imagine what these could have been like every time I watch them and it just feels like a wasted opportunity. They had the friggin richest lore and coolest setup for a premise in the history of movies, and they kind of made generic action-adventure movies with lots of CGI and way too little heart and soul.

Sith is the only movie that comes through on the emotional front, and it's really only because of Ewan McGregor's excellent work in the final showdown with Anakin. That's the only time I felt that the story really engaged me emotionally and made me care about the outcome. Even then, Hayden almost ruins it with his unbelievably wooden and mechanical delivery. "Don't - make - me - kill - you."

Meh... anyway nothing can change what the movies turned out to be, but I just wish they lived up to my expectations for them. I feel like the authors of the EU novels could have written a better story, a good screenwriter could have easily adapted it to screen, and even if George still directed, they would have been much better. Throw in a different director and these movies could have given the OT a run for their money or even been outright better. Imagine that...

Agreed on all fronts except starting to like the prequels, hehe. Okay, they're not the worst movies ever made, but in the years since ROTS came out I've accepted that the PT just lacks the magical touch and charm the OT had.

My belief for a couple years has been that Lucas could very well produce a new trilogy that takes place after the OT. He could hire someone like Matthew Vaughn or Zack Snyder to direct and others to write the screenplays. The Zahn Thrawn trilogy is the best EU work out there, although I haven't been in touch with the EU since the late 90s. It's amazing how many great stories have been crafted in the SW universe in books, comics, games, etc. There is potential there but now the franchise is just too watered down and diluted.