Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

i thought Vader only cared about luke if luke joined him to kill the Emperor and rule the galaxy.
in ROTJ, when at the end luke shows no sign of joining Vader to run the galaxy, Vader should have let the Emperor kill him.
Vader should have never killed the Emperor and saved luke. the Empire is what Vader wanted. either running it with luke or the Emperor

ROTJ took cinemas greatest villain and ruined him foolishly by making him a good guy at the end. Vader isn't even a villain to me anymore.


he loved the Empire and wanted to rule it with either luke or the Emperor. i don't think he loved luke at all. all i saw in TESB and ROTJ was vader trying to get luke to join him and rule the galaxy. ROTJ killed it when with minutes left in the movie he all of a sudden kills his master to save luke.

it made no sense when luke already showed he had no intention of joining Vader. all those years of being Vader, ruling the galaxy, killing millions, all changed in 30 seconds at the end of ROTJ with Vader becoming a good guy. it makes no sense.

His love for his son brought him back to the light, of course he loved Luke!

That's not really hard to understand.

[Falaskan]

Lucas didn't know how to right Vader's character. He actually thought it was in character for Vader to want to SAVE his son! How ignorant! He should've just had Vader watch him fry and then when Palpatine let him "up for air," he couldn't said "Still want to rule th galaxy with Daddie?!"

[Bluyoda]

That was Lucas' intention. He thought of Vader more like a fallen hero than a villain, and the fact that most people saw him as the ultimate villain was one of the main reasons for hi to do the prequels to begin with.

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by Propellarhead9

If the info is correct that is awesome.

it sure is awesome!

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

That was Lucas' intention. He thought of Vader more like a fallen hero than a villain, and the fact that most people saw him as the ultimate villain was one of the main reasons for hi to do the prequels to begin with.

Umm I always thought of him as the fallen even back in 1977. I mean when Ben talked about him it gave his whole back story right there. We didn't need the dreadful Prequels to get that. If that is what George thought then he sure didn't know his audience and thought we must have been pretty dumb. Sorry I am not buying that as the reason why he did the PT.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Umm I always thought of him as the fallen even back in 1977. I mean when Ben talked about him it gave his whole back story right there. We didn't need to dreadful Prequels to get that. If that is what George thought then he sure didn't know his audience.

Yeah because the prequels hardly made any money at all.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Yeah because the prequels hardly made any money at all.

What does that have to do with my statement or the quote? But yes George made them after 16 years because he is an ego maniac and didn't like not having the highest grossing picture anymore. That's why he made such a big deal about it when E.T. out grossed Star Wars in the early 80's and again when Titanic made over 600 million. Guess he felt he was no longer relevant in Hollywood at that point is my only guess.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Yeah because the prequels hardly made any money at all.

Heh. The numbers dropped dramatically for Clones, and rightly so, but they bounced right up again for Sith. With it being the third prequel you'd have thought that all the haters would've stayed away having learned their lesson with the first two, and yet Sith still look $848 million dollars worldwide. That's a lot of love for SW right there, for a total B/O haul of $2.5 billion in unadjusted dollars. Suddenly Disney's $4 billion spend doesn't seem so much.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. The numbers dropped dramatically for Clones, and rightly so, but they bounced right up again for Sith. With it being the third prequel you'd have thought that all the haters would've stayed away having learned their lesson with the first two, and yet Sith still look $848 million dollars worldwide. That's a lot of love for SW right there, for a total B/O haul of $2.5 billion in unadjusted dollars. Suddenly Disney's $4 billion spend doesn't seem so much.

Exactly!

[Monkey_Boy]

Star Wars Day '14 is here! At 9am, "Star Wars: Episode I- The Phantom Menace" will begin!

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. The numbers dropped dramatically for Clones, and rightly so, but they bounced right up again for Sith. With it being the third prequel you'd have thought that all the haters would've stayed away having learned their lesson with the first two, and yet Sith still look $848 million dollars worldwide. That's a lot of love for SW right there, for a total B/O haul of $2.5 billion in unadjusted dollars. Suddenly Disney's $4 billion spend doesn't seem so much.

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977. And Clones....well let's not even go there. They craped out in the 300 million range why? Because they weren't that great, or at the very least well below Star Wars standards. Word of mouth you know...Sith was almost just as pitiful as Clones. I have no idea why so many think Sith is some great film as it has the same amount of problems as Clones. Now at least TPM looks and feels somewhat (loose term) like a Star Wars film and did a nice 430 Million in 1999 dollars.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

Star Wars Day '14 is here! At 9am, "Star Wars: Episode I- The Phantom Menace" will begin!

Well done sir! Enjoy!

[GuruAskew]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977. And Clones....well let's not even go there. They craped out in the 300 million range why? Because they weren't that great, or at the very least well below Star Wars standards. Word of mouth you know...Sith was almost just as pitiful as Clones. I have no idea why so many think Sith is some great film as it has the same amount of problems as Clones. Now at least TPM looks and feels somewhat (loose term) like a Star Wars film and did a nice 430 Million in 1999 dollars.

In 1977 George Lucas started a trilogy in which the sequels grosses were 68% and 82% if the first film's gross at the box office respectively.

In 1999 George Lucas started a trilogy in which the sequels grosses were 70% and 88% if the first film's gross at the box office respectively.

Give the huge change in the media landscape between 1977 and 1999 it's actually remarkable just how similarly the two trilogies performed compared to one another.

You could write a nearly identical post about how Empire and Jedi were box office disappointments too. For what it's worth I suspect the sequel trilogy will follow a similar trajectory.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. The numbers dropped dramatically for Clones, and rightly so, but they bounced right up again for Sith. With it being the third prequel you'd have thought that all the haters would've stayed away having learned their lesson with the first two, and yet Sith still look $848 million dollars worldwide. That's a lot of love for SW right there, for a total B/O haul of $2.5 billion in unadjusted dollars. Suddenly Disney's $4 billion spend doesn't seem so much.

The main reason for Clones decline was Spider-Man. It wouldn't have made as much as Menace, but it still would have probably added another $50+ million had it not been for the web-slinger. Additionally, Sith faced two $45M openers in its second weekend as well, but still managed to stay on top which is very impressive. Menace, by comparison had little competition for the first three weeks.

[HomerThompson]

Empire Strikes Back actually dropped dramatically from the first film as well. It's the lowest grossing of the original trilogy. The middle of the trilogy syndrome, I guess.

Originally Posted by Elvis

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977.

What a dumb comment.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977.

Well, that's because people had seen what came before. Fool me once: TPM. Fool Me twice: AOTC...
People, at that point, didn't want to go through the agony...

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Well, that's because people had seen what came before. Fool me once: TPM. Fool Me twice: AOTC...
People, at that point, didn't want to go through the agony...

Which explains why Sith made nearly $200M more than Clones and only $80M less than Menace worldwide...

...oh wait...

...IT DOESN'T.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977. And Clones....well let's not even go there. They craped out in the 300 million range why? Because they weren't that great, or at the very least well below Star Wars standards. Word of mouth you know...Sith was almost just as pitiful as Clones. I have no idea why so many think Sith is some great film as it has the same amount of problems as Clones. Now at least TPM looks and feels somewhat (loose term) like a Star Wars film and did a nice 430 Million in 1999 dollars.

Again, based on some comments you made earlier regarding the music of these films, I'm reading that popular appeal is the best gauge of merit in these cases, yes? I don't know that I agree in all cases, but I think it IS clear that the Prequels followed a similar trajectory to the originals. They did make money. A lot of people like them. People who hate them REALLY hate them. Seems to me that that's about as clear as it's ever gonna get.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Sith the "grand finale" didn't even break 400 million domestic! That's awful for a Star Wars film, especially for one that setup the ultimate battle that we had been hearing so much about since 1977. And Clones....well let's not even go there. They craped out in the 300 million range why? Because they weren't that great, or at the very least well below Star Wars standards. Word of mouth you know...Sith was almost just as pitiful as Clones. I have no idea why so many think Sith is some great film as it has the same amount of problems as Clones. Now at least TPM looks and feels somewhat (loose term) like a Star Wars film and did a nice 430 Million in 1999 dollars.

Sith's take would've easily placed in the domestic top 4 of every year since then, would've topped 2007 by $44m and would've finished about $1m behind Harry Potter's "grand finale" in 2011. And it would've pissed all over this year's offerings so far, which are just about knocking on the door of $300m, never mind $400.

$380 mil is a heck of a chunk of dough (especially with no 3D/IMAX premiums), no matter what name is above the door. And it's slightly more than that other "grand finale" Return of the King took domestically, so what excuses are there to account for that?

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Which explains why Sith made nearly $200M more than Clones and only $80M less than Menace worldwide...

...oh wait...

...IT DOESN'T.

Ahhhh you suck. You got me. I was trying to be cheeky and it backfired.

See? I can admit when I'm wrong.