Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[LADodgers]

Originally Posted by Beast

Re: Changes to Empire. Kershner already gave Lucas his blessing back in '97.

But regardless, both films were those Director's overseeing Lucas' vision. It was work for hire.

Much like if Marvel hires a writer or artist to work for them. They're working on other people's characters. Simple enough.

Not really because you are making an exception for one person. Being a director and interacting with actors is art! I don't care if Lucas wrote the story it was seen through the eyes of someone else, in turn it was their art. Same goes for Kasdan and his screenplay. He should have directed all the films himself. Where we are at today is a situation that Lucas created. This goes for all the haters, hay sayers, lovers and everyone in between. Don't hate the haters for hating, hate the creator for putting us all in this position in the first place.

[NexusVerbal]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

It would be kind of funny if after everyone cancelled, we discovered that the original theatrical presentations of the PT were Easter eggs on the discs.

That would be absolutely crazy. And great.

But I think we can infer that it's just not happening. Oh, and I think you meant to say OT not PT.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Tammytastic

Well you could argue Empire was the product of Irvin Kershner, Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan (as was Jedi to an extent) with Richard Marquand also on the latter ? I'm not denying GL's involvement just it's not like Ep 4 where he was all over it ?

Well, maybe not Leigh Brackett.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

But regardless, both films were those Director's overseeing Lucas' vision. It was work for hire.

Much like if Marvel hires a writer or artist to work for them. They're working on other people's characters. Simple enough.

So if Marvel decides to later make changes to movies that were written and directed by "hired guns", they have the right to do so in your eyes?

What about WB and the Dark Knight? I know you aren't a fan of that movie or Nolan, but you will supposedly show him "respect" by arbitrary capitalizing and titles by which you would call him, but he doesn't own Batman. He was just hired to direct it. WB ultimately owns Batman and DC comics, so where does it end?

This whole thing is a slippery slope in which the concept of artists rights more or less break down and revert back to the owner of the content.

The cases of the same person being both the owner and director of a film are few and far between.

[Jumpman]

Um, Brackett's draft of Empire was pretty much thrown out after she finished it. That's when Lucas wrote his draft, which was polished by Kershner and Kasdan. But, the basic plot and scenes all came from Lucas' draft after Brackett...and yet, he took no writing credit for it.

As for Jedi, it's been pretty much known for a while that Kershner's AD and Lucas directed the majority of that film...especially the Throne Room sequence.

Now, I'm done....

[Cortiz]

guys, the bottom line is: George is in control of the entire series. Whether he directed or not.

[Alpha]

Hopped online today, first thing I see on Yahoo was "Star Wars new". I lol'd. It talked about the planned boycotts.

This thread and the orignial source for all the changes might actually make GL do things...particulary nothing.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Chordata

I hope that some of you guys put the same amount of time and dedication toward your jobs and families as you do toward this thread.

Wow.

Screw 'em, This is Star Wars.

[Chiyo_chichi]

I just find it amazing how there's no definitive cut. Lucas will say the newest release is the best. Some fans will say the original release is the only one that matters. Other fans enjoy the SE stuff like seeing Coruscant at the end of Jedi, but don't like Jedi Rocks/Greedo shooting. The 2004 cut is nice with stuff like a better looking Jabba, but the sound effect/music are less than ideal and many visual effects look terrible. Then you have Hayden at the end..

Original VHS releases (and Laserdisc release minor changes)
1997 SE
2004 DVD
2011 BD

All are different, and whos to say there won't be more changes in Bluray's successor. Maybe they'll change stuff up for the 3d theatrical releases. I mean these films are really lost in identity.

If you could stop everything and restore one for a wonderful bluray release, whats the best way to go?

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Alpha

This thread and the orignial source for all the changes might actually make GL do things....

Things like this:

[Show spoiler]

[neoz]

Originally Posted by leem6453

I knew they would start going up in price eventually. Glad I bought these individually when they first came out.

[Show spoiler]

I have these also I believe, they came in this double open tin.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

If you could stop everything and restore one for a wonderful bluray release, whats the best way to go?

Ideally, you'd have a Blade Runner-type situation where there are all 4 (or 5) versions of each film.

But if I could restore 1, I'd go back and just do the version that is on the Faces LDs (and later non-anamorphic DVDs). While I like *some* of the changes and would gladly mix a few in for my own personal cut... I think the original should always be retained.

When we start putting Sebulba in RotJ and removing actors for thier prequel counterparts (Boba Fett and Palpatine in ESB, Ghost Anakin in RotJ), we've crossed a line.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

guys, the bottom line is: George is in control of the entire series. Whether he directed or not.

I don't deny that he is in control. But at least for the cases of TESB and ROTJ, he is in control in the same sense that a flim studio is typically in control of most movies.

If we are going to start to give credit to Lucas as the artist of these films when he basically outsourced the directing of the films since he apparently didn't feel like doing it himself, then wouldn't we more or less have to do the same for a studio that is putting plans for a movie in motion, and brings in "hired guns" to write, direct, etc? If one is going to make that argument, then the entire concept of artist rights just starts to fall apart. It's a slippery slope. Where you do draw the line?

It's just one of many special favor exceptions that the people in his court seem to be extended to Lucas and ONLY Lucas in the name of "artistic rights" that never seem to apply to anyone else in any other circumstance.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

So if Marvel decides to later make changes to movies that were written and directed by "hired guns", they have the right to do so in your eyes?

They already have in comics. Removing cigarettes from some reprints, covering up exposed breasts from Tomb of Dracula issues for reprints. And they've also done complete recolorings of comics. The originals are still there in back issue form. They're simply not available in the newest trades or collections.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by neoz

I have these also I believe, they came in this double open tin.

If my memory isn't failing me, the tin was exclusive to Best Buy.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

I just find it amazing how there's no definitive cut. Lucas will say the newest release is the best. Some fans will say the original release is the only one that matters. Other fans enjoy the SE stuff like seeing Coruscant at the end of Jedi, but don't like Jedi Rocks/Greedo shooting. The 2004 cut is nice with stuff like a better looking Jabba, but the sound effect/music are less than ideal and many visual effects look terrible. Then you have Hayden at the end..

Original VHS releases (and Laserdisc release minor changes)
1997 SE
2004 DVD
2011 BD

All are different, and whos to say there won't be more changes in Bluray's successor. Maybe they'll change stuff up for the 3d theatrical releases. I mean these films are really lost in identity.

If you could stop everything and restore one for a wonderful bluray release, whats the best way to go?

It's a tough call.

I love the true FIXES, like the Landspeeder in A New Hope and better-looking explosions, and some of the minor additions like dewbacks, more creatures in Mos Eisley, Palpatine's face, don't bother me. Some of the 'fixes', like Han's new carbonite thaw, R2 behind the rocks, and even the blinking Ewoks don't bother me one way or the other.

Then you have "Jedi Rocks", Hayden in Jedi, Darth saying "NOOOO!", Jabba providing comic relief in A New Hope that are just jarring, baffling changes that I feel totally detract from the films in one way or another. Especially Jedi Rocks, the tone of that scene is altered for the worse because of it.

I would honestly be okay with everything else if they:

- Removed Hayden from Jedi and put Shaw back in
- Removed the "Noooo" from the climax of ROTJ
- Removed the whole Jedi Rocks sequence entirely
- Removed the superfluous Jabba confrontation in the hangar in A New Hope

The rest of the stuff I can easily deal with, but those 4 are major, and leave a sour taste in my mouth.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Beast

Re: Changes to Empire. Kershner already gave Lucas his blessing back in '97.

I don't know if he "gave his blessing". He pretty much stated he was glad that not much was changed. Interesting read about how they came up with Han Solo saying "I know" instead of "I love you too" (GL's choice).Here is the quote I could find...

Mike Ryan: Is it satisfying that Empire has been changed the least of the original trilogy with the 1997 Special Editions and DVD release?

Kershner: When the film was released in 1997 and later put into DVD, I was very gratified that it was almost unchanged, except the sound was much improved, whereas Star Wars and Jedi had big changes.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/osc...irvin-kershner

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by neoz

I have these also I believe, they came in this double open tin.

[Show spoiler]

Yeah, that was a Best Buy exclusive set of them from when they first came out in 2006.

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by insomniac013

George obviously does not get Star Wars or gives a shit about his fans. Why should the rights be with him when he keeps ****ing it up?

Yeah, El Jay knows whats up!

Did you just say that Lucas doesn't get SW?

[STARSCREAM]

I'm still surprised there haven't been leaks yet of the prequels. Still waiting to find out the changes to those.