Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[WannabeSpiderMan]

Originally Posted by Breather

Massive sales numbers prove that people are seeking fun, curiosity, and the willingness to go along for the ride. People aren't buying that many in 1-2 days to watch them sit and collect dust.

Of course, knowledgeable fans are going to discuss and critique the films in detail. You have that with any popular film/film franchise. It just seems that some don't like a diversity of opinion. Odd when you consider that it's happening on discussion boards.

I think it's still fun to talk to fans about the movies in detail. I avoid two types of fans. The "you must like everything about the films and you must not question George Lucas" types and the "I can't wait until that (insert word here) dies so I can have the UOT" types. Two strange groups of people. This thread has people that like the "noooo" change and others who don't like it. Diversity of opinion is what makes the discussion fun. That's just one example. You get discussion of all the changes. I'd hate to be around mindless drones that all had the same opinion. Any film/film franchise is going to have things we like/don't like. There's nothing wrong with discussing that.

I can't comment on TFN. I don't post there.

I agree. I enjoy discussing Star Wars with fellow fans due to varying passionate opinions, however it's not fun when it's all just predominantly negative. Negative band-wagon jumping. I know online most of it is just hot air, (especially "Pre-Order cancelled" people) but it's like somewhere along the line people forgot how to discuss what they LIKE about the films. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

[jonmoz]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

The unaltered dvds are not anamorphic. They are 4:3 letterboxed.

Sorry I thought we were talking about the last Dvd release.

Although to be fair I thought all the Dvd's were anamorphic.

[Beta Man]

I don't want to sound crass to those who are deeply invested emotionally in this, but as a self-proclaimed "casual viewer" of Star Wars (I've seen the OT several times I'd say.... and watched TPM a couple of times, and I don't think I've finished the other ones) I have to ask the question.....

"Whether the light-sabers have a blue-ish, or greenish, or clear or pinkish/redish tint etc.... what does that really matter?"

I'm all for "Director's intent" and at the same time, I can see why people are upset if a muppet is re-done with CGI etc.... but for something like this, what's the big deal? Maybe Lucas wanted it a certain color from the beginning, and now fixed it, or changed his mind etc... but does it really change the scenes?

I'm going to eventually buy the whole set at a decent price. Originally I just wanted to buy the original trilogy, but I'm sure too many people will be over who will want to watch the rest, and having not seen the last two in their entirety, it spares me the rentals anyways.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I am not so sure, the PQ on the DVD is not great at all, I find they seem to look better on the Laserdisc but that's just me.

I watched some of the 2006 A New Hope DVD (on my Oppo BDP-93) that uses the LD transfer I'm told and the PQ is terrible on my 60" display. Very poor detail with horrendous mosquito noise and compression artifacts/noise. I cannot even watch it. The 2004 DVD is far better in this regard even with some of the black crushing, redder skin tones, lightsaber color issues, etc. They are not even in the same universe!

[Ray O. Blu]

Originally Posted by NYorker

I think you're generalizing too much here. I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) never got worked up on the minutest details of SW, lightsaber color etc.
But this is not a nonsensical issue: this is a serious (in my opinion) discussion of an alteration of a film that, because of its status as a cinema touchstone, or whatever, is not the same as it was, even in '97.

This thread was supposed to be a celebration of one of the greatest trilogies in film history (in the top three, in my book), but because its creator continued to modify it incessantly and, by many fans, without reason - it is no longer the case.

Is it going to sell millions of copies? probably. Will it leave a good taste in people's mouth? absolutely not (I skipped on the obvious pun...). Why?

Instead of being treated to what was supposed to be the "crown jewel" of the format, fans perceive they are treated to a release that a complete effort may not have been thrown in it, and the film creator himself as added changes that were a) unexpected and b) so unnecessary that it tarnishes the release, the film and its legacy, and the franchise's creator himself, George Lucas.

Understand this: from a film point of view, from a story point of view, these changes make zero sense. Zero! that is what gets a lot of these people so worked up. Some people have given up entirely on SW. Others, like yourself, want to brush it aside and say, "I can live with it, now I finally have it in 1080p and 6.1 sound." Fair enough.

But you know what the worse thing is...?
Choice.
GL leaves us no choice but either to settle for the frankensteinian creations, or not watch at all. So I, like others, choose not to watch it (I have my '04 DVD, good enough for me).

He could have easily taken a page from the books of PJ, JCameron, Ridley Scott or any other director who released a director's/extended cut in addition to the original release.

So why didn't he? maybe for the same reason he added the pathetic "nooooo," and the Ben "How to scream like a dragon" yelp and "peekaboo" R2:

Because he can.

Excellent post. It's amazing how hard it is for some folks to grasp the concept of film preservation.

[MrJoeKalel]

Any new additions to the PT? Any of the DVD deleted scenes into the blu-rays? (Considering how the DVDs were a different cut already)

There are a few things that bother me of some members:

A lot of you disregard and ignore posts that actually prove your points wrong, and that actually point out faults and things that aren't true from your posts. For example, somebody says something that has truth to it, backs it up, and the 'fanatics' (not fans) disregard it, bury it, so that they don't have to actually defend their point. For me, it's like a battle they don't wanna fight because they're gonna lose. Sad.

The second is the hypocrisy of a very few; while they want the UOT and they hate (very strong feeling) what Lucas (the creator of the art) has made with SW, they approve of rips, and fan edits, which I still argue, shows professional frustration from them (it's also funny how they wanted to become filmmakers because of SW and how this has made them do fan edits).

I agree with CHOICE, and this is what we must tell Lucas and how to try to get help from Spielberg...We as fans want the choice to watch the original SW trilogy and new versions, just like Spielberg did with E.T. and CET3K, Scott did with Blade Runner, Fox did with the Alien Quadrilogy (or Tetralogy?) and James Cameron has done with Terminator 2 and Avatar (Titanic too?).

Finally, be civil. Thankfully there are no real trolls, but we have to respect people's opinions whether we like them or not. Respect each other. Plus, post things that make sense and you can backup, nothing makes you look smarter than that.

P.S. Someone mentioned before about watching the movies in black and white...has anybody tried that? It sounds extremely interesting.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

"Whether the light-sabers have a blue-ish, or greenish, or clear or pinkish/redish tint etc.... what does that really matter?"

This has been more of a minor annoyance to me, personally. This is something that's a technical error as a result of whatever was done to get the films ready for dvd. I'm not interested in them redoing the lightsaber effects; it would just be nice for them to appear how they did originally (no pink bubblegum saber).

I care much more about things that alter the characters, story, etc.

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I don't want to sound crass to those who are deeply invested emotionally in this, but as a self-proclaimed "casual viewer" of Star Wars (I've seen the OT several times I'd say.... and watched TPM a couple of times, and I don't think I've finished the other ones) I have to ask the question.....

"Whether the light-sabers have a blue-ish, or greenish, or clear or pinkish/redish tint etc.... what does that really matter?"

I'm all for "Director's intent" and at the same time, I can see why people are upset if a muppet is re-done with CGI etc.... but for something like this, what's the big deal? Maybe Lucas wanted it a certain color from the beginning, and now fixed it, or changed his mind etc... but does it really change the scenes?

I'm going to eventually buy the whole set at a decent price. Originally I just wanted to buy the original trilogy, but I'm sure too many people will be over who will want to watch the rest, and having not seen the last two in their entirety, it spares me the rentals anyways.

It does not matter---it looks cool whether it is green or blu or anything in my personal opinion.

I am just using it as evidence that the so-called "messed up 2004 dvd" is actually not so messed up after all----and by doing so allowing more people to enjoy this blu ray release (and it's 2004 counterpart).

And I say this as someone who would like nothing better than to have the 1977 version on blu ray.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Ray O. Blu

Excellent post. It's amazing how hard it is for some folks to grasp the concept of film preservation.

Very sad, isn't it?

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I watched some of the 2006 A New Hope DVD (on my Oppo BDP-93) that uses the LD transfer I'm told and the PQ is terrible on my 60" display. Very poor detail with horrendous mosquito noise and compression artifacts/noise. I cannot even watch it. The 2004 DVD is far better in this regard even with some of the black crushing, redder skin tones, lightsaber color issues, etc. They are not even in the same universe!

Well said.

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by WannabeSpiderMan

I don't mean this in a snarky, disrespectful-of-your-perspective way, but when you say David Prowse's performance was amazing, you must realize that he just stood there and turned his head back and forth, right? All of the dramatic emotion that the moment carried, along with the emotional conflict going on inside the character himself due to the story, is all projected upon him by YOU, the viewer. The helmet is blank, with no emotion visible. Every bit of power in that scene comes from the power that you give it due to your investment.

The moment is still the same, and if the "No" had been there since day one, nobody would have been upset. You still would have been swept up in the moment.

You couldn't be more wrong, and clearly do not understand the talent and ability Prowse had when it came to the physicality of the character.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by danny_boy

But the documentary does show a continouse clip from the film(after showing those test plates).

The clip has effects and dialogue(which prove it is from the film---and not test footage).

I just showed this to Ady:

The clip has the saber being green as it moves around Luke, but as it blasts him it turns blue:



I never gave this greenish tint in the documentary a second's thought---until it resurfaced in the 2004 master(which is the best the film ever looked on home video).

So I don't think it is a coincidence.

The saber was never green in the film. Ever. As Ady told you, even in the first VHS pressing, there was no green. Then you follow that up with supposition and conjecture about various prints of which you have no evidence of or idea. The documentary footage was nothing more than test footage using footage of the film to show you how they did the lightsabers. There was never any green to the saber in the theatrical versions or any home video releases of those versions. Not in the theater, on VHS, or LD. The first instance of a green saber was when they gave us the 2004 release with screwed up color timing and boosted contrast. End of story. I find it very odd that you have twice come on this site with crazy ideas about the lightsabers and then try to play the "get the last word" game in a vain effort to appear correct, when you aren't.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Very sad, isn't it?

What is released on BD doesn't really have anything to do with film preservation though.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I watched some of the 2006 A New Hope DVD (on my Oppo BDP-93) that uses the LD transfer I'm told and the PQ is terrible on my 60" display. Very poor detail with horrendous mosquito noise and compression artifacts/noise. I cannot even watch it. The 2004 DVD is far better in this regard even with some of the black crushing, redder skin tones, lightsaber color issues, etc. They are not even in the same universe!

...and yet, if that's what I have to endure to enjoy the original Star Wars, so be it.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

What is released on BD doesn't really have anything to do with film preservation though.

True enough, and I'd be perfectly happy obtaining film reels of the original Star Wars films. In the absense of that, however, I have to deal with the lastest and greatest in home video media.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by tigertron

The boycott will achieve nothing. Those who were against the special editions were just looking for any excuse not to buy which is quite sad really.

Fans like myself have accepted these changes, no matter how stupid just so we can enjoy the whole saga in glorious HD. I will double dip if an ultimate collection comes out with all versions and complete extras (i.e. all deleted scenes) but until then, I'm just going to enjoy what should be the best of Blu-ray.

Yeah. I can only laugh at the people boycutting this. talk about fanatic to the extreme

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Those customer reviews are a joke. Amazon should really remove all of them considering the set hasn't come out yet. And I imagine most people will read about two sentences of one of the reviews say "The hell? Get a life." and click the "Add to Shopping Cart" button.

i agree they should delete those 1 star reviews it was the same with the LOTR TE when people found out it was not the EE. Seriously idiots to give the set 1 star because of this its the same here.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by mredman

i agree they should delete those 1 star reviews it was the same with the LOTR TE when people found out it was not the EE. Seriously idiots to give the set 1 star because of this its the same here.

Ratings for things like this are pointless anyways.....

If you go on Amazon and use customer ratings to determine what you are going to buy, you deserve whatever you get.....

For products I actually want to know about (not movies...) I typically read the negative reviews, determine why the person rated it that way, and determine if it's a legitimate concern etc..... I do this for things like BD Players, Lawn Mower, and even a storage rack thingy my wife wanted..... but never for a movie.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by vargo

LOTR was scanned at 2K while the negatives were still new. No cleanup was needed.

Star Wars was scanned at 2K (or 1.9) from aged and worn-out sources.

There was significant automated cleanup done - DNR, scratch removal etc. In addition of course to whatever manual processing was done.

What you need to understand is that automated cleanup at 2K does not give you results good enough for a 1080p product.

You always need to scan at a higher resolution so that the cleanup algorithms can make more precise decisions about what to remove and how to remove it.

I understand fine, but when people spout inaccuracies saying they won't buy the set because it's only a 2K scan (old or not), I just find it funny. 2K is perfectly fine - is 4K better? Sure.

Not to mention, the scans were all digitally re-color timed (as we know) and cleaned up several times over the years... so I fail to see how the sources are and more "worn out" than they would be today.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by WannabeSpiderMan

I agree. I enjoy discussing Star Wars with fellow fans due to varying passionate opinions, however it's not fun when it's all just predominantly negative. Negative band-wagon jumping. I know online most of it is just hot air, (especially "Pre-Order cancelled" people) but it's like somewhere along the line people forgot how to discuss what they LIKE about the films. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

I think people do fine in discussing what they like about the films but further alterations, especially one that most people see as bad and unnecessary, tend to upset people. The constant changes over the last 14 years, coupled with the absence of a restored UOT, has upset many people. Star Wars is unique in that you don't see a situation like this with other film franchises.

There is a BD release on the way and that tends to bring the subject of the changes and the A/V quality to the forefront as expected.

[WannabeSpiderMan]

Originally Posted by Agent Bond

Re: Alec Guinness not liking Star Wars

Yes, it is true. I went to the library and read his authorized biography. He didn't like the dialogue (thought Star Wars as a whole movie was amateurish compared to other films he had done), hated being in the heat where the Tatooine scenes were filmed, didn't get along with anybody on the cast except for Harrison Ford, and hated the fact that his part in Star Wars overshadowed his previous cinematic works.

He only came back for the sequels for the paycheck and as a favor to Lucas given the popularity that Star Wars had generated.



Exactly. In the original Star Wars, they made it sound like Anakin Skywalker was this badass Jedi who turned to the darkside because he was greedy for power.

Only to the find out in the prequel trilogy that he was actually a whiny fu**ing b*tch who did it mainly to save the life of his wife. COME ON!

I will never forgive Lucas for ruining the Anakin Skywalker with his retcon bullsh*t.

His ambitious desire for power/recognition was made apparent in the films, he verbally expressed it, and his selfish desire to save/keep his wife was just the final catalyst for the no-going-back change. After all, he grew up father-less and as a slave, and then spent the next 13 years having the most powerful man in the galaxy giving him special attention, telling him he was special, that he was better than everyone else, that he didn't have to follow the rules, and that finally if he were to do unspeakable things in his name, he would not only get away with it, but would be rewarded for it with unlimited power and recognition, plus get to keep his wife, which the Jedi wouldn't allow if they found out.

(Plus take into account that this same man manipulated all surrounding events to cause distrust and confusion within Anakin, further destabilizing the young impressionable man, to suit this ultimate goal)

I would think that after doing what he knew was wrong for selfish reasons, and as a result losing every friendship, the woman he loves, and his children, plus being mangled/disfigured, that he would become the cold, detached person behind the helmet that we know from the OT. He hates himself and his life at that point, so he has no sympathy for anyone else.

I think it plays out naturally within the story presented.