Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[MCT]

Originally Posted by Beast

It doesn't make them morons to recognize the weakness of that duel.

Again, if it wasn't for the conflict or the dialogue.. the scene would have been a huge fail.

The ENTIRE OT was based on themes of conflict and internal struggle. Saying if it wasn't for those things the scene would have failed makes no sense at all. The point is, those fights ARE grounded in conflict, so it doesn't fail; in fact, in the grand scheme of things, it just may be the most emotionally heavy fight in the entire saga. Again, it's not about the way they fight, it's about WHY they're fighting...it's the reason why every fight in the OT had a point and therefore had much more impact than some stupid CGI Showcase of Yoda/Dooku or Maul/Obi Wan in the PT. I doubt anyone shed tears when Mace Windu got his just desserts. Or Kit Fisto. Or Plo Koon. Or Longhead Alienman. Or Yaddle. Or.....

Most of the effects in the OT were fine. And those that were shoddy, were thankfully improved and tweaked by the Special Editions. If the movies don't matter as you say, and all that matters is the meaning behind them... then it doesn't matter if they have updated special effects that improve a few flaws.

I didn't say movies...I said moves. Of course the movies matter. If they didn't, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because SW would have been DOA in '77. I daresay Lucas would never had gotten TPM off the ground if that were the first movie of his saga in 1999, but that's another topic.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

To me the worst effect in the series they didn't fix was the TIE fighter collision explosion in the asteroid canyon in Empire.

Much worse than the SSD collision.

That one is pretty bad as well, but I still think the SSD collision in ROTJ is by far the worst. There are a few other f/x changes/fixes I'd like to see made, besides the ones mentioned already, but I doubt they'll happen.

[nametag]

Originally Posted by MCT

you totally missed the point of the Sarlacc then. It's a metaphor. A giant hole that resembles a vagina that swallows men whole and digests them over a period of 1000 years...it's supposed to be Lucas' swipe at Marcia, since they were going through a nasty divorce at the time, I believe. It's brilliant and clever, one of the few things Lucas has done in the last 30 years that I can honestly say that about with a straight face.

That's hilaaaarious if it's true. Bless George, I wonder if the divorce papers had 'her vagina swallows men whole!' as the grounds for divorce

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by MCT

*sigh*

you totally missed the point of the Sarlacc then. It's a metaphor. A giant hole that resembles a vagina that swallows men whole and digests them over a period of 1000 years...it's supposed to be Lucas' swipe at Marcia, since they were going through a nasty divorce at the time, I believe. It's brilliant and clever, one of the few things Lucas has done in the last 30 years that I can honestly say that about with a straight face. Adding in CGI tentacles and a beak, which look horrible anyways, cheapens the effect and the meaning behind it.

I don't care who you are, that's hilarious.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

To me the worst effect in the series they didn't fix was the TIE fighter collision explosion in the asteroid canyon in Empire.

Agreed.

#1 on my list too.

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[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Beast

Most of the effects in the OT were fine. And those that were shoddy, were thankfully improved and tweaked by the Special Editions. If the movies don't matter as you say, and all that matters is the meaning behind them... then it doesn't matter if they have updated special effects that improve a few flaws.

And that's the whole point between the "hate" and "love". Personally, while I prefer having the Classic versions available, I don't despise the SE's.

However, I can recognize that I wish he had gone about it differently. I would have been all for clean-ups of just about everything. I wouldn't have wanted full-CGI space scenes, but there certainly was a lot of room to manuver with the existing ships and FX and improvements.

I think it started as "let's clean these suckers up" and it was a downward spiral from Jabba on down. Lucas/etc. was like, "Well, how can we really get people excited about this release? Let's add in a new scene..." (Which, interestingly enough, they are doing again with this Blu-release.)

From there it was like, "Well, I always wanted to change this...or redo that..." and that all ended up where we know - Greedo shoots first. I think if they'd gone a third of the way, instead of full throttle, a lot more people would have just loved them.

It will be interesting to see what changes happen this round...I'll be glad to have them on Blu, but I also will be wishing for a separate release later with the unaltered editions. Even better, would be for that Classic edition to also include the Classic Version, BUT with the upgraded FX. IE, no changes to the content/running time/etc. of the film, but just with the upgraded FX shots that fixed what was already there.

Like I said earlier, though - my biggest wish for this set coming out is that they include the FULL Star Tours film (70mm) since the ride will be long closed at that point.

[Chiyo_chichi]

I couldn't contain myself, and I ended up watching the OT on dvd since the news broke. Honestly the only effect I was really displeased at was Luke's green lightsaber in ANH as he's training. The hell?

[Duffy12]

Regarding the Lightsaber battles from each trilogy...



I much prefer the OTs style such as this from 'Empire'











Then this aerobics silliness from the the PQs. Ugh!








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[MCT]

its like they're swinging giant glow sticks while at a rave circa 1999

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by MCT

its like they're swinging giant glow sticks while at a rave circa 1999

OT lightsaber duels - completely lacking in strategy, speed or proper form
PT lightsaber duels - exciting, fast and featuring numerous forms and disciplines

[Chiyo_chichi]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

OT lightsaber duels - completely lacking in strategy, speed or proper form
PT lightsaber duels - exciting, fast and featuring numerous forms and disciplines

The final fight in ROTJ is my all time favorite. You can't say thats not exciting and emotional.

[bandit29]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

OT lightsaber duels - completely lacking in strategy, speed or proper form
PT lightsaber duels - exciting, fast and featuring numerous forms and disciplines

And yet the OT duels have feeling. Most of the PT duels are souless.

[MCT]

Originally Posted by bandit29

And yet the OT duels have feeling. Most of the PT duels are souless.

b-b-b-but they're SO FAST! And they're, like, flipping and twirling and not even trying to really hit each other! It's sooooo much cooler watching them try to impress each other with their mad sk1llz y0! Stupid OT fights, with their purpose and emotion...they suck.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by MCT

b-b-b-but they're SO FAST! And they're, like, flipping and twirling and not even trying to really hit each other! It's sooooo much cooler watching them try to impress each other with their mad sk1llz y0! Stupid OT fights, with their purpose and emotion...they suck.

*swing, grunt*
*swing, moan*
*swing, groan*
Not actually hurt each other? The Jedi and Sith killed a lot more people than we see Luke and Vader and Obi-Wan kill in the OT.

[Diesel]

I think the "fight" (it's not really a fight, its a distraction) between Vader and Obi-wan does indeed suck.

Does the scene? Absolutely not, its a great scene for the characters and history....but the actual fight sucks



My favorite actual fight sequence is the one between the two in Revenge of the Sith (if only it weren't inter-cut and interrupted with the one between Yoda and Sidious). The part between them two before they begin fighting and after he's sliced up and the fight is over are two of my favorite moments of the movie (Obi-wan's part, not "I HATE YOUUUUU!!").

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by bandit29

And yet the OT duels have feeling. Most of the PT duels are souless.

Right.


This guy here does a pretty good job of explaining just that.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0#t=6m1s



"You see, Obi-Wan is pumped. He really wants to kick this guys a**, and then BAM! It's right back to highly choreographed fighting."


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[Batman1980]

I get that the OT duels have emotion behind them but they are so boring to watch, especially since most of them are so one-sided that you already know who's going to win before the fight even begins.

[philzilla]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Right.


This guy here does a pretty good job of explaining just that.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0#t=6m1s



"You see, Obi-Wan is pumped. He really wants to kick this guys a**, and then BAM! It's right back to highly choreographed fighting."


.

yeah, these are really brilliant reviews and he really breaks down the problems with a smile

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by philzilla

yeah, these are really brilliant reviews and he really breaks down the problems with a smile

And speaking of with a smile...


It looks like someone finally deciphered the main lyrics to 'Duel of Fates'.


I always wondered what the hell they were singing.


.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

I get that the OT duels have emotion behind them but they are so boring to watch, especially since most of them are so one-sided that you already know who's going to win before the fight even begins.

Indeed. At least Luke's sucky lightsaber skills are due to his limited training.

Obi-Wan's out is his age, his lapsed training, and the wounds he recieved from Dooku and Anakin. Though we all know the real reason is Alec Guiness' poor performance during the duel. Worst duel of the Saga.

Vader has no excuse in ANH, except for Alec Guiness not being able to measure up.
Since Vader's dueling skills are much better in ESB and RotJ.

But yeah, the duels are pretty weak in the OT. Mostly due to Luke's lack of training.

It was nice to see what Jedi's in their prime with real training looked like in the PTs. Aka, Awesome.