Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

I´m sorry but i´m afraid your review doesn´t come across as objective at all. Reference quality discs, you´re having a laugh. Blu-rays that come to mind like the Avatar blu-ray or The Descent australian blu-ray are reference blu-rays IMHO. You clearly have a very different definition of ´reference´ to me and indeed many others here.

The OT is nice, a little better than the german hdtv steams I have, with finer grain and far less artifacts, but the difference between the two is subtle, not at all a night and day difference like you´ve suggested in some posts. After all, they both come from the same2004 lowry masters, so the only real difference is the bitrate, which is far higher on the blu-ray. Now if they had rescanned the films with modern equipment like they did with fotr ee blu-ray (which I would personally rate as 4.5/5 for picture quality), then we would be seeing something that would have a good chance of deserving to be called ´reference´.

As for The Phantom Menace, clearly you do not seem to be bothered by DNR turning everything into wax if you rate it 4/5, which is a high PQ rating as far as i´m concerned, with 5/5 meaning ´reference´ PQ, which of course very few blu-rays have. I assume you must have also thought that Patton and Predator ultimate edition looked great on your THX calibrated system as well.

If I had to rate the 4 films i´ve seen as far as PQ is concerned, I would rate them as follows:

OT:

Star Wars 4/5
Empire Strikes Back 4/5
Return of the Jedi 4/5 (would be 4.5/5 if not for a few scenes where the shots look out of focus)

PT:

The Phantom Menace 2/5 (there looks to have been very decent detail in the transfer but its all been turned to wax by the massive DNR applied afterwards)

and you saw them round your friends house, on what setup?

Seriously, if you have seen them, that is your take. Mine is my opinion. Why do people struggle with that? Name another film made in '77 that looks anywhere near as good as thus and then rethink your reference dig. It is reference for a late 70's film. What about that do you not understand.

Also,I have already stated that those ROTJ scenes aren't out of focus, which really makes me question if you have seen them or are just jumping on the bandwagon of all of the other bashing posts the rips have generated.

I can't be bothered anymore, it is impossible to be objective on this forum with so many cheap shots being taken. When the professionals come out with their reviews, perhaps they will agree with you, but then they will be disagreeing with just about everyone else that has given their opinion of the discs to date, not just me.

I hope you enjoy the discs round your friends house, because clearly you aren't buying them as they are complete rubbish.

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by DanzG

Merlinpants enjoyed them for what they are and he was just giving his opinion about how he thought they looked. He even took the time to talk about the special features and give information about what was on the bonus disc and so on and he just got jumped on. He even said numerous times that he was no expert at reviewing movies and that it was just his opinion. I am just amazed how people can disrespect someone when they did nothing at all but tried to help other people who were not as lucky as to have the movies yet.

Thank you. It isn't worth it.

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by DanzG

Merlinpants enjoyed them for what they are and he was just giving his opinion about how he thought they looked. He even took the time to talk about the special features and give information about what was on the bonus disc and so on and he just got jumped on. He even said numerous times that he was no expert at reviewing movies and that it was just his opinion. I am just amazed how people can disrespect someone when they did nothing at all but tried to help other people who were not as lucky as to have the movies yet.

I appreciate the time he´s spent answering questions and giving his opinions on the blu-ray, as i´m sure all of us here do. I simply believe that he is being misleading, especially in regards to The Phantom Menace. I´m sure that some will agree with him and think it looks great when they see it on their setups but I think it would be a disservice to those here that are more discerning about PQ to stay quiet and not point out that the film has been massively DNRed, that it is clearly visible not just in screencaps but in motion as well, and anybody that had issues with the DNR in Patton, the Predator ultimate edition or the first Gladiator blu-ray release is going to have similar issues with this film.

At least me and Merlinpants agree on the fact that the OT looks nice and that most should be very happy with the PQ, though they are definately not ´reference´ blu-rays IMHO.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Making a judgement on something you haven't actually seen for yourself ranks as fairly idiotic in anyone's book.

Not that you can see that.

Who's making a judgement on something they haven't seen?

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Seriously, if you have seen them, that is your take. Mine is my opinion. Why do people struggle with that? Name another film made in '77 that looks anywhere near as good as thus and then rethink your reference dig. It is reference for a late 70's film. What about that do you not understand.

Not wanting to get into this argument at all, but I saw TPM on Blu and I agree with you. Its a bit soft and it seems some DNR has been applied (I noticed Liam Neeson's hair seemed waxy at times, not all the time just every so often). I also don't think the HD has treated Jar Jar and most of the CGI characters well, they look more fake now to my eye. Maybe its just me? Not sure. Anyway, I would give it a 3.5 out of 5 as it is still much much better than the DVD. I had very high expectations for it and what I got didn't live up to those expectations. Par the course with the PT...lol.. Anyway, still getting that set. Its got a good PQ, just not a GREAT PQ.

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

I appreciate the time he´s spent answering questions and giving his opinions on the blu-ray, as i´m sure all of us here do. I simply believe that he is being misleading, especially in regards to The Phantom Menace. I´m sure that some will agree with him and think it looks great when they see it on their setups but I think it would be a disservice to those here that are more discerning about PQ to stay quiet and not point out that the film has been massively DNRed, that it is clearly visible not just in screencaps but in motion as well, and anybody that had issues with the DNR in Patton, the Predator ultimate edition or the first Gladiator blu-ray release is going to have similar issues with this film.

At least me and Merlinpants agree on the fact that the OT looks nice and that most should be very happy with the PQ, though they are definately not ´reference´ blu-rays IMHO.

WOW, he gave HIS OPINION about how he thought the film looked. If you disagree then that is your right but just because he feels that way does not make it absolute. You all are acting like he gave the final word about how these films look and if you don't agree then you will be shot or something. He is not misleading anyone!

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

I appreciate the time he´s spent answering questions and giving his opinions on the blu-ray, as i´m sure all of us here do. I simply believe that he is being misleading, especially in regards to The Phantom Menace. I´m sure that some will agree with him and think it looks great when they see it on their setups but I think it would be a disservice to those here that are more discerning about PQ to stay quiet and not point out that the film has been massively DNRed, that it is clearly visible not just in screencaps but in motion as well, and anybody that had issues with the DNR in Patton, the Predator ultimate edition or the first Gladiator blu-ray release is going to have similar issues with this film.

At least me and Merlinpants agree on the fact that the OT looks nice and that most should be very happy with the PQ, though they are definately not ´reference´ blu-rays IMHO.

I only wish I could post a screenshot of the qui Gon picture where you can see wrinkles, individual hairs on his beard and pores on his face instead of the waxy screenshot from the rip that I even mocked up as a candle. I am happy to say I joined in on the bashing and was horrified by that picture it would never have made me cancel the order, because the source was always something other than the disc. The actual blu frozen at the same point does not look like that shot. What more can I say. If that is misleading people, what are you doing giving it a 2 and saying it is a DNR mess when you don't even have it.

Don't just rely on my opinion. Check out the numerous other comments from other members about how good TPM looks and us not dnr'ed to death. Perhaps we are all misleading people, but I for one have no agenda. Do you?

[aiman04]

So the DNR in The Phantom Menace is as bad as Predator UHE? That's really bad. I don't know if I will be able to watch The Phantom Menace then because I can't stand Predator UHE.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by aiman04

So the DNR in The Phantom Menace is as bad as Predator UHE? That's really bad. I don't know if I will be able to watch The Phantom Menace then because I can't stand Predator UHE.

Oh...the Predator UHE is the gold standard of horrible (if there is such a thing..lol). TPM is nowhere near that. Yes, it has some shady moments, but nothing in the league of Predator. It is still 100 times better than the DVD or broadcast HD verisions. It is just not the revelation some (including yours truly) were expecting. It should not deter anyone from picking up the Complete Saga or PT set.

[Beast]

Grand Moff Tarkin: "This Bickering Is Pointless!"

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Don't just rely on my opinion. Check out the numerous other comments from other members about how good TPM looks and us not dnr'ed to death. Perhaps we are all misleading people, but I for one have no agenda. Do you?

If I had an agenda, I would be trying to bash the OT blu-rays because those are the ones I really wanted and then cancelled my preorder because they´ve had the most objectionable changes added, like Vader´s noooooooooooooooooo! at the end of ROTJ and Obi Wan´s changed krayt dragon call in Star Wars. Yet I´ve been praising the PQ of the OT, giving all the films 4/5 for PQ, a high rating in my book, though clearly not as high as your almost reference 4.5/5 which I don´t agree with personally.

I have the ability to take screencaps so I will borrow my friends copy if hes okay with it and post up some screencaps taken directly from the blu-ray of The Phantom Menace for you and others to see what I mean when I talk about the rampant DNR.

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

No agenda?!?

Do you actually READ what you type here?

At least *I* admit my bias.

LOL, I have no bias. I give my opinion to those who wanted to know. Star Wars means as much to me as every other film I own because it is just a film. A good fun enjoyable popcorn romp. The debate in here creases me up sometimes as people treat it as life or death. I don't. I have an objectivity that many in here lack, so perhaps as I have already said, many of you will deeply disagree because of your agendas. The PT doesn't offend me, so I don't call it a DNR mess to have a pop. The OT is from 30 years ago and I think they have done a fantastic job bringing it into the modern HD format but I really don't have an opinion on two words being added to vader which amounted to 2 seconds of screen time in over 12 hours of film.

Some will find and dwell on every little flaw because of this, and there are flaws. These aren't perfect by any stretch. I would hope that not having an agenda or bias as you put it would be valuable to a lot of the forum readers as my view was not distorted by any preconceptions or lack of extras or films.

But I have learned my lesson. My first foray into the world of Star Wars forums will be my last. It is just not worth my time, effort or headache.

P*ss on me once and tell me it's raining, p*ss on me twice, time to move on.

Out.

[mikezilla2]

so what are all the things that are missing etc ?

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Not wanting to get into this argument at all, but I saw TPM on Blu and I agree with you. Its a bit soft and it seems some DNR has been applied (I noticed Liam Neeson's hair seemed waxy at times, not all the time just every so often). I also don't think the HD has treated Jar Jar and most of the CGI characters well, they look more fake now to my eye. Maybe its just me? Not sure. Anyway, I would give it a 3.5 out of 5 as it is still much much better than the DVD. I had very high expectations for it and what I got didn't live up to those expectations. Par the course with the PT...lol.. Anyway, still getting that set. Its got a good PQ, just not a GREAT PQ.

Originally Posted by Jay444

Oh...the Predator UHE is the gold standard of horrible (if there is such a thing..lol). TPM is nowhere near that. Yes, it has some shady moments, but nothing in the league of Predator. It is still 100 times better than the DVD or broadcast HD verisions. It is just not the revelation some (including yours truly) were expecting. It should not deter anyone from picking up the Complete Saga or PT set.

Ah, thanks! That's a relief. Because I would rate Predator UHE 2/5 the most. I can accept a 3.5/5, just what I expected from the screenshots I've seen. The only one that looked really bad was that Qui-Gon shot, others looked nice with good details.

Thanks for your replies!

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

If I had an agenda, I would be trying to bash the OT blu-rays because those are the ones I really wanted and then cancelled my preorder because they´ve had the most objectionable changes added, like Vader´s noooooooooooooooooo! at the end of ROTJ and Obi Wan´s changed krayt dragon call in Star Wars. Yet I´ve been praising the PQ of the OT, giving all the films 4/5 for PQ, a high rating in my book, though clearly not as high as your almost reference 4.5/5 which I don´t agree with personally.

I have the ability to take screencaps so I will borrow my friends copy if hes okay with it and post up some screencaps taken directly from the blu-ray of The Phantom Menace for you and others to see what I mean when I talk about the rampant DNR.

Seriously, don't bother. I could pull up some individual frames highlighting the DNR without any problem. The issue is your overall stance. In motion, this is not a DNR mess by any stretch. Check out Jay444 above. He has a good take on it. I marked higher but that is personal opinion. Check out CRS who got the set first. He says the same, soft in places but not a DNR mess and aintitcool call it excellent which is a bit of an over exaggeration. I am not debating this anymore because it is pointless and adds nothing. You were never getting the PT which highlights your agenda. You have convinced yourself why your decision was right. Let's move on now.

It is going to be Armageddon in here in a few days time. I am stepping aside.

[mzupeman]

I think what just happened in this thread to Merlin is a prime example of why Lucas cares so little about the opinions of the rabid fan base. He knows there's no pleasing them. Thanks for your opinions and time, Merlin.

[Beast]

Yeah, outside that one shot of Qui-Gon that has become a rallying point for hate... TPM doesn't look bad at all from the images that have been posted. And that Qui-Gon shot looks terrible on the original DVD as well. It looks to have a heavy filter on the camera or something. So there's a very weird look to it, which got carried over and intensified by the process they used on the Blu-ray. Most of TPM looks a lot like Aliens, which also had a similar De-Graining job done to it without destroying the fine detail. Can't wait for my copy of the Complete Saga as that's the first film I'll be watching.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

BB dropped the price of the Saga set to $79.99 on their site, so you probably don't need the Target ad. Just have them match their own price. Walmart dropped their price to $79.99 as well.

ya i will be at the bestbuy door before 10am waiting to purchase my copy of the complete saga i didnt want to preorder cause i dont want to wait!! first thing friday morning

thing that sucks is i am going camping that afternoon for one night with my sister and her husband ( a night of partying for me ) which i dont get really anymore.

its good to hear from some that the reviews are great on these. how do these guys get them early to review??

[Cinescott]

I have little doubt that these Blu-rays will look and sound pretty spectacular. Now, the content is a whole separate debate.

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

I think what just happened in this thread to Merlin is a prime example of why Lucas cares so little about the opinions of the rabid fan base. He knows there's no pleasing them. Thanks for your opinions and time, Merlin.