Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

The simple solution to all of this bickering: Include both versions of the OT with the set.

Why does Lucas need to? Short answer is that he doesn't. He has no reason at all to kowtow to whining fanboys.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by MCT

and you know what, Beast? I know exactly what you mean when you say this. In THEORY, it should have been the beginning of a story that put the OT to shame. But the execution was just not there. I honestly can see Lucas' vision in the PT. It should have been grand and epic in scope. Palpatine playing the entire Jedi Order AND his own allies as if they were pawns in his own personal chess game and his seduction of Anakin to the DS was probably the one aspect of the story that Lucas got somewhat right, though I feel he neglected Palpatine's influence on Anakin in AOTC too much to convey a sense of understanding when he finally did. Again, though.....sloppy execution. Had he gotten a more accomplished director/writer to tell his story, as he did with the OT, we wouldn't be having this little debate. I'd probably be the biggest PT fan in the world if he had just gotten it right.

Back to the problems Lucas has with the Guild with TESB/RotJ and led to him paying Kirshner's fines and leaving the Guild.

Lucas himself is the first to say that he hates directing people or doing dialogue. He likes doing visuals and is great at it... but also the other part is that he's financially self-sufficient and doesn't have to do any studio's bidding. He does what he wants and gives the finger to those that don't like it and is powerful enough to get away with it. It's his toy and he's playing with it, regardless of how much anyone whines, people will beg him for the privilege of paying for it. Star Wars is a money printing machine.

I agree with you, though, a LOT of his execution was far less than it could have been. But the point most hater of the PT miss is that it's not all that different in substance from the OT. They just don't have the rose colored glasses of nostalgia protecting the PT. It's all pretty much corny schtick with great SFX. But it's on purpose and Lucas is emulating the serials he loved as a kid.

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Why does Lucas need to? Short answer is that he doesn't. He has no reason at all to kowtow to whining fanboys.

Yeah! You're exactly right. We should lap up anything Lucas gives us and like it! Because if we say anything other than Lucas is infallible then we're just fanboys!

Wait, what?

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Beast

Disagreed. He shouldn't have to release cuts of the films he's unhappy with.

You guys have VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD copies of those cuts to enjoy.

Would it hurt you to have both versions? I don't think that it would be that much of a hassel to release both versions. Many, many people would love to have both versions. The people who want one or the other seem to be the extreme minorities.

True fans of the series can value both the OOT and SE as you can see the changes that were made and how Star Wars evolved as well as the films that made history.

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

Would it hurt you to have both versions? . . .

Yes, because it would prove that his god is fallible. That would be painful for anyone. Please try to have some sympathy. And do not question The Lucas.

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

True fans of the series can value both the OOT and SE as you can see the changes that were made and how Star Wars evolved as well as the films that made history.

Now you're just being silly. True fans of the series only what what The Lucas gives them. Praise The Lucas and accept his offerings gladly and unquestioningly, or else you're just a whining fanboy.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Lucas himself is the first to say that he hates directing people or doing dialogue.

Which is why he should have brought another director on board to co-direct the prequels or something like that. I'm not saying that the performaces in the OT were Oscar-worthy, but compared to the performances in the PT, they were superior. And that's extra sad when you consider that most of the OT cast were unknowns and were relatively new to acting, while most of the cast of the PT was made up of relatively well known actors who have been well complimented on previous rolls that they've played.

Most any problems with the OT can be easily and reasonably explained due to limitations of the time (including technical limitations, budget/resource limitations, Lucas's inexperience as a director for the first movie, etc). The PT has far feer reasonable excuses. Lucas had pretty much unlimited resources at his disposal. He just didn't use them as wisely as he could have and should have.

[aggienader08]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Yeah! You're exactly right. We should lap up anything Lucas gives us and like it! Because if we say anything other than Lucas is infallible then we're just fanboys!

Wait, what?

Infallible - a word most commonly used in association with George Lucas; used approximately 10 times in the past 3 pages of this thread.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Yes, because it would prove that his god is fallible. That would be painful for anyone. Please try to have some sympathy. And do not question The Lucas.



Now you're just being silly. True fans of the series only what what The Lucas gives them. Praise The Lucas and accept his offerings gladly and unquestioningly, or else you're just a whining fanboy.

You're right, I must be off the Kool-Aid

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

Would it hurt you to have both versions?

Me personally? Not at all. I own both versions myself. LD and DVD.

I don't think that it would be that much of a hassel to release both versions.

Other than the fact it would take a great deal of time and money to fully restore and prep the original versions of every movie on BLU. A lot of wasted time and expense for versions of the film that the creator considers subpar and not worth re-releasing. So yes, it would be a huge hassle.

Many, many people would love to have both versions. The people who want one or the other seem to be the extreme minorities.

They may indeed love to have both. George Lucas feels the original versions arn't worth it.

True fans of the series can value both the OOT and SE as you can see the changes that were made and how Star Wars evolved as well as the films that made history.

"True Fans"? There's no such thing as "True Fans".
Not when fan opinions of the various films are all over the map.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Yeah! You're exactly right. We should lap up anything Lucas gives us and like it! Because if we say anything other than Lucas is infallible then we're just fanboys!

Former federal agents fired for excessive brutality aren't going to come to your house and force to purchase the latest edition.

Wait, what?

Ah, a moment of clarity. FINALLY

[Beast]

Originally Posted by aggienader08

Infallible - a word most commonly used in association with George Lucas; used approximately 10 times in the past 3 pages of this thread.

Yet has only been used in a snarky manner by those who scream and cry that he isn't.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Which is why he should have brought another director on board to co-direct the prequels or something like that.

From the Guild? He can't and won't. Ever. Unless the Guild bends over and kisses his butt, his bridge with them got napalmed.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Uxi

From the Guild? He can't and won't. Ever. Unless the Guild bends over and kisses his butt, his bridge with them got napalmed.

Indeed. After all, we have to remember he wanted Spielburg to direct RotJ.

But the A-Hole Director's Guild would have fined Spielburg for doing so.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Other than the fact it would take a great deal of time and money to fully restore and prep the original versions of every movie on BLU. A lot of wasted time and expense for versions of the film that the creator considers subpar and not worth re-releasing. So yes, it would be a huge hassle.

Well, I really don't see why Lucas would have to worry about the amount of time that it takes.

I understand that if it is time consuming it would be difficult to start it now and have it ready in time for next year's Blu-Ray release. But they could be released on their own sometime after the fact.

Since George Lucas doesn't care much about those versions, he would have little to no reason to take his time and marticulously oversee the restoration of it. He could deligate that out to someone else to do and spend his time doing/working on something else.

As for the money factor, sure, it would be pricey in general terms. But this is George Lucas we are talking about. This kind of money for him is like the price of a Coke from a vending machine for the rest of us.

Given how rich he has gotten from the fans who have rebought the movies over and over again on their various theatrical and video releases, not to mention the various array of merchandise over the years, I don't think asking for this to be released is that absurd of a request.

Originally Posted by Beast

Indeed. After all, we have to remember he wanted Spielburg to direct RotJ.

But the A-Hole Director's Guild would have fined Spielburg for doing so.

But even though Spielburg didn't do it, he still did get another director to do it. I'm sure he could find someone outside of the guild to do it, or even afford to pay fines for having some smaller director do it. The other director wouldn't even have to direct the visual effects or anything like that. They could just help tighten up the story and get better performances from the actors.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by AintNoSin

In the OT's, CG was non-existent. They used old-fashioned rotoscoping effects for the sabers in the OT.

It is embarrasing to admit it, but I didn't know that. I thought rotoscoping was pretty much a dead issue after Ralph Bakshi.

[DJ_NachoMan]

I don't post often on any forums but i somewhat feel the need to chime in here as a hardcore Star Wars fan. While I may only be 26 years old and my opinion may not be as important as some of the other senior hardcore fans who lined up to see the original in 77 - i feel compelled to say the following:

I am and always will be a huge fan of the Original Trilogy. Prequels, while they are good in their own way will NEVER match anything that the OT was able to accomplish. Perhaps with the exception of saber fights and FX. In terms of story and character development the Prequels are pretty offensive....But with that being said I can say i welcome all 6 films being released on blu-ray with open arms....

I must conclude that with each and every single re-release of the original trilogy i am happy with the changes. With the exception of The Han / Greedo scene everything is fine to me. I DO NOT CARE who shoots first, it's the awkward twitch that Han makes to avoid the laser blast that bugs me.....

Additionally, i can't personally understand the grudge that a large portion of fans have against the changes made to the Original Trilogy. They are so few and far between that the majority of people barely notice them....Yes Boba Fett's voice is changed, some walls are removed to show bespin, Some of the old model X-Wings are replaced with CGI, an Ewok song is changed, a few scenes are changed here and there (for the better imho) but nothing that drastically effects the film. It's still the same film....moreover, when you factor in the fact that each film is roughly 2 hours and 20 minutes long, i would guess there are less then 15 minutes of DRASTIC changes to each of the original films. It doesn't seem like much of a factor to me.....

I can relate and understand George's desire to continuously update and re-tinker with HIS films. I was watching his interview with John Stewart at Celebration V and he admits the only reason he was so successful was his inability to bend over for anyone and be stubborn. The fact that he stuck to his guns and made what he wanted was the only reason Star Wars was such a success. I can't imagine what it would have turned out like if Fox was able to manipulate George to change things around. Star Wars is what it is because George is a stubborn a-hole, i say let him keep doing so....

Star Wars is arguably the most successful film franchise in history and he is creating it for a new Generation of fans. This is apparent with the Prequels and especially the merchandising, video games, and the Clone Wars cartoons. The fact that he is improving the Original Trilogy in an attempt to appeal to his new generation of fans shows his love of the franchise as he simply won't let it die. Some may call this greed - but i see it as a way to keep your dream and hard work alive.

I hope one day to sit down with my own children and watch Star Wars with them. Hopefully they won't simply disregard the films because they are "OLD". I find a lot of kids this generation simply won't watch a film because it appears to be old and dated. Maybe they are spoiled by today's standards of film where the picture quality and FX are at a certain level - but kids HATE old movies..... I hope that George's attempts to immortalize the Original Trilogy will keep generations of fans (old and new) interested.

I know i'm going to get burned for this post but i feel i have made some valid points here which some will agree with and i respectfully understand those who do not. I thank anyone who took the time to read my long winded post. If my Star Wars fanboyism is in question feel free to check my Home Theater Gallery and you will see. Please mind the photos are quite out of date - I replaced that old LCD with a UN46B8500 =).

[bandit29]

Maybe Lucas will finally fix this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBQaL...layer_embedded

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Former federal agents fired for excessive brutality aren't going to come to your house and force to purchase the latest edition. :whip . . .

No, but for some reason some still feel compelled to call us whining fanboys when we express anything other than praise for Lucas's work and decisions.

[Beast]

Good posting DJ NachoMan.

[supercutz]

Originally Posted by Beast

Go watch the old documentaries about Return Of The Jedi.

They were restrained in what they could offer cause Sy Snootles didn't work as a puppet.

One of the biggest problems being her mouth, which could only barely open and close.

Plus was attached by a somewhat obvious wire to her microphone. Which was another problem.

Then why not just fix Sly (make her CG w/o changing the whole scene and song)? There are ways to "fix" things that didn't work w/o ruining it