Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

It's funny, for someone so concerned about everyone giving the PT a "fair shake", you do as much as you possibly can to discredit the OT.

You're just glossing over 3 movies that stood the test of time for over 20 years before the PT was made and insisting that the only/best way to view this is to start in 1999 and end in 1977.

People didn't need the first 3 episodes to explain the force or anything to them because the first trilogy released did a fine job of that on it's own.

QFT

[Zuiun]

Originally Posted by happydood

You can hate the execution of the prequels, but I don't know that you can really argue plot logic in light of the many inconsistencies of the old trilogy and in this established universe.

It's not these small level inconsistencies in the OT that are the problem regarding plot logic. Or even the larger inconsistencies bridging the PT to the OT.

As a matter of fact, I'd say that the OT proves the point that inconsistencies don't matter as much if you have a strong story. The OT is, above all, about the Hero's Journey and Good versus Evil. These are such basic, strong storytelling tropes that they allow the audience to almost instantly relate to the OT, despite the space-fantasy setting. Sure, Lucas' focus gets a little dicey by the time Jedi rolls around, but by then it doesn't matter because the audience is already hooked. It also doesn't matter that Lucas switched gears a bit between ANH and Empire (regarding Vader's identity), because the broad logic of the story works to trump the minor continuity / logic lapses.

The PT suffers from no solid theme - until it's too late - and this makes its storytelling faults all the more apparent.

TPM kicks off with all flash and style and virtually zero substance. When I refer to substance, I don't mean the convoluted politics. I'm referring to basic-level storytelling. The conflict in the film is rendered impotent because a) we know Kenobi and Anakin are in no real danger (and, really, Qui-Gon is so wooden and uninteresting that the audience simply can't relate to him), and b) even the "war" consists of one CGI army fighting another, giving it all of the suspense of watching someone else play a video game.

This lack of meaningful conflict continues through ATOC, again, because we already know the fates of all major characters, and like Qui-Gon before them, the two wildcards (Windu and Dooku) frankly aren't given enough personalities to matter.

It isn't until ROTS that we start to get some real (if clumsily handled) consequences with the crumbling relationships between Kenobi-Anakin-Padme. This effectively gives us two films of exposition to get to the payoff of Episode III.

(Yes, it could be argued that a person watching the films for the first time would not have this foreknowledge... however, this is not how the films were presented to the world. If they were presented to the world, as is, it would be interesting to see if any films would have been made beyond TPM.)

And to that, add that the PT effectively undermines one of the strongest emotional impacts of the OT - namely the fact that not only does our hero (Luke) have his hatred of Darth Vader ripped out from under him in Empire, but so does the audience. This is a HUGE lapse in storytelling logic on the part of Lucas. He took his strongest hand and... folded it.

On the one hand, I can appreciate the efforts Lucas went through to try to link the PT to the OT, but on the other, I don't like the fact that he did so at not only the expense of a solid, emotional story through all three PT films, but also at the expense of much of the impact of the OT.

But like I've said before, all 6 films are still fun to watch. My set is slated to arrive tomorrow (thanks Amazon), so I know what I'm doing this weekend...

[tweed81]

Just watched Attack of the Clones on Blu Ray and noticed a change that I have not seen mentioned before. Dooku's escape has been slightly edited. Anakin now wakes up earlier in the scene. The music has been edited as well. Thats actually what made me notice the difference as I found the insert of the force theme a bit jarring. Just compared it to the DVD and its definately changed.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

The same thing could be said about you. You don't tolerate the opinion that all six movies are equally good.

I have no problem with someone liking all 6 movies. It's just when those people start to imply that anyone who feels differently isn't a "real fan", that's where I take issue.

I tolerate any opinion even people who don't like Star Wars at all. I just can't stand pitching the two trilogies against each other and trying to blow up the whole saga from the inside.

Well that's a big contradiction right there. You say that you tolerate the opinions of others, but then get angry when people who like the OT a lot and don't care as much for the PT make comparisons between them, and point out what they feel worked about the OT and how they don't feel the PT measured up by comparison.

You have no problem pointing out the mirroring and symbolism between the two trilogies. That's basically the positive equivelant of what other people are doing when they compare the two trilogies as I described above.

Plus, you get upset when people don't look at the 6 movies as one big Saga instead of 2 trilogies, yet the fact that one half of the Saga mirrors the other half, and you are making comparisons on that basis, you are comparing the two triloges as opposed to looking at it as a cohesive story to a certain extent.

Especially when it concerns people who haven't seen the movies yet and should watch them as the artist intended in chronological order and not in some made up order or backwards or whatever. There IS one legitimate order to watch the movies in and multiple opinions how to watch them in different sequences...

Except that the artist's "vision" has been an ongoing moving target for some time now. What the guy considers to be his vision one day isn't necessarily what his vision is the next.

So there are at least 2 orders that can arguably be considered to be equally legitmate... the order in which the films were released, which is how the vast majority of people who have seen these movies (regardless of their opinions of them) experienced them, or the numerical order of the episodes. Both options have their advantages and disadvantages.

You're making a big issue and problem out of the issue and people that haven't seen the movies yet think there is some kind of argument to be had. You have made up your mind about these movies as have I - why shouldn't others be allowed to do the same with this BluRay set?

I'm not saying that others shouldn't be allowed to make up their own mind, but shouldn't it at least be an informed decision? There is info in the OT that makes aspects of the PT easier to understand. There are aspects of the PT that as far as I can tell were deliberatly handled in a manner that assumes the viewer already has knowledge from the OT. But there is also some merrit to watching them 1-6. Unfortunately there is no clear cut answer.

It's the same with the Matrix trilogy. I really got into Matrix with Reloaded which explored new ground and is my favorite. Many people hate the sequels... But I would never argue to watch Reloaded first, then The Matrix "as a flashback" and then Revolutions...

I actually liked Matrix Reloaded a lot. That's one thing we can agree on. I didn't care as much for Revolutions, though.

Just watch movies in order! It's pretty easy... and goes for the Godfather, LotR, Alien, Matrix as well as Star Wars. Why make such a fuzz about it?

None of those other films series were released out of order, though. It's a competely different situation. No one is going to argue to watch a series of movies out of order that was initially released and experienced in order. But when a series of movies is released out of order, that's a different story. You aren't comparins apples to apples here.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by scraptor

I think the same goes for the PT. It sucks the wonder right out of the stories. It makes the force scientific instead of numinous.

It does no such thing. midis were just another way of saying "the Force is strong in my family." Anything else is invention on the part of an individual's own interpretation, with all their bias with it.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You can do whatever you want. Your ship has sailed a long time ago. But why should anyone without any predesposition who watches the movies for the first time adopt your childood-nostalgia?

By the way: You proved my point! You DID watch the OT in order and not TESB as a flashback to ANH... Why is that?

What kind of a question is that even? It's a space opera with a continous storyline, with a beginning and an end and the movies are called Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4, Episode 5 and Episode 6. In what order should i watch these?

Because they happened chronologically and, here's the big one... were released in that order!.

Why didn't I watch Spider-Man 3 first?! Why didn't I watch The Matrix Revolutions first? Why didn't I start with Dexter season 5 and work my way back?

Not exactly a big conspiracy theory. "Childhood nostalgia"? No, more like an order that existed for 20 years and needed no backstory.

What you're insisting is that the story people grew up with and fell in love with all became a farce when the new trilogy was introduced.

I can't even do this anymore. You aren't even trying to be logical or fair or any of the other things you keep asking people to be. If you won't even play by your own rules, I guess it's game over.

[SonOfArathorn]

So I ordered mine in January and it's still not even preparing to ship... Should I be worried?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

What kind of a question is that even? It's a space opera with a continous storyline, with a beginning and an end and the movies are called Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4, Episode 5 and Episode 6. In what order should i watch these?

Look at the Godfather: Coppola did a TV version in which he reordered all the segments in Part I and II sequentially, instead of using flashbacks. (He also added lots of extra footage, but it was also censored for TV). Personally, I liked the flashback approach better.

The 2nd Indiana Jones movie takes place before the 1st. Should one watch them in release order or by story chronology? What about X-Men or Star Trek? Should one watch the reboots/origin stories before or after the films that came before?

So I think the case can be made for a variety of ways to watch.

Some people will want to watch in release order: 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3
Some people will want to watch in episode order: 1 - 6.
Personally, I think the best order is 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. So you get the Luke Story, you 'flashback' to find out how it all began and how Anakin became Vader and then you get the resolution of it all.

But there's no right or wrong answer. The confusion is why people would even argue about it. The only people who should even be asking the question are those who have never seen it all.

[Zuiun]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

There IS one legitimate order to watch the movies in

Quick point: Lucas made the special editions of the OT as a proof of concept for the PT. At that time, he had the choice of making the PT and THEN re-releasing the OT to theaters in order to preserve this so-called "legitimate" order, but he did not. Get off your soap box about "legitimate" order.

[Goat3000]

Originally Posted by SonOfArathorn

So I ordered mine in January and it's still not even preparing to ship... Should I be worried?

I am trusting Amazon on this. It's like they wait to ship so they can send it 2 day via UPS. Any other way and it may arrive pre release date or arrive late.
This is usually how it works with new releases and I have never had problems. But with the anticipation of this set, I am fighting the panic that is slowly creeping in...

[Colonel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by Pure-Evil

but isn't it creepy as HELL that she goes from taking care of him like her own child calling him cute little kid etc kinda stuff in one movie to rolling around in the grass getting it on not long after?

What's the big deal? Even though she cared about him and he liked her as well, they barely had any time during Phantom Menace to get really close in a family kind of way. Once the whole ordeal was over Amidala went back to Naboo being a queen and Anakin went to Jedi Training. So basically they only knew each other for a few days during the events in Phantom and then they didn't see each other for 10 years. Despite their early affection and Anakins growing hormonal obsession with her over the years, they were still like strangers when they met again in Attack of the Clones. I fail to see the creepy part about their relationship.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Has anyone found Easter eggs?

[happydood]

Originally Posted by Zuiun

Quick point: Lucas made the special editions of the OT as a proof of concept for the PT. At that time, he had the choice of making the PT and THEN re-releasing the OT to theaters in order to preserve this so-called "legitimate" order, but he did not. Get off your soap box about "legitimate" order.

I definitely don't think Lucas cares what the generation that grew up with Star Wars thinks about his new order. He's always said he made these for kids and that's who we was addressing this time around. It might not be right, but I get the sense that that is the way it is.

Had I not been a kid when I saw the originals, I might not have the unholy attachment to them I do, so I was happy to get The Prequels and take them for what's cool in them even if they didn't meet all my expectations. It's completely impossible for anybody who did grow up with the originals to see them in a fresh new order. You can't see them with fresh eyes, so you can't say what a kid watching them would or would not get.

How's this for sacrilege? I'll probably show them to my daughter in 1-6 order, skipping some things in Episode III for gruesome content. I really want to see how she reacts. Plus I can show them to her at a younger age, since Episode I is a kid's movie after all! This is a compromise my wife was willing to make. Now I just have to wait for my daughter to be old enough to process these images.

My god, I just realized how horribly irresponsible I sound! In the words of Homer Simpson: "I was raised by the t.v. and I turned out t.v."

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Because they happened chronologically and, here's the big one... were released in that order!.

Why didn't I watch Spider-Man 3 first?! Why didn't I watch The Matrix Revolutions first? Why didn't I start with Dexter season 5 and work my way back?

Not exactly a big conspiracy theory. "Childhood nostalgia"? No, more like an order that existed for 20 years and needed no backstory.

What you're insisting is that the story people grew up with and fell in love with all became a farce when the new trilogy was introduced.

I can't even do this anymore. You aren't even trying to be logical or fair or any of the other things you keep asking people to be. If you won't even play by your own rules, I guess it's game over.

When did I say the OT is a farce? I like the trilogies equally and the beaty is that they both benefit from each other instead of being competetive or repetative.

Listen, it's not about you and me. Of course, both of us have been growing up with the OT and watched it first of course. You can do whatever you want and you could even argue that you want to watch the OT first with a newbie to see his reaction to the "I'm your father reveal" or that you watch the OT first on Blu-Ray because you personally have fond memories of them... That's an argument I could go along with but to say "Don't watch the PT first because it has bad acting a weak story, deals with stuff we I'm not interested in in the first place and destroys the real trilogy." sounds a bit hostile in my ears.

Just for balance: Could you name 3 things you actually really liked about the PT?

[frogmort]

Why not just watch IV,V,VI, I,II,III, IV,V,VI.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

When did I say the OT is a farce? I like the trilogies equally and the beaty is that they both benefit from each other instead of being competetive or repetative.

Listen, it's not about you and me. Of course, both of us have been growing up with the OT and watched it first of course. You can do whatever you want and you could even argue that you want to watch the OT first with a newbie to see his reaction to the "I'm your father reveal" or that you watch the OT first on Blu-Ray because you personally have fond memories of them... That's an argument I could go along with but to say "Don't watch the PT first because it has bad acting a weak story, deals with stuff we I'm not interested in in the first place and destroys the real trilogy." sounds a bit hostile in my ears.

Just for balance: Could you name 3 things you actually really liked about the PT?

Witnessing the rise of the Empire
Getting to know the Jedi Order
Natalie Portman
Lots of lightsaber battles
Exciting new worlds and races

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by chip75

But the low budget movie they intended to make in-between Episode IV & V: Splinter of the Mind's Eye expanded on their relationship. So Lucas didn't really have any grand plan.

Loved that book!

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Why not just watch IV,V,VI, I,II,III, IV,V,VI.

I'm going to do 1-VI and then theatrical release order, then I might do it all over again, who knows?

[greg_achen]

All this talk about chronology and what order to watch films has me wondering.

Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, The Last Crusade?

OR

Temple of Doom, Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Last Crusade?

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

I'm going to do 1-VI and then theatrical release order, then I might do it all over again, who knows?

Me too 1~6, but I do like to switch it up sometimes. I really like to watch 3 & 4 back to back. In a weird way, it makes 4 feel different to me than it used too, in a good way.