Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by octagon

How so? What does that addition bring to the table? Does it tell us something we didn't already know? Does it make us feel something we didn't already feel?

It's the climax of the rising tension and pain of Anakin. We see many repetetive shots of Vader watching his son die. Why not highlight the final shots of him with his verbal rejection of the emperor. It makes us feel more connected to Anakin and his struggle.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You have to admit, if it would always have been Vader yelling "NOOO" you would LOVE IT and would defend to no end!

Like the way people LOVE and defend to no end the "NOOOOOOOO" that's always been at the end of Sith?

[Jason520C]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

I understand that ROTS lacks the "punch" people keep mentioning, but it sounds like the mix isn't as heavy on LFE as the other two prequels. There's still lots of bass going on - it's just not in the lightsabers anymore, as far as I could here, and a bit less ground-shaking oomph in the explosions.

If we were discussing the mix, I think we could all agree it's not as well-done. As far as the AQ of the Blu-ray itself though, ROTS is as good as the other two. The audio transfer is tremendous as far as its detail, actually - occasionally surpassing the others by my estimation.

I think some people may just be a little bit too obsessed with their subwoofers (but I've always felt that way about HT systems, to the point where I keep my sub a bit quieter than most people so it doesn't ever overwhelm the other speakers).

Yeah that's basically what I meant. It sounded amazing don't get me wrong, but it is a different type of mix than the other prequels.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by nmycon

I have to agree

It's not unwatchable... Predator was unwatchable to me. I returned it for the MPEG-2 version

I just hate looking at the sky and not seeing any grain at all, when I know it should be there.

Thankfully there's a bit more detail than most heavily DNRd films *cough* Universal *cough* but any more noise reduction would have really wrecked the transfer.

On the contrary, I thought this was far worse than The Big Lebowski, Scarface, or any of the other recent Universal catalog titles people moan about.

The Big Lebowski was smooth, but at least the edges were defined, the contrast was strong, the colors were bold and the whole image had some depth.

The Phantom Menace is devoid of all fine details in faces, hair, clothing etc. but it's also murky, dark, crushed, undefined... IMO it looks horrible for a 1999 big-budget movie. A missed opportunity of the highest order.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by nathan_393 View Post
I think some people may just be a little bit too obsessed with their subwoofers (but I've always felt that way about HT systems, to the point where I keep my sub a bit quieter than most people so it doesn't ever overwhelm the other speakers).

I'm somewhat similar. I don't like recognizing that a subwoofer is playing either, though notice the frequency is missing when off. When the sound stagerum just flows together with the low end all the way to the high and spect That said, the importance of a good non-boomy subwoofer is heavily appreciated! The sub adds that extra presence/power to a lot of things but when used above what should be it makes things worse on the AQ.


----
I haven't watched them all but I agree that with others that are disappointed with The Phantom Menace. I hope the other two newer films look much better.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

It's the climax of the rising tension and pain of Anakin. We see many repetetive shots of Vader watching his son die. Why not highlight the final shots of him with his verbal rejection of the emperor. It makes us feel more connected to Anakin and his struggle.

Haha, speak for yourself, please.

I don't need things verbalized for me, especially when the camera panning to and fro was incredibly obvious on it's own and worked without a verbalization for 28 years.

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

It's the climax of the rising tension and pain of Anakin. We see many repetetive shots of Vader watching his son die. Why not highlight the final shots of him with his verbal rejection of the emperor. It makes us feel more connected to Anakin and his struggle.

There is no need for it! We can see how he is feeling! IMO the only reason why you say this stuff is to bait people into arguments!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

It's the climax of the rising tension and pain of Anakin. We see many repetetive shots of Vader watching his son die. Why not highlight the final shots of him with his verbal rejection of the emperor. It makes us feel more connected to Anakin and his struggle.

LOL, throwing him down a power shaft didn't quite get the message across?

It's one thing to say the change is inoffensive.

But a 'clear improvement' that adds absolutely nothing to the scene?

Eh, sorry.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

IF that scene was always the way it is now, then nobody would have anything to complain about.

That's exactly right! I don't champion any change. There may be some changes I just don't care that much about, like if Han shoots first or last (couldn't care less!) but the bigger changes like Hayden in RotJ f.e. are just great!

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by stevo1978

Is it just me, or does anybody else like the Nooooooooooooo in Jedi.. I have always thought there should be some reaction from Vader.. It's his fkn son for **** sake..

Nah, I don't like it. I would have preferred the proverbial, "AHHHH, HE11 NO!"

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by atexp80

But, but...... now that Vader gets to say something the poor Emperor is left with no vocalisation of his thoughts. Well, unless you count "AAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!"

2018 re-release:

Vader: No. Nooooooooooooooo.
Emperor (falling down reactor shaft): "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! Oh darn: AAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!"

Lol exactly.

The Emperor should also say NOOOOOO and Luke should say YESSSSSSS just so everyone is very clear on how everyone feels during this scene.

Next, Hayden Christensen's ghost should speak to Luke, and go "Luke, Luke, it is me, your father, Anakin, before I went to the dark side! That's why I look like this!" so that change is made more obvious for everyone.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

But he isn't saying "I am conflicted now!" He says nothing, he just utters his pain of seeing his son be killed. Don't exaggerate! You have to admit, if it would always have been Vader yelling "NOOO" you would LOVE IT and would defend to no end!

I would also enjoyed it if the Alien in Alien said "I'm gonna get you Ripley!" then shouted "Noooo!" as it was blasted out of the airlock....

Vader is and will always be basically a Silent Screen villain, Frankenstein's Monster. He doesn't need anymore dialogue. George Lucas knew that in 1983 shame he doesn't now....

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's exactly right! I don't champion any change. There may be some changes I just don't care that much about, like if Han shoots first or last (couldn't care less!) but the bigger changes like Hayden in RotJ f.e. are just great!

Hahahaha, that change is nonsensical for about 100 different reasons, but we've been down this road too many times now.

As another member just said, it's pretty clear you just take this stance to bait people into arguments. I'm not going to argue this one again.

[Mavrick]

I was pretty dissapointed by the "Lightsabre Construction" deleted scene, or Vaders Arrival and Reaching out to Luke as it's called on the disc.

He doesn't really construct the lightsabre just pushes a tiny latch up and a few LED's flash

The main focus of that scene was to set up the possibility that Luke had joined the Dark side not focus on the lightsabre.

[KrugStillo]

Originally Posted by Cinescott

Here's a pretty technical article on the current state of the Star Wars OT camera negatives:

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

In summary, the OT could be restored at basically any time at an estimated cost of about a million dollars. Certainly not chump change for any of us, but for George Lucas, it's probably affordable. Compared to the OT restoration cost in the 90s of twenty million, it's pretty cheap. Interestingly, 20th Century Fox foot the bill for that one.

The things that shocked me from this article was the truly bad state the OCN was in prior to about 95 or so. It was almost lost due to bad film stocks, but was caught in time and everything (including all the original scenes) was saved and archived (in the Fox vault in Kansas). While true that special edition scenes were edited in to negative film stock, they could as easily be edited out and replaced with original material. At worst, there would be a loss of 1 or 2 frames surrounding some of the wipes. Note that only the original material that was spliced out in the 90s would need any restoration work and some of that may not need any other than cleaning.

Also, it's interesting to note that George Lucas loaned YCM Labs his own personal 1977 Technicolor print of Star Wars in the 90s for color comparison during the restoration, since Technicolor does not fade with time. Quoting YCM, George said, "that's the Star Wars I made." Make of that what you will.

The point is that for any flaws in the Blu-rays (and apart from the changes, they look pretty good IMO), the finger should be pointed at George Lucas, not Lowry, since GL approved every second of these transfers. John Lowry is on record saying he expected Lucas to be back for new high definition transfers after 2004, but it never happened. Most likely, given the new effects in the special editions were rendered at ~2k (which was fine for theatrical prints), George Lucas saw no reason to render any of the films higher than that for HD, since it would only bring out gaping flaws. Once again, Blu-ray shows itself to be often better than the medium it is trying to emulate (film).

Amazing post. Very informative and it really makes it obvious that this blu-ray release is Lucas's thing and it is most definitely all we are gonna see for quite a while. Regardless, I am thoroughly enjoying the BD release and even the minor changes I am getting used to. This is definitely the best looking release we've ever gotten despite the fact that maybe it could be a bit better but with a significant amount of work that needs to be done. Actually if I read this article correctly these "Special Edition" versions are now and always will be 1920 by 1080 2K and if that's all Lucas wants out there this is what we get. Oh well I'll just enjoy what I have and be happy with it. Thanks for the article, great stuff.

[Shaft Windu]

Sure, and Henry Fonda in "12 Angry Men" didn't want to condemn the suspected murderer JUST to bait the rest of the jury into an argument! Don't embarrass yourselves!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by VenomBrock

I finally got to watch TPM from start to finish this afternoon, and...man, oh man, I can't believe how many "oh there's a little DNR, but it's very well done" comments I've seen about this disc.

On my 50", this disc looks absolutely slathered in DNR to the point where it distracted me from the film. Any shots with Natalie, Liam or Jake especially showed off what they had done to this poor disc. It's such a shame - you can see the potential is there with the new master they created...and then they absolutely wrecked it. Ugly ugly UGLY.

Since the film underwent heavy digital manipulation (pretty much EVERY shot has some sort of digital effect or enhancement) is it the transfer or is the grain reduction in the original element itself? That might just be the reason they added so much EE to the DVD is to make up for the perceived lack of sharpness that is now "clear" on Blu-ray.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

But he isn't saying "I am conflicted now!" He says nothing, he just utters his pain of seeing his son be killed. Don't exaggerate! You have to admit, if it would always have been Vader yelling "NOOO" you would LOVE IT and would defend to no end!

And with you defending Lucas at pretty much each and every turn no matter what, if Vader had said "NOOOO" from the get go in the original release of the movie, but it was then removed for this new Blu-Ray release, you would be defending the change up and down saying how much more powerful it is with him reacting silently and how much more "symbolic" that is, etc. So you are scoring no points with this statement.

The point is that the scene as it already existed worked fine for 28 years. This was an unnecessary change, and one that can't be blamed on lack of available technology in the early 80s or anything like that (and had the situation been reversed, with him saying "Nooo" from the get-go and it being removed now after 28 years, it would still be just as pointless and unncessary of a change).

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Amazing post. Very informative and it really makes it obvious that this blu-ray release is Lucas's thing and it is most definitely all we are gonna see for quite a while. Regardless, I am thoroughly enjoying the BD release and even the minor changes I am getting used to. This is definitely the best looking release we've ever gotten despite the fact that maybe it could be a bit better but with a significant amount of work that needs to be done. Actually if I read this article correctly these "Special Edition" versions are now and always will be 1920 by 1080 2K and if that's all Lucas wants out there this is what we get. Oh well I'll just enjoy what I have and be happy with it. Thanks for the article, great stuff.

Great stuff, except it's only heresay and has had several "facts" debunked.

Fanboy tabloid journalism.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

I was pretty dissapointed by the "Lightsabre Construction" deleted scene, or Vaders Arrival and Reaching out to Luke as it's called on the disc.

The main focus of that scene was to set up the possibility that Luke had joined the Dark side not focus on the lightsabre.

The lightsaber scene was okay I guess but what if it didn't work if that was the first time Luke had assembled it? "Well time for Plan B Artoo!" It would have been fun to see the green blade for the first time in theatres and I liked his Sonic Screwdriver but it was best left cut. It would have spoilt the Sail Barge scene knowing Artoo had his lightsaber hidden.

One question the video showing the scene posted a few days ago, was that directly taken from the Blu? It shows Vader coming off the shuttle onto the Death Star as well.