Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Not really a surprise but still pretty cool! I dont think there are really any boycotters though...

I want to say "They didn't put their money where their mouth is" but I guess they have actually paid money for the Blu-Rays Well done!

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by The Doof

Ah, another "nope"-er.

"Nope:" when you don't have any means of defending a position, bring out the "nope" and stick fingers in ears.

"Nope": Because I'd be wasting my time having to list the dozens of plot holes that would result from it and the dozens of plot holes you have no idea how to fill in before he fights Kenobi.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Hatter

"Nope": Because I'd be wasting my time having to list the dozens of plot holes that would result from it and the dozens of plot holes you have no idea how to fill in before he fights Kenobi.

name one.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Colonel Kurtz

Hilarious. I know this will be even more off-topic, but would you explain to me in a nutshell what I need to realize in order to understand that Aliens had nothing to do with the Alien universe, except for some cornerstones like, I don't know, Weyland-Yutani, Ripley, the aliens, hypersleep chamber etc. etc.?

In Alien we were shown a believable and interseting future. In Aliens there are just 80s marines running around and blasting puppets as if they weren't supposed to have acid as blood. It's dumb and dated.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

What's there to defend? I have made my point! The battle on Naboo is a fun with JarJars mishaps and the Gungans fighting the battle droids. If this is a Video-Game than the battle Stormtroopers vs Ewoks is Halloween-cosplay-party. I have made my point about video games like "Battlefield" and "Medal Of Honor" also. I'm more interested in human drama than in military tactics and gritty gunfights.

Hahahahahaha. "Fun mishaps" indeed.

That scene is totally ruined by all the Jerry Lee Lewis pratfalls and hijinks from Jar Jar. It's totally ridiculous, cringe-worthy stuff, possibly my biggest issue with that whole movie.

ROTJ Ewoks and Troopers battle is pretty bad as well, but at least Ewoks aren't bumbling around going MEESA OOPS OOPS MEESA and accidentally killing whole batallions of enemies.

That whole battle is a farce. There are no stakes, so there is no dramatic weight, and what passable tension could have been there is entirely purged by Jar Jar's stupid shenanigans.

Anyone a South Park fan?

"Jakovasaurs" are Jar Jar to a tee:

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Not really a surprise but still pretty cool! I dont think there are really any boycotters though...

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I want to say "They didn't put their money where their mouth is" but I guess they have actually paid money for the Blu-Rays Well done!

yeah, not really a surprise. I thought some were boycotting but I imagine a lot who complain still bought a set.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Hahahahahaha. "Fun mishaps" indeed.

That scene is totally ruined by all the Jerry Lee Lewis pratfalls and hijinks from Jar Jar. It's totally ridiculous, cringe-worthy stuff, possibly my biggest issue with that whole movie.

ROTJ Ewoks and Troopers battle is pretty bad as well, but at least Ewoks aren't bumbling around going MEESA OOPS OOPS MEESA and accidentally killing whole batallions of enemies.

That whole battle is a farce. There are no stakes, so there is no dramatic weight, and what passable tension could have been there is entirely purged by Jar Jar's stupid shenanigans.

Anyone a South Park fan?

Jakovasaurs are "Jar Jar" to a tee:

Don't forget, apparently all that stupid JAH JAH stuff in that battle was originally intended for Wicket. As soon as the Creator had kids it was game over for SW.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by Colonel Kurtz

Hilarious. I know this will be even more off-topic, but would you explain to me in a nutshell what I need to realize in order to understand that Aliens had nothing to do with the Alien universe, except for some cornerstones like, I don't know, Weyland-Yutani, Ripley, the aliens, hypersleep chamber etc. etc.?

Simple, just make a comparison with Avatar. Voila, practically the same movie. Heck, you can even just look at it this way, does one really need to have seen Alien to watch Aliens? Most people who have watched Aliens really just started off with that movie and then went back to watch the original Alien much later. So in turn, Aliens isn't much of a sequel as it was more of a reboot. Ripley was also underused as a character in Aliens, the bulk of it was focused on those god awful space marines. Hypersleep chamber and evil corporation (Weyland), how the heck do you need to be in the Alien universe for those elements to be in a movie? Heck, there's been MANY hypersleep chambers before even the original Alien introduced it. As for having the aliens, that's probably the only connection Aliens really had with the original Alien. Apart from that, Aliens might just as well been called something completely different and been just as successful. Oh wait, Cameron already did that, he made Avatar.

Heck, one can make a successful argument that all 4 Alien movies were kind of independent of each other since starting from Aliens, each one was essentially a reboot.

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

What's there to defend? I have made my point! The battle on Naboo is a fun with JarJars mishaps and the Gungans fighting the battle droids. If this is a Video-Game than the battle Stormtroopers vs Ewoks is Halloween-cosplay-party. I have made my point about video games like "Battlefield" and "Medal Of Honor" also. I'm more interested in human drama than in military tactics and gritty gunfights.

Really? This seems like an oxymoron to me. The PT is riddled with CGI laden battles that reek of videogame play. The opening battle of ROTS is ten times longer and larger than anything ever seen in the OT. Every single battle in the PT is 100 times the scope of anything in the OT. I cannot even recall a COD, Battlefield, or level in MOH that had as many fake CGI characters on the screen at one time as the PT battles have. You're grasping at straws and you keep painting yourself into a corner when you make statements like that which can easily be proven to be wrong when placed against evidence.

[Show spoiler]

[AltaDef]

Alright, you people need to stop comparing Aliens to the PT. Maybe Aliens didn't have great acting or fully developed characters, but guess what? The PT was much much worse in both departments.

The bottom line is that Aliens is an entertaining, well-made action film that is still talked about 25 years after it's release, while the SW prequels are boring, horrendously-written films that in 15 years will be largely forgotten except by deluded fanboys.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by AltaDef

Alright, you people need to stop comparing Aliens to the PT. Maybe Aliens didn't have great acting or fully developed characters, but guess what? The PT was much much worse in both departments.

The bottom line is that Aliens is an entertaining, well-made action film that is still talked about 25 years after it's release, while the SW prequels are boring, horrendously-written films that in 15 years will be largely forgotten except by deluded fanboys.

I agree with you 100%.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

If you somehow dislike these movies you will always look for and find inconsistencies. You will be even happy to find them and gloat about them because it proves your initial feeling right.

Frankly for me, it tends to be quite the contrary. I am looking for consistency, and in some cases it comes up short.


Unfortunately I didn't manage to watch most of the OT this weekend as I was planning due to some things that came up, but I did watch part of ANH (and I watched the PT over the course of a few days after getting the set on release day).

Some things really just stick out at me and bug me about how the PT doesn't quite line up with some of the dialogue from the OT. Specifically the following couple of bits:

*When Obi Wan tells Luke that his Uncle (Owen) wanted his father (Anakin) to "stay here" (meaning Tatooine) instead of going off to fight in the clone wars.

*When Bearu tells Owen that Luke "has too much of his father in him."


Now, some peope will argue that I'm nitpicking, but this to me is very important. Both of these lines of dialogue strongly suggest that Anakin was really close with Owen and Bearu. Perhaps that Owen and Anakin were actually brothers (as in blood-relatives) and not just step-brothers that met years later... though the semantics of their specific relation aren't as important as the implied closeness. They could have been step-brothers, but still could have been close.

This dialogue suggests that Anakin actually lived on Tatooine for some time while knowing Owen, that they were close, and that Anakin at some point left to go fight off in the wars. Further, Bearu's comment seems to come from a place of positive reflection upon Anakin. As if she is remembering some kind of positive-adventurous spirit that Anakin was known for at the time.

But in the PT, as far as we can tell/are shown, Anakin goes back to Tatooine to find his mother, and that's when he stumbles upon his step-family, and he and Padme stay there for maybe a day or two tops while Anakin is all angry in his attempts to find his mother, locates her and goes off and slaughters a bunch of sand people, and then comes back stewing about his mother's death, then takes off and as far as we know, never returns.

So, where is this closeness? Where is Owen wanting Anakin to stay behind? Where is Bearu getting this positive view of Anakin from? Owen's repose to Bearu's comment, "That's what I'm afraid of", make sense in relation to Anakin's behavior in the PT, but where is this implied closeness that we get in the OT? That's never shown or even implied in the PT.


This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts... even more so than stuff that we were hoping to see in the PT but instead are just told that it happened sometime offscreen in between the PT films (because at least in those cases those things still happened within the story). Some will probably argue that I'm reading to much into things, or will pull out the old "certain point of view" line. Yeah, okay, that line worked well to explain what Obi Wan said about Anakin's father in ANH, but does that really have to apply to everything else? Are we to believe that Obi Wan is just some crazy old man who's mind is going and keeps going out of his way to look at EVERYTHING, even small minor details from a "certain point of view" which when presented will pretty much purposely lead the other person to believe something that isn't true at all?

The problem is that the dialogue not only suggests a closeness, but even brings into question how the Jedi order works. As I said earlier, if Owen didn't want Anakin to leave (as Obi Wan says), that suggests that Anakin lived with him for a while... probably until he was at least the same age that Luke is in ANH. So, would he have already been a Jedi at that point? Whether the answer is yes or no, it raises all kinds of contradictions in regards to the age at which a Jedi gets trained, WHERE they get trained, for how long, etc.

Between these statements, as well as Obi Wan saying that Luke's uncle didn't agree with his father's ideals, it just raises more and more questions. (Owen would have to have gotten to know Anakin to even come to understand what his ideals were).


This isn't me "looking" for things to nitpick. These are things that jump out at me as being contradictions. I am watching the movies in the order that the artist now "intends" them to be seen, despite the order in which they were made. I get to the OT films and hear things that are meant to describe the way things were during the time that the PT takes place, and in a number of ways it doesn't match up with what I just watched. The only line that should be a contradiction is Obi Wan saying that Darth Vader killed Anakin since that gets explained away in the following film. Plus even in ANH it kind of works given Obi Wan's hesitation in answering the question. Whether or not Lucas intended it this way when he filmed it, Obi Wan hesitating and then telling Luke something that doesn't match up with the OT makes sense. But the rest of it should add up.

Now, if you disagree, if it doesn't bother you, if you can ignore it, or if you somehow embrace it as is because of some explanation that you can apply to it from other "myths", hey that's fine. But this is how I see it based on the info that I am presented with.

[Hemooo]

I just started watching episode 3 when explosion sound present in the opening title from one of the rare speakers??? i watched too many movies and this is the firsttime I had this? Any ideas what is happening? Is it the disk? The speaker??

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by AltaDef

Alright, you people need to stop comparing Aliens to the PT. Maybe Aliens didn't have great acting or fully developed characters, but guess what? The PT was much much worse in both departments.

The bottom line is that Aliens is an entertaining, well-made action film that is still talked about 25 years after it's release, while the SW prequels are boring, horrendously-written films that in 15 years will be largely forgotten except by deluded fanboys.

Not really. Aliens is REMEMBERED as being great and many a times when people say it's great, it's based on those initial impressions of the film rather then the film standing on its own. Star Wars on the other hand, love it or hate it, is constantly being judged on what it is in the here and now more so than the "It's a great movie because I had a great time watching it when it first came out" (which is basically what people are actually saying when they talk about how great Aliens is, but for non-Aliens fanatics, we see it as another one of Cameron's spectacles that aren't great as a film but good as a popcorn muncher when it came out). Yes Star Wars gets criticized for changing the originals but on the other hand, the universe and mythology is discussed in the context of the Star Wars films as opposed to Aliens where there is tremendous love for Cameron's Aliens but when discussing the narrative and mythology, much of that happens outside the realm of Cameron's Aliens since Aliens was very thin on narrative.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by The Doof

Don't forget, apparently all that stupid JAH JAH stuff in that battle was originally intended for Wicket. As soon as the Creator had kids it was game over for SW.

Sad but true.

I really wish it were possible for someone to just rip off Star Wars wholesale and make a new series of movies out of it. We need another space opera in our lifetime with the potential that Star Wars had (and occasionally actually met). The underlying myths and themes are great. Keep The Force, the wise Jedi Yoda philosophy stuff, the Jedi vs Sith, the space battles, the lightsabres, the speeder bikes, the seedy watering holes, the rogue smugglers and bounty hunters, and cut out the kiddie nonsense like Jar Jar, Ewoks, Anakin "Yippee!" Skywalker, farting CGI creatures, etc. and you've got an excellent base.

The Matrix had the potential to be as good and as enduring as Star Wars initially, but I think they totally squandered it with the sequels. They fell into the same trap Lucas did and went the "kitchen sink" angle, throwing way too much at the viewer with no time for character or plot development, and no time to reflect. Just CGI battle sequences, inexplicable happenings that are just attributed to "The Matrix" the same way everything inexplicable in SW is attributed to "The Force"...

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I'd love to see Lucas loosen the reins and let other filmmakers take their own crack at Star Wars. Don't call it canon, call it EU, don't allow them to market toys and merch from it if that's what it's all about, but let the Star Wars universe that has been given to us be expounded upon by people who want to legitimately make films and not extended toy and video game commercials.

[MCT]

Is this what its come to for PT apologists? Tearing down Aliens while defending TPM?? LULZ

Abandon all hope ye who enter this thread

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by The Doof

name one.

Luke Vader killed your father. How would he know? He just left Anakin to die as Anakin.

Darth Vader: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.

Darth Vader: I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now *I* am the master.


If you pay attention actually, Lucas hints at it several times in A New Hope. Vader admits Kenobi kicked his butt the first time as an apprentice. If Ben later faced Vader as suit Vader for the first time and beat him, why would he run off to Tatooine? He would have won. Those references don't work anymore if we use your version.

A sith lord tells you to kill everyone but doesn't assign you a name? Please.

So we're supposed to watch a prequel trilogy about Anakin for three movies just to see him perhaps die, skip all those references in ANH and still be clueless to the fact Vader is Anakin? Please. It can't be done. Accept it.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Sad but true.

I really wish it were possible for someone to just rip off Star Wars wholesale and make a new series of movies out of it. We need another space opera in our lifetime with the potential that Star Wars had (and occasionally actually met). The underlying myths and themes are great. Keep The Force, the wise Jedi Yoda philosophy stuff, the Jedi vs Sith, the space battles, the lightsabres, the speeder bikes, the seedy watering holes, the rogue smugglers and bounty hunters, and cut out the kiddie nonsense like Jar Jar, Ewoks, Anakin "Yippee!" Skywalker, farting CGI creatures, etc. and you've got an excellent base.

The Matrix had the potential to be as good and as enduring as Star Wars initially, but I think they totally squandered it with the sequels. They fell into the same trap Lucas did and went the "kitchen sink" angle, throwing way too much at the viewer with no time for character or plot development, and no time to reflect. Just CGI battle sequences, inexplicable happenings that are just attributed to "The Matrix" the same way everything inexplicable in SW is attributed to "The Force"...

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I'd love to see Lucas loosen the reins and let other filmmakers take their own crack at Star Wars. Don't call it canon, call it EU, don't allow them to market toys and merch from it if that's what it's all about, but let the Star Wars universe that has been given to us be expounded upon by people who want to legitimately make films and not extended toy and video game commercials.

Hey, we always have Battlestar Galactica!

Originally Posted by MCT

Is this what its come to for PT apologists? Tearing down Aliens while defending TPM?? LULZ

Abandon all hope ye who enter this thread

Not too big of a fan of the PT but Aliens is just way overrated. TPM was way worse, but still, Aliens is not great cinema. More like a precursor for Transformers.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by dookiex

Simple, just make a comparison with Avatar. Voila, practically the same movie.

Apparently we get very different things from movies.

Aliens has space marines in common with Avatar. And a director.

Otherwise, no, not so much "practically the same movie".

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by dookiex

Simple, just make a comparison with Avatar. Voila, practically the same movie. Heck, you can even just look at it this way, does one really need to have seen Alien to watch Aliens? Most people who have watched Aliens really just started off with that movie and then went back to watch the original Alien much later. So in turn, Aliens isn't much of a sequel as it was more of a reboot. Ripley was also underused as a character in Aliens, the bulk of it was focused on those god awful space marines. Hypersleep chamber and evil corporation (Weyland), how the heck do you need to be in the Alien universe for those elements to be in a movie? Heck, there's been MANY hypersleep chambers before even the original Alien introduced it. As for having the aliens, that's probably the only connection Aliens really had with the original Alien. Apart from that, Aliens might just as well been called something completely different and been just as successful. Oh wait, Cameron already did that, he made Avatar.

Heck, one can make a successful argument that all 4 Alien movies were kind of independent of each other since starting from Aliens, each one was essentially a reboot.

Wow. How you think Signoury Weaver was 'under used' in a film she was nominated for best actress in is beyond me. Oh, and just because there are Marines in Avatar and Aliens does not make them the same movie. Very different themes, very different characters.