Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Just because I liked the change doesn't mean I feel it was necessary or required. I don't need to be handheld throughout the saga. I think it resonated with me as a parent because you'd expect that kind of pure reaction if your child was in danger (then again he tried to take his head off just a few minutes prior).

Just making the point that while I was initially against it (and feel it isn't necessary) that I can still enjoy it and the thrill it gave my initial viewing.

Sorry, I still don't get it.

[Coov]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Sorry, I still don't get it.

You wouldn't... and I would guess you never will.

All would be resolved by releasing the original theatrical versions... you know, like all other NORMAL directors release.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Sorry, I still don't get it.

What he means is: He feels the change/addition to the scene works, but he feels ultimately it was an unnecessary change because he understood what was happening the first time around.

See, this is why Lucas needs to stop changing the films around. His audience cannot read subtext or understand subtle indications anymore. They are spoon fed.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Jay444

What he means is: He feels the change/addition to the scene works, but he feels ultimately it was an unnecessary change because he understood what was happening the first time around.

See, this is why Lucas needs to stop changing the films around. His audience cannot read subtext or understand subtle indications anymore. They are spoon fed.

The change has absolutely NOTHING to do with being spoonfed. Everyone "understood" the scene before as they do now. It's a change that adds to the emotional intensity and the reaction of someone who even intended to hate the changes and has seen the scene multiple times before is a more than strong confirmation that it does actually deliver. If it can send chills down your spine it seems to indicate that Lucas was right to adjust the scene. After all it is the climactic moment of the entire saga...

[MrJoeKalel]

Has anybody else experienced aspect ratio problems while playing some special features?

Originally Posted by Jay444

The whole plot point of Kamino being missing annoyed me. I know Obi Wan goes looking for it in the Jedi Archives, but its not like the Jedi Archives are the only maps in the galaxy. Like the dude couldn't have gone to his local space port and buy a map? It isn't like Dooku erased Kamino from every map in the known galaxy. I just thought that was kind of silly.

However, that is the only plot point with Obi Wan that bothered me. I found his part of ATOC to be quite entertaining.

I'm sure it has to do with Kamino being outside the 'outer rim' or something like that. I would say the planet was in the outside of the galaxy, it's like if you have a map of a city and then you look at the countryside, and in the countryside there are smaller roads that lead to something...that Google Maps shows it's blank...so you get the idea...I love my analogy. Again, IMO. I still think that not exploring outside the 'outer rim' is weird, but oh well. The whole scene with the younglings I think was also to show Yoda's side as a teacher, allowing the kids to 'shine'.

Originally Posted by georgec

Whelp, might as well post this.

http://savestarwars.com/lucas-nfr.html

In short, it turns out the Library of Congress never had an original print of SW. I guess the UOT is truly dead (almost).

I was watching the Making of a Dewback (or whatever the documentary is called, which is very informative), GL says "I'm an editor...so I save every piece of film...you never know when you're gonna need it...". I mean, if there are like five takes of the scene were the stormtrooper says "Look sir, droids!", I'm sure he has ALL the rest of the footage for Star Wars (ANH), so the whole thing about the 'original' not being available or whatnot is BS. It might take money and time to restore it, yes, but it's there.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82

He is right, the Kessel Run is an 18-parsec route, he managed to do it in 12-parsecs by moving closer to the black holes.

Here's more about the Kessel Run:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

Originally Posted by phansson

No he managed to come up with a good excuse for a mistake he made in the movie.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Are you kidding? Don't you understand the ramification of such a blunder? It can change the entire fabric of the entire saga of Star Wars and I am not even going to talk about what it's doing to the space-time continuum. The fabric of the Universe could come undone because of that one simple mistake. Lucas is EVIL, evil I tell you!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by AlT_3D

Not really, it has been explained and, even if it may have been a mistake originally, that has been dealt with satisfactorily, either through the novels (it was explained well in the newer Han Solo trilogy) or through west end/wookipedia sources etc. It's a fantasy film for christ sakes, not that necessarily is an excuse, but it's been dealt with very well.

We all make mistakes, even I did once.... I thought I was wrong about something!

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Who cares? You guys sound like the characters in The Big Bang Theory (which is a comedy).

I can't believe we're now arguing about the whole parsecs thing, seriously.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Jay444

What he means is: He feels the change/addition to the scene works, but he feels ultimately it was an unnecessary change because he understood what was happening the first time around.

See, this is why Lucas needs to stop changing the films around. His audience cannot read subtext or understand subtle indications anymore. They are spoon fed.

And yet, when Lucas doesn't spoon feed (like how Leia remembers her mother, or why Obi-Wan doesn't remember R2 - which are both explained in subtext or subtle indications), people scream "plot hole!"

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Well, there's still going to be thrust and escape velocity and gravity from the black holes, planets and what not to consider with cargo.

Indeed. Lucas isn't the only guy who failed to think some things through, though. Dynamo really should be talking about mass, which isn't quite the same thing as weight, but has enough of a grasp on it to be dangerous.

Clearly, the retcon has come out about the Kessel Run and it mostly works. Lucas could have just thought it sounded cool and not cared, borked it up, or it could have been in the universe Han Solo talking out his ass. Obi-Wan's smirk seems to say he wasn't exactly impressed in any case.

Just making the point that while I was initially against it (and feel it isn't necessary) that I can still enjoy it and the thrill it gave my initial viewing.

That matches my thoughts on it. People will say what they want about many of the changes but this one works either way.

[aramis109]

Came back from lunch and it looks like Jay and Coov picked up my slack. Thanks fellas. You hit it on the head.

And actually Uxi, while I typically disagree with you (I have read this entire thread) I agree with your post too.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

And yet, when Lucas doesn't spoon feed (like how Leia remembers her mother, or why Obi-Wan doesn't remember R2 - which are both explained in subtext or subtle indications), people scream "plot hole!"

They didn't scream plot hole before he made the PT. He has tried too hard to tie the OT to the PT. The most common thing I read about these changes are: "He tried to match up the OT with the PT." That is incorrect thinking on Lucas' part. It should have been very much the other way around. If you have something that exists for 30 years and for all reasoning cannot be altered (i.e. Leia remembering her mother), then you talior fit the end of ROTS to match the already existing ending of ROTJ. Pretty simple. But he went about it the wrong way. It is what it is. But it should have been a slam dunk in narrative.

Personally, I feel the ending of ROTS would have been much more powerful with Vader not saying a word and using the force to crush everything in the room, end with just his trademark breathing. Would have marked the death of the Anakin without the unitentional comedy. Allowing the audience to sense his seething anger with, god help us, good acting from Hayden. Body langauge can do a LOT when allowed.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Jay444

They didn't scream plot hole before he made the PT.

I also noticed in the PT that he tried to throw "parsecs" in a couple times used the correct way.....

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Watched the deleted Scenes from I-III the other day. There were two in particular that I thought were better than what made it into the films.

The scene were Obi Wan is talking to Jocasta about Count Dooku would of shed a lot light on why he left the Order.

I also thought that the Yoda/Sidious battle in the deleted scenes was much better than what was left on the film.

[Kizzo]

Originally Posted by Jay444

They didn't scream plot hole before he made the PT. He has tried too hard to tie the OT to the PT. The most common thing I read about these changes are: "He tried to match up the OT with the PT." That is incorrect thinking on Lucas' part. It should have been very much the other way around. If you have something that exists for 30 years and for all reasoning cannot be altered (i.e. Leia remembering her mother), then you talior fit the end of ROTS to match the already existing ending of ROTJ. Pretty simple. But he went about it the wrong way. It is what it is. But it should have been a slam dunk in narrative.

Good point... this is the main reason why I wanted a remake of the OT. So that it can better tie in with the prequels. Plus I always wanted to see how the OT movies would look using new technology and special effects. It would be interesting to see how places like Hoth and the fights there would look like in a remake.

It just hard watching the OT after viewing the prequel movies...

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Kizzo

Good point... this is the main reason why I wanted a remake of the OT. So that it can better tie in with the prequels. Plus I always wanted to see how the OT movies would look using new technology and special effects. It would be interesting to see how places like Hoth and the fights there would look like in a remake.

It just hard watching the OT after viewing the prequel movies...

Really? I think some of the effects clean-up and what not make the OT look damned good, even by todays standards. Models, miniatures, and matte paintings can very often look much more realistic than overly-processed CG which tends to be flat and fake to me. Sure, some scenes in the OT are a little dodgy and some of the stuff in the PT looks amazing. But, its not a slam-dunk that the PTs effects are better than the OT. Not by a longshot, IMO!

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Kizzo

Good point... this is the main reason why I wanted a remake of the OT. So that it can better tie in with the prequels. Plus I always wanted to see how the OT movies would look using new technology and special effects. It would be interesting to see how places like Hoth and the fights there would look like in a remake.

It just hard watching the OT after viewing the prequel movies...

I find it the other way around, its hard watching the PT after seeing the OT. Things don't match up when they should have been very easy to do so. Again, it should have been a slam dunk.

If he wrote the PT and perhaps had some help tying things together with the aid of a screenwriter whom was very familar with the OT (Kevin Smith, as much as I dislike him, comes to mind), we wouldn't even have to think: "Maybe he should just remake the OT." Hell, even a good producer could have brought up a few of these inconsistencies. Lucas had neither of those sadly.

By no means do I hate Lucas or feel he is untalented. Just want to get that out there, I love the man's work. I just feel he should have gotten some help. The PT was too much for one man to do on his own especially when you are dealing with such a picky fanbase (we argue about parsecs and how the term was used in the film, that has NOTHING to do with character development or story arc...lol). It sucks to think about what could have been, and see such a talented guy try for force a sqaure peg into a round hole.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I find it the other way around, its hard watching the PT after seeing the OT. Things don't match up when they should have been very easy to do so. Again, it should have been a slam dunk.

If he wrote the PT and perhaps had some help tying things together with the aid of a screenwriter whom was very familar with the OT (Kevin Smith, as much as I dislike him, comes to mind), we wouldn't even have to think: "Maybe he should just remake the OT." Hell, even a good producer could have brought up a few of these inconsistencies. Lucas had neither of those sadly.

By no means do I hate Lucas or feel he is untalented. Just want to get that out there, I love the man's work. I just feel he should have gotten some help. The PT was too much for one man to do on his own especially when you are dealing with such a picky fanbase (we argue about parsecs and how the term was used in the film, that has NOTHING to do with character development or story arc...lol). It sucks to think about what could have been, and see such a talented guy try for force a sqaure peg into a round hole.

Very good points!

I for one think that the effects in the original are more believable than in the PT....

[kenkraly2004]

I've had the star wars saga blu-rays for some time now I enjoy everything about them picture , sound , extras, everything. Sure episode 1 is not perfect transfer on blu-ray because of the DNR issues but it's a decent transfer. The other 5 star wars films on blu-ray look very good though with ROTS and the original trilogy looking the best. Sure some fans are not going to like the new color timing of the OT from 2004 but it's not a big issue for me and some of the error's from the 2004 dvd release's for the OT have been corrected for the blu-ray's. Sound wise the films have never sounded better with the DTS HD Master Audio 6.1 soundtrack on blu-ray. Episode 4 sound's very good on blu-ray and again most of the audio problems from the 2004 dvd release for Episode 4 have been corrected. And the other 5 films of the saga sound good on blu-ray too.

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

The change has absolutely NOTHING to do with being spoonfed. Everyone "understood" the scene before as they do now. It's a change that adds to the emotional intensity and the reaction of someone who even intended to hate the changes and has seen the scene multiple times before is a more than strong confirmation that it does actually deliver. If it can send chills down your spine it seems to indicate that Lucas was right to adjust the scene. After all it is the climactic moment of the entire saga...

really! There was no need to make a change. When I was a kid I remember being on the edge of my seat looking at Vader waiting for to do something, the no takes all that away from the viewer.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by phansson

Very good points!

I for one think that the effects in the original are more believable than in the PT....

I agree with you, I prefer the OT special effects over the PT. Not bashing the PT at all, but I feel the effects are missing a certain weight to them. To my eye it is very cartoony/video game-ish. This sense is only heightened to me with the blu rays (as I am sure the Matte paintings/garbage mattes in the OT are eyesore to those whom prefer the PT effects). The HD really does bring out the flaws in both styles.

To be clear, I am mostly refering to making most of clone troopers (if not all) CGI. While they look cool, I can tell they are a special effect. When they get shot they don't collapse like real person or move like one. I dunno, its strange to my eye is all. Now, the space battles were neat but the explosions were the big give away to me. The asteroid belt in ATOC doesn't look nearly as real as the one in Empire (flying shoe and all). I guess its the sense of 'lack of mass' that bothers me.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

I've had the star wars saga blu-rays for some time now I enjoy everything about them picture , sound , extras, everything. Sure episode 1 is not perfect transfer on blu-ray because of the DNR issues but it's a decent transfer. The other 5 star wars films on blu-ray look very good though with ROTS and the original trilogy looking the best. Sure some fans are not going to like the new color timing of the OT from 2004 but it's not a big issue for me and some of the error's from the 2004 dvd release's for the OT have been corrected for the blu-ray's. Sound wise the films have never sounded better with the DTS HD Master Audio 6.1 soundtrack on blu-ray. Episode 4 sound's very good on blu-ray and again most of the audio problems from the 2004 dvd release for Episode 4 have been corrected. And the other 5 films of the saga sound good on blu-ray too.

I am glad you enjoyed the films in DTS HD Master Audio 6.1 on 1080p blu ray.

Just pickin' on ya a little bit, lol. Not being a jerk.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I am sure the Matte paintings/garbage mattes in the OT are eyesore to those whom prefer the PT effects.

i thought the matte boxes around ships and such were fixed for the Blu release. My main area of concern has been lightsaber consistency, and from the screenshots I've seen, it looks mostly well done.