Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by Beast

And yeah, I would have liked to have seen more of Dooku. And him rather than Maul in TPM would have been interesting. Especially if he defeats Obi-Wan as well but doesn't kill him and then makes his escape. But then his role in AotC would have had to be significantly altered. Since his attempt to seduce Obi-Wan to join him and destroy Sidious together wouldn't have come off as genuine. In the end, it works best the way it was done. At least we get more Dooku love from the Clone Wars series.

I hate to venture too far down "what if" street, but I've always thought there was the potential for a more interesting version of AOTC right below the surface.

Let's say Count Dooku comes to Obi-Wan and says essentially the same thing -- that the senate is under the control of a Sith Lord, and the jedi are incapable of sensing it.

What if it's true? Well, it is true, of course, but what if Dooku actually attempted to recruit Obi-Wan in a quest to destroy the Sith? A couple of renegade jedi, joined by their connection to fellow renegade Qui-Gon Jinn. They try to take care of Palpatine, but the Jedi Order (including Anakin, albeit in a state of internal conflict) sees them as the threat, trying to overthrow the republic.

And then the period between 2 and 3 could have Obi-Wan and Dooku "off the reservation" as they say, having gone rogue. Anakin could buddy buddy with Palpatine while Kenobi's away, and the rest kind of writes itself. I think there's more potential for drama that way, but what do I know?

And hey, while I don't care too much for AOTC, I love ROTS, so I'm not keen on the idea of monkeying around with its story.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah, that exchange of Dialogue from Empire always came off very wooden and soulless.

Lucas really needed to pop up and request them to do it "Faster and More Intense" there.

Except "faster and more intense" wouldn't have suited the situation at all.

They're tired. They're restless. They've got nowhere to go, and no lightspeed (I think?). They've been in constant danger for hours, days.

Look at the way they react to 3P0's hysteria -- being a droid, he has no trouble keeping up the "faster and more intense" pace. Han's too weary to even fire back a salvo. Leia finally just turns him off.

I'd like to see any actors do a better job with that scene so that I could offer them a knighthood.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Col.Zombie

I haven't watched any of them once...yet.

I've been so busy with work I just haven't had the time. But I'm planning a marathon real soon, like in the next two weeks.

I don't know how you manage that....I would have gone nuts not been able to watch them for all this time after buying them

[dcowboy7]

Seeing Nancy O'Dell on a star wars bluray seems....wierd.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by kurtlingle

Funny.

Without the PT, you really don't know who Anakin is.
Obviously, by ignoring the PT, you miss who DV came from.

I don't think someone can fully understand the OT without the PT. If you can't see Anakin, then his redemption won't be as deep/fulfilling/etc.

Anyway, there are 6 Star Wars movies (back to the original point) and all 6 are awesome!

Without the PT, we never needed to know who Anakin was. People fully understood the OT as a trilogy of movies that weren't waiting to be completed for a couple of decades. The X-Men movies work perfectly fine without needing First Class or Wolverine: Origins, either.

Less is often more.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah, that exchange of Dialogue from Empire always came off very wooden and soulless.

Lucas really needed to pop up and request them to do it "Faster and More Intense" there.

Yeah, poring over a computer screen, mulling over your choices is when you really need some fast and intense dialogue.

You should direct movies. I'd be really interested in seeing how they turn out.

[MrJoeKalel]

Thanks for not replying to my last comment, I guess I'm not wrong after all

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

I'd say it's the single worst scene in the entire series. And by quite a margin, too.

I knew AOTC would be (politely) a "mixed bag" at best as soon as I saw it -- namely, five minutes into the first screening in 2002. I remember it being a sad moment; with all the hope that episode 2 would improve the reputation of the series, we slam headfirst into the absolute nadir of the six-film progression. It contains more clunkers than seems possible given the length of the scene.

Typho's "I guess I was wrong; there was no danger at all," is howlingly bad dialogue, horrifyingly delivered. It makes Hamill look like Sir Larry, and Lucas circa 1977 look like Shakespeare.

Something about the fog -- rather than masking the potentially artificial look of the CG environment -- actually seems to reveal just how phony-baloney the surroundings are. "Coruscant -- the entire planet is one big green screen."

Plus, it doesn't really make sense. I don't understand by what logic Corde has failed; she saved the senator by standing in for her, and in the process lost her life. This is failure?

Also, why does Corde have Natalie Portman's voice ten seconds earlier aboard the ship? Yeah, yeah -- we're supposed to believe it's her, and this facilitates that deception, but it's flat out cheating of a kind that isn't really cinematically excusable.

Finally, Portman -- who is a terrific actress, I think we can all agree -- gives probably the worst performance by a lead actor in any Star Wars film (which may be saying something), and it all starts with this scene. To be fair, it all starts with this dialogue, which can't help but inspire lackluster deliveries -- so let's say it's the worst written part in any Star Wars film, even worse than Anakin v.1 or 2.

I'd forgotten how much I loathe that scene; I've studiously avoided thinking about it for almost ten years. Then I saw it again on blu-ray and it all came back. Sorry for venting a decade's worth of spleen. But it could have been a great scene, great performance, great movie, etc. with some reasonably simple fixes. So much lost potential.

Thanks. For a minute I thought it was just me who felt that way. I agree with your expanded explanation of the scene as well. It just feels off.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

To me the worst delivered dialogue scene is in empire where leia & han are talking about going to see lando.

She just mumbles thru the entire thing:


LEIA: What did you have in mind for your next move?

HAN: Well, if they follow standard Imperial procedure, they'll dump
their garbage before they go to light-speed, then we just float away.

LEIA: With the rest of the garbage. Then what?

HAN: Then we've got to find a safe port somewhere around here. Got any
ideas?

LEIA: No. Where are we?

HAN: The Anoat system.

LEIA: Anoat system. There's not much there.

HAN: No. Well, wait. This is interesting. Lando.

LEIA: Lando system?

HAN: Lando's not a system, he's a man. Lando Calrissian. He's a card
player, gambler, scoundrel. You'd like him.

LEIA: Thanks.

HAN: Bespin. It's pretty far, but I think we can make it.

LEIA: (reading from the computer) A mining colony?

HAN: Yeah, a Tibanna gas mine. Lando conned somebody out of it. We go
back a long way, Lando and me.

LEIA: Can you trust him?

HAN: No. But he has no love for the Empire, I can tell you that.

Odd, this was always one of my favorite scenes.

[Brightstar]

this is how jedi should have ended

Exclusive! "Return of the Jedi" ending for 2011 Release! - YouTube

[jrmac2000]

Well guys I hate to say it but after watching Ben-Hur last night, I think Lucasfilm dropped the ball on the star wars transfers. It's not that they are terrible, but compared to the gorgeous restoration of ben-hur I am left feeling disappointed. I hope the Star Wars films undergo a similar 8k restoration in the future.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by jrmac2000

Well guys I hate to say it but after watching Ben-Hur last night, I think Lucasfilm dropped the ball on the star wars transfers. It's not that they are terrible, but compared to the gorgeous restoration of ben-hur I am left feeling disappointed. I hope the Star Wars films undergo a similar 8k restoration in the future.

Could Star Wars look better? Sure. Comparing two different restorations is flawed though. Ben Hur is a 70mm film vs. Star Wars 35mm so it's not as cut and dry as you make it. The differnce in film stock alone can yield varying results in a restoration.

[jrmac2000]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Could Star Wars look better? Sure. Comparing two different restorations is flawed though. Ben Hur is a 70mm film vs. Star Wars 35mm so it's not as cut and dry as you make it.

I know it isn't apples to apples, but my point is they could have done better which you seem to agree with.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by jrmac2000

I know it isn't apples to apples, but my point is they could have done better which you seem to agree with.

Oh no, I agree with you it's just Ben Hur might not be the best comparative example. The restorations from 70mm films I've seen blow just about everything else away. Not because there are not fantastic restorations on 35mm films, but because the 70mm film stock seems to have better restoration potential.

[boxterduke]

Originally Posted by joliefan

this is how jedi should have ended
Exclusive! "Return of the Jedi" ending for 2011 Release! - YouTube

That is just evil

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by jrmac2000

Well guys I hate to say it but after watching Ben-Hur last night, I think Lucasfilm dropped the ball on the star wars transfers. It's not that they are terrible, but compared to the gorgeous restoration of ben-hur I am left feeling disappointed. I hope the Star Wars films undergo a similar 8k restoration in the future.

8K is overkill for anything less than a large format show. You'll never get more than 4K worth of detail out of the original Star Wars flicks. What was it Grover Crisp said about Taxi Driver? It held about 2.5K of detail, but they went for 4K anyway from an oversampling point of view. That movie was shot flat, unlike the anamorphic lensing on Star Wars, but even so it's very much of the same time so it's not a wildly inaccurate comparison. And don't forget the myriad visual effects shots in Star Wars, which lose resolution either by being optical comps (originals) or 2K CG inserts (special editions).

[bullets]

Originally Posted by joliefan

this is how jedi should have ended



Exclusive! "Return of the Jedi" ending for 2011 Release! - YouTube

I don't get it.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Originally Posted by Beast

Heh. I never really understood the fandom for Darth Maul. It was like the fandom for Boba Fett.
And yeah, he sold a boatload of toys and merchandise. And still continues to do so. Which still baffles me.

And yeah, I would have liked to have seen more of Dooku. And him rather than Maul in TPM would have been interesting. Especially if he defeats Obi-Wan as well but doesn't kill him and then makes his escape. But then his role in AotC would have had to be significantly altered. Since his attempt to seduce Obi-Wan to join him and destroy Sidious together wouldn't have come off as genuine. In the end, it works best the way it was done. At least we get more Dooku love from the Clone Wars series. They've done a lot with both Dooku and Grievous. The recent Grievous/Gungan episode was very good.

[Show spoiler]Still was rather shocked at General Grievous murdering Captain Tarpals so brutally in that episode. Always loved Tarpals' character design.

People liked Darth Maul because he looked cool and did a bunch of arcobatics that serve no useful purpose in a fight. I did like the CW episodes with Savage Opress, it expanded a bit more light on Maul.

Now I think the Fett-man got the short end of the stick. I was watching Jedi again last night with out the distraction of the kids, and I thought to myself "man, he went out like a b!tch." Even in Empire, he did not really do anything but walk and deliver a few lines.

[El_Jay]

In case anyone is interested:

Beast -----------------1,754
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chip75-----------------591
Jumpman---------------579
Bluyoda----------------556
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Merlinpants-------------527
Dynamo of Eternia-------517
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[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

In case anyone is interested:

Beast -----------------1,754
P@t_Mtl---------------748
Duffy12----------------594
chip75-----------------591
Jumpman---------------579
Bluyoda----------------556
octagon----------------548
Merlinpants-------------527
Dynamo of Eternia-------517
Chordata----------------470


Beast with an impressive 1006-post lead over his closest rival, P@t_Mtl! Nearly tripling third place!

The hunt is on, folks! It's not too late to post 1500+ times and regain thread supremacy! May the Force be with you all!

1,754 mindless posts and counting.