Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by popeflick

I'm talking live action special effects. You are talking about animated movies like Tin Tin and Cars2. MAJOR disconnect.

Well, not as big a disconnect as you seem to think. Nearly all of the effects in the PT are, basically, CG effects - and that's just computer animation, same as in animated movies that aren't hand-drawn.

Digital effects = digital animation (for the most part).

[happydood]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

http://news.moviefone.com/2012/02/09...ar#postComment

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but how can anybody read this and not hate Lucas?

You're right. He's worse than Hitler.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

George is like his apologists -- he acts like the changes don't really affect the films. But one thing they can't explain is why the change was made in the first place, especially if it didn't really change anything.

It really all comes down to the artistic vision of the filmmaker, imho.

I'd support any artist making changes to his work - and in the case of filmmakers, I'd just as easily support Lucas doing it as I would Kevin Smith or Bernardo Bertolucci. This doesn't necessarily mean I will like the change, but in any case, I think the work of art should be true to the artist's intention, free of intervention from any third parties (whether it be studio bosses or vocal fans).

If you like the general concept of Lucas' universe, but insist that it should be tailored to meet your personal expectations, then you didn't really appreciate it in the first place, imho - you just liked parts of it and chose to remember selectively what you liked about the original films.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

If you like the general concept of Lucas' universe, but insist that it should be tailored to meet your personal expectations, then you didn't really appreciate it in the first place, imho - you just liked parts of it and chose to remember selectively what you liked about the original films.

No one is insisting it should be specifically tailored to meet their expectations - they're asking for the opposite. They want the versions that haven't been tailored for any reason whatsoever - they're asking for the original versions to be released. That is an enormous difference. They're not choosing to remember what they "Selectively liked about the original films," they're asking for the original films in their entirety. If Lucas would just release the originals no one would give a damn how much he continued to change them.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

http://news.moviefone.com/2012/02/09...ar#postComment

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but how can anybody read this and not hate Lucas?

I definitely don't hate Lucas. I thought he did good with the OT originally. I definitely don't respect him anymore though. This is a bad attempt at rewriting history.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

No one is insisting it should be specifically tailored to meet their expectations - they're asking for the opposite. They want the versions that haven't been tailored for any reason whatsoever - they're asking for the original versions to be released. That is an enormous difference. They're not choosing to remember what they "Selectively liked about the original films," they're asking for the original films in their entirety. If Lucas would just release the originals no one would give a damn how much he continued to change them.

Well, I also would like the original OT to be released on blu-ray, but I can understand where GL is coming from. I don't agree with his decision to do it this way, but I respect the decision because they are his movies.

If he doesn't want the original cuts released on blu-ray, it certainly will not happen while he's alive; when he passes away, his kids or whomever inherits the rights to the movies may feel differently.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by happydood

You're right. He's worse than Hitler.

To be fair to GL, if Hitler didn't have that dog it would have been a much closer call.

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Well, not as big a disconnect as you seem to think. Nearly all of the effects in the PT are, basically, CG effects - and that's just computer animation, same as in animated movies that aren't hand-drawn.

Digital effects = digital animation (for the most part).

All of my examples involve real life actors being put into the scenes with other CG characters. You are hung up on pure animation for reasons I do not understand. There is a big difference. ILM's by and large take a back seat to at least 4 or 5 other studios in their quality these days, just one person's opinion and I don't care how busy they are, they're getting by on a reputation that they no longer can meet.

[thirteen]

Just got a ridiculous deal on this! Bought the complete 9 disc set from a guy on craigslist for $50, brand new factory sealed!

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by popeflick

All of my examples involve real life actors being put into the scenes with other CG characters. You are hung up on pure animation for reasons I do not understand. There is a big difference. ILM's by and large take a back seat to at least 4 or 5 other studios in their quality these days, just one person's opinion and I don't care how busy they are, they're getting by on a reputation that they no longer can meet.

Well, in my earlier post I just mentioned the first things that came to mind. However I would refer you again to the link that Stinky posted in the last page: ILM filmography

I think the special effects of many of their most recent projects were pretty awesome, and many of the movies they worked on did really well at the box-office.

As for "Red Tails", I enjoyed it a lot even though I don't think it's the best possible treatment of the source material (or the historical facts on which it is inspired). And the effects in "Red Tails" were pretty awesome, too, imho - the movie has some of the best aerial combat footage of almost any WW2 movie I can think of.

There's a huge difference, though, between the overall quality of ILM stuff and the kind of things that Lucas likes to direct/produce - though I guess that's another issue altogether.

But as for the ILM stuff, they're doing pretty well, imho, and working on quite a few big-budget projects, as well as having done their first animated movie.

[fat_rancor_keeper]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I of course largely agree.

To slightly come to Lucas's defense though, some of the problems that I mentioned earlier that existed in the 1997 version (crappy CGI Jabba, Han looking like crap when stepping on the tail, Han's bad looking head-bob during the Greedo scene) I can kind of excuse at the time since a lot of this was largely experimental at the time. All of this then-relatively new technology was at their disposal, and they were kind of taking it out for a test run before making the PT by trying to add in things that Lucas couldn't do years beforehand.

So with that being the case, I can kind of excuse that to some degree, since it kind of might have been the case of him reasonably getting what he could out of the technology at the time since it was kind of new territory. And had he just decided to leave the films as-is after that for future releases, while I'm sure some criticism would still exist (i.e. leaving that initial crappy CGI Jabba in there), at least there would have been an excuse if he wanted to make the changes and updates a one time thing.

But the DVD release release came out after 2 prequels were in the can and the third was in progress (and the BD release came out years after that). And since additional changes and tweaks were happening anyway, there's no reason that some of the other problematic issues shouldn't have been fixed (and there's no reason that the 2004 ANH Jabba updat shouldn't have looked better). Even if he wants to blame it on the supposed rush job that they did to get the DVDs released, then he had PLENTY of time to get all of this right with the Blu-Ray set. But, he didn't fix most of these issues and just added more half-assed changes instead.

I'll definitely give ILM a pass for the 97 SE problems. Looking back that was an early time in CG/film integration. It was a new world and they were just getting their feet wet. The odds were stacked against them and anticipation was through the roof.

Heck I'll even give ILM half a pass for the spotty 2004 set. Supposedly it was rushed and they wanted/needed more time to work on it. Whatever.

But the 2011 blu-ray? That was arguably the most highly anticipated blu of all time. That set was the main reason some fans bought a Ps3 or blu ray player. That set was supposed to be the crown jewel 6 part saga that ILM had 7 years to get P E R F E C T.

Naaah, no pass for that. Either get that 99% right or hang your heads in shame because you clearly just don't give a f***.

I see the tremendous effort made (with zero budget and zero compensation) by fan editors such as Adywan and then I look at what the highly paid pros have done and I'm in awe.

[Kryptonic]

This thread is still going?

There's this thing called sunshine. You guys should check it out.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

This thread is still going?

There's this thing called sunshine. You guys should check it out.

No, no!!! BRIGHT LIGHT! BRIGHT LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by popeflick

If you've sat through the lousy QC garbage known as the Original Blu Ray trilogy you'd understand what I'm getting at: they're phoning it in!

You're judging an FX studio on 2k master clean up work?

Jackson: his FX in the LOTR were better than anything Lucas did during the PT, and they came out at the same time.

Oh so wrong. LOTR has aged pretty badly, and the HD makes already dodgy shots look worse. The PT is wall to wall effects and they look pretty damned good.

Cars2 has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, but John Carter will have FX that are better than ILM's. Besides, if Oscars are the barometer you want to set when was the last time ILM was even nominated? At least a decade

?

I've seen the trailers for John Carter and the FX is serviceable.

I'm talking live action special effects. You are talking about animated movies like Tin Tin and Cars2. MAJOR disconnect.

Obviously you haven't seen the Iron Man movies, Super 8, Star Trek, the Transformers series, Cowboys & Aliens, etc. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking out of your butt...

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You're judging an FX studio on 2k master clean up work?



Oh so wrong. LOTR has aged pretty badly, and the HD makes already dodgy shots look worse. The PT is wall to wall effects and they look pretty damned good.

?

I've seen the trailers for John Carter and the FX is serviceable.



Obviously you haven't seen the Iron Man movies, Super 8, Star Trek, the Transformers series, Cowboys & Aliens, etc. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking out of your butt...

FOTR which is the worse looking of the 3 looks better than any of the PT's Lucas is not GOD he has become a has-been who became everything he hated when he first started. Side note, how many Oscars did Lucas 6 movies win? How many did Jacksons LOTR 3 movies win? Case closed

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You're judging an FX studio on 2k master clean up work?



Oh so wrong. LOTR has aged pretty badly, and the HD makes already dodgy shots look worse. The PT is wall to wall effects and they look pretty damned good.

?

I've seen the trailers for John Carter and the FX is serviceable.



Obviously you haven't seen the Iron Man movies, Super 8, Star Trek, the Transformers series, Cowboys & Aliens, etc. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking out of your butt...

Well, I'm not - and no one is - talking out of their butt over a difference of opinion. Their stuff might look fine in the examples you listed but I will respectfully submit that any of the other 4-5 fx houses I mentioned earlier could do a superior job. You disagree, fine.

And sorry, but releasing a crappy blu ray of their historical crown jewel is a major strike against them and their current abilities, that should be simple stuff.

[Howdy]

Originally Posted by popeflick

And sorry, but releasing a crappy blu ray of their historical crown jewel is a major strike against them and their current abilities, that should be simple stuff.

Just to be clear, you're talking about the sub-par work done for The Lord of the Rings Bluray, right?

[fat_rancor_keeper]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

This thread is still going?

There's this thing called sunshine. You guys should check it out.

I know all about sunshine.....I'm posting here from my ipad while on a beach in sunny Florida and sipping on an ice cold Corona .

Gotta go...volleyball game with the Miami Dolphin cheerleaders starts in 5 minutes.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I know all about sunshine.....I'm posting here from my laptop while on a beach in sunny Florida and sipping on an ice cold Corona .

Gotta go...volleyball game with the Miami Dolphin cheerleaders starts in 5 minutes.

Wait, isn't it like 11pm in Florida right now?

[fat_rancor_keeper]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Wait, isn't it like 11pm in Florida right now?

Uuuh...it's a night time volley ball game. Yeah that's it!

lol