Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by chip75

Star Wars? I thought this was the digital film vs. old-school-film thread....

I thought it was Original Theatrical vs Many Different Special Editions thread

[darthrazz]

To me, the original version of Return of the Jedi , before the SE and tinkered versions, had a very strong beginning. The whole Han rescue act was very well done and paced. It also takes up a huge part of the movie. It's after that part that the movie suffers. Too bad that Lucas didn't stick with his original ending. I can see Han dying, his character in ROTJ was such a far cry from what he was in ANH and ESB.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by worldwide11

Watched "Return," and am surprised by how unimpressive the film is this time 'round. George's endless revisions have become quite distracting in this one. The "palace dance" is absolutely atrocious. The wookies seem implausible as an ally with whom to kick imperial butt. The forest chase optical effects are less convincing than ever. Vader's "noooo!" is unnecessary.

The trilogy seems to have come off the rails with this one. I used to be as big a fan of "return" as the two films prior. But George's endless tinkering has really turned me off to this formerly very good film.

Well then it's a good thing that it was the Ewoks and not Wookies that the Rebellion teamed up with.

[Snicket]

Originally Posted by LA Times
“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

I have never heard that before, and it sounds EPIC! LOVE it! Sooooo much better than what we ended up getting.

[3Stooges]

Originally Posted by zafisher94

I'm watching the saga for the first time in numerical order with my little brother. I just finished pt 3, so next up is the original trilogy.

It is interesting that depending on which order you watch (considering you're a first time viewer) how different the effects can be. In one sense, you get a great narrative and epic story by watching them in order, but the surprises are also lost, so it's very tough to choose which I prefer so far.

I've been watching the saga for the first time in numerical order too (up to part "4" so far).

I'm now convinced, the only order to recommend to a 1st time viewer is the original release order (4,5,6). And then stop.

The prequels should not be watched first (if ever). Like you, I feel watching the prequels first ruins all the surprises.

Also, if a first time viewer watches the prequels first, chances are they'll hate the series so much they'd never watch the original trilogy.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Snicket

I have never heard that before, and it sounds EPIC! LOVE it! Sooooo much better than what we ended up getting.

Yeah, I'd heard that story many times before. Lucas decided toys were more important than story. I still like Return of the Jedi, but that finale would have been epic, and going in that direction would have made a lot of sense really. Especially with the way Empire ends.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by 3Stooges

I've been watching the saga for the first time in numerical order too (up to part "4" so far).

I'm now convinced, the only order to recommend to a 1st time viewer is the original release order (4,5,6). And then stop.

The prequels should not be watched first (if ever). Like you, I feel watching the prequels first ruins all the surprises.

Also, if a first time viewer watches the prequels first, chances are they'll hate the series so much they'd never watch the original trilogy.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Yeah, I'd heard that story many times before. Lucas decided toys were more important than story. I still like Return of the Jedi, but that finale would have been epic, and going in that direction would have made a lot of sense really. Especially with the way Empire ends.

I really think that's Kurtz butthurt talking there. Lucas hasn't really been about the merchandising or else he would have let others just churn out endless SW product to keep it on the market. Think about it: other than the Ewok films, there was no Star Wars between 1983 and 1997. Not very good for marketing toys.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by darthrazz

TThe whole Han rescue act was very well done and paced. It also takes up a huge part of the movie.

The rebel pan to rescue Han Solo was a bit convoluted though, I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a theory that Luke Skywalker used the Force (like Palpatine in the prequels) to move all the players into specific positions so the rescue could come off successfully! Give Chewbacca to Jabba (he might have shot him and made him into a rug!), the droids, Lando et cetera. They got lucky!

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Yeah, I'd heard that story many times before. Lucas decided toys were more important than story. I still like Return of the Jedi, but that finale would have been epic, and going in that direction would have made a lot of sense really. Especially with the way Empire ends.

I think killing Solo would have ruined it. Everyone would have been bummed out if he'd died. Even the Ewoks wouldn't have been able to cheer us up!

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Think about it: other than the Ewok films, there was no Star Wars between 1983 and 1997. Not very good for marketing toys.

I have the Year By Year: A Visual Chronicle and there aren't blank pages between Episodes IV and I! It may have been off the silverscreen but it ticked along quite nicely. There was a little dip in public consciousness though, just a little. But the expanded universe and Lucas was a busy bee!

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by chip75

The rebel pan to rescue Han Solo was a bit convoluted though, I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a theory that Luke Skywalker used the Force (like Palpatine in the prequels) to move all the players into specific positions so the rescue could come off successfully! Give Chewbacca to Jabba (he might have shot him and made him into a rug!), the droids, Lando et cetera. They got lucky!



I think killing Solo would have ruined it. Everyone would have been bummed out if he'd died. Even the Ewoks wouldn't have been able to cheer us up!

The Ewoks couldn't cheer me up if it meant I could have a million dollars, well maybe. Even the Gungans aren't as useless as that species.

[ObiWanShinobi]

Originally Posted by zafisher94

I'm watching the saga for the first time in numerical order with my little brother. I just finished pt 3, so next up is the original trilogy.

It is interesting that depending on which order you watch (considering you're a first time viewer) how different the effects can be. In one sense, you get a great narrative and epic story by watching them in order, but the surprises are also lost, so it's very tough to choose which I prefer so far.

This may seem odd and I've yet to try this but plan to. Watch the movies in this order IV, V, I, II, III, VI. It flows the story nicely by

[Show spoiler]introducing Luke first and then in Empire once the BIG REVEAL that Vader is his father is out there you watch the prequels as a "flashback" of sorts explaining the Vader character and then things snap back into current times by finishing it off with Return of the Jedi. I always felt the Vader "I am your father!" line to be a big surprise so when you watch the prequels first it kinda kills the OOMPH!!! that scene once had.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by ObiWanShinobi

This may seem odd and I've yet to try this but plan to. Watch the movies in this order IV, V, I, II, III, VI. It flows the story nicely by

[Show spoiler]introducing Luke first and then in Empire once the BIG REVEAL that Vader is his father is out there you watch the prequels as a "flashback" of sorts explaining the Vader character and then things snap back into current times by finishing it off with Return of the Jedi. I always felt the Vader "I am your father!" line to be a big surprise so when you watch the prequels first it kinda kills the OOMPH!!! that scene once had.

Never really had oomph for me but I was about 4 or 5 the first time I saw ESB.

[worldwide11]

Originally Posted by darthrazz

To me, the original version of Return of the Jedi , before the SE and tinkered versions, had a very strong beginning. The whole Han rescue act was very well done and paced. It also takes up a huge part of the movie. It's after that part that the movie suffers. Too bad that Lucas didn't stick with his original ending. I can see Han dying, his character in ROTJ was such a far cry from what he was in ANH and ESB.

The Han character was running on fumes by the third act. It was simply too repetitive. I also found it odd that he never changed his outfit over the course of 3 films and 6 years?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by worldwide11

The Han character was running on fumes by the third act. It was simply too repetitive. I also found it odd that he never changed his outfit over the course of 3 films and 6 years?

Well he did wear a Storm Trooper uniform for a bit in IV, not sure how you missed that.

[ObiWanShinobi]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Never really had oomph for me but I was about 4 or 5 the first time I saw ESB.

I was about the same age as you when I saw ANH, ESB, and RotJ. I remember being surprised by it for sure but its always been considered a big deal and one of the more well known/famous surprise reveals in film.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I really think that's Kurtz butthurt talking there. Lucas hasn't really been about the merchandising or else he would have let others just churn out endless SW product to keep it on the market. Think about it: other than the Ewok films, there was no Star Wars between 1983 and 1997. Not very good for marketing toys.

I think it's producer Robert Watts who's quoted in Rinzler's Empire 'making of' book as saying that that movie was one big toy advert. I guess no-one told Kurtz.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I really think that's Kurtz butthurt talking there. Lucas hasn't really been about the merchandising or else he would have let others just churn out endless SW product to keep it on the market. Think about it: other than the Ewok films, there was no Star Wars between 1983 and 1997. Not very good for marketing toys.

That's not true at all. Look at all the games and books that came out between Return of the Jedi and Phantom. Especially Shadows of the Empire, which showed that the franchise could live outside of a movie realm. There were toys for books, there were toys for the games, and then for the special edition movies. Star Wars merchandise was prevalent all through the nineties. I should know, because I was a kid then and I had a ton of it. If you went into a Target or Toys R Us, Star Wars usually had it's own decently sized section. Star Wars was a huge market for toys, and still is.

[crazyBLUE]

Just making some comparisons of shot for myself.....

Originally Posted by budious

I'm not sure if that particular choice of frame is good indicator between the two. The DVD also appears to be cropped more in that scene at the top and bottom. Look at the vertical dash lighting and Obi Wan's lower robe fold.

Another frame from Tarkin/Leia with good contrast to look at:

2006 DVD Theatrical Edition


2004 SE HDTV scaled to DVD

Blu-ray screen shot

Originally Posted by budious

It's just motion blur because she is entering the frame from the right in this scene.

One last comparison before I call it a night:

2006 DVD Theatrical Edition


2004 SE HDTV scaled to DVD

Blu-ray Screen shot


And I took an extra one

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by worldwide11

The Han character was running on fumes by the third act. It was simply too repetitive. I also found it odd that he never changed his outfit over the course of 3 films and 6 years?

SIR, you need to go and watch Episode 6 and him un-freezing, then go and watch him getting frozen in Episode 5 - He goes in in one outfit and comes out in a different one!

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Kinetic_Blue

SIR, you need to go and watch Episode 6 and him un-freezing, then go and watch him getting frozen in Episode 5 - He goes in in one outfit and comes out in a different one!

The weirdest thing to me is that in a saga spanning 6 films and I believe 30 movie years from 1-6, not once do you see someone wearing anything with buttons or zippers. I may be wrong, someone can check.