Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by tuck301

killing Han Solo off in rotj???? come on people start making sense. the movies are what they are. oh wait a minute, they are what lucas wants them to be and then be again....

Harrison Ford claims he asked to be killed off, but I forget whether he wanted to be killed off in the 2nd film or the 3rd.

But out of the three primary characters: Luke, Leia and Han, Ford was the best of the actors, so taking him out of the equation would have harmed the films and it also would have lost the love interest.

Remember also that Lucas at one point envisioned nine films: three prequels and three sequels. Those sequels could have included the Han Solo character, although by the time he got to them, Ford probably would not have participated anyway - he was a bigger star by then.

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

How? Solo volunteered for the Endor mission. ANH or ESB Han would not have done that.

He was more tender with Leia and seemed resigned to losing her to Luke ("you love him, don't you?") at the end. Not entirely the same guy two films ago.

Wow. I agree with PeterTHX. Is this the end of days? If I see John Cusack in a limosine I'll know why....

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by budious

Request seems innocent enough... then see poll.

Sorry to go off topic here, but I noticed your avatar. Is that picture of you, and if so, where did you get that proton pack?

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

How? Solo volunteered for the Endor mission. ANH or ESB Han would not have done that.

He was more tender with Leia and seemed resigned to losing her to Luke ("you love him, don't you?") at the end. Not entirely the same guy two films ago.

Gotta agree here! Han goes through some very big changes, IMO. His "arc" is potentailly the greatest of all. Sure, he retains his witty, sometimes agitating sense of humor and impatience with things but the guys heart opens up and he starts to believe in the greater cause instead of just himself.

How does anyone miss this?

[Geoff D]

I miss the badass Han from the first two movies who manages to "grow" as a character without turning into a total bee-yotch, which is what happens in Jedi.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Sorry to go off topic here, but I noticed your avatar. Is that picture of you, and if so, where did you get that proton pack?

That's William Shatner.

[darthrazz]

I don't recall where I read it, but I think Lucas wanted to have Calrissian and the Falcon destroyed on their way out of the second death star.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's William Shatner.

So it is! I should have caught that the first time. But it's a fairly small pic, and I was more focued on the pack, itself.

[darthrazz]

Originally Posted by fassbenderfan

I don't think so.. Lucas said he hated it when his favorite characters died in movies

Turns out to be Urban Legend!



Didn't Lando Calrissian originally die at the end of Jedi?

No. The story that Lando originally died and had his fate altered to survive after disastrous test screenings is a Star Wars Urban Legend. In no released version of the script does he die (nor in "The Annotated Screenplays"), and both writer Lawrence Kasdan and actor Billy Dee Williams have dismissed this rumour. The IGN review of the Star Wars Trilogy box set is incorrect in saying that Lando originally didn't make it out in time when the second Death Star exploded. There were never any test screenings of Return of the Jedi. However, Harrison Ford did strongly argue with George Lucas that his character Han Solo should die, quoting himself as having said "He's got no momma, no poppa; let's kill him off and add some weight to this thing." Lucas denied Ford his request, preferring to let Han live and have the story end on a much happier note.

[Magicmonger]

Originally Posted by darthrazz

I don't recall where I read it, but I think Lucas wanted to have Calrissian and the Falcon destroyed on their way out of the second death star.

WHAT?!?!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by budious

As for the scene in debata, according to this the darkening on Solo's shirt was original caused by stage lighting but fixed digitally for SE.

When Harrison turned up to the set to shoot the carbon freezing scene he noticed a continuity error. His shirt was only short-sleeved instead of the usual long-sleeved one. I guess under his jacket he wore a short-sleeved shirt?

I always though an error remained but I guess the lighting reason explains it!

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

How? Solo volunteered for the Endor mission. ANH or ESB Han would not have done that.

He was more tender with Leia and seemed resigned to losing her to Luke ("you love him, don't you?") at the end. Not entirely the same guy two films ago.

Exactly! Solo had character progression for sure. He went from a Rogue to a Hero character. The example of volunteering for the Endor mission in Jedi is quite the departure (growth) from wanting to get the hell off of Yavin and not be part of a 'suicide mission.'

It is also what makes the Greedo scene so controversial nowadays as the character progression from heartless rogue to hero was much more obvious with him shooting before Greedo has a chance. That is basically something the Solo of RotJ would not do (Leia is a different story though..lol). So it muddles the progression just a lil bit, but not a deal breaker.

[budious]

Originally Posted by Jay444

It is also what makes the Greedo scene so controversial nowadays as the character progression from heartless rogue to hero was much more obvious with him shooting before Greedo has a chance. That is basically something the Solo of RotJ would not do (Leia is a different story though..lol). So it muddles the progression just a lil bit, but not a deal breaker.

Solo has survival instincts, those never go away. He would still shoot first and tip for clean up later. Solo is suffering for classic male in love syndrome and acting a damn fool cause of Leia in the second and third movies. Also, since Luke and Leia rescued Han from Jabba at the start of the film, he's kind of obligated to put his neck on the line for the Alliance.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by fassbenderfan

I don't think so.. Lucas said he hated it when his favorite characters died in movies

if you watch, you can "see" the Falcon blow up just before it escapes the secondary exhaust explosion.

[budious]

Given their experiences with the first death star... WHERE ARE THE RETRACTABLE DOORS AND OR BLASTERS IN THE 'EXHAUST' TUNNELS!!!!! The Empire really needs to fire their design staff.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by budious

Given their experiences with the first death star... WHERE ARE THE RETRACTABLE DOORS AND OR BLASTERS IN THE 'EXHAUST' TUNNELS!!!!! The Empire really needs to fire their design staff.

I think the Rebels 'fired' them in A New Hope. That Death Star would never pass emissions tests anyway.

They should have painted it black as well, no-one would have spotted it.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by darthrazz

I don't recall where I read it, but I think Lucas wanted to have Calrissian and the Falcon destroyed on their way out of the second death star.

I remember reading/seeing that as well. Can't remember where - maybe it was forced erased...!

[worldwide11]

I've been a big fan of RotJ for years, and so my lukewarm reaction to the film after viewing it on blu ray perplexed me initially.

After a couple of days of reflection, I think the biggest flaw evident in RotJ is that the film runs on parallel tracks: it is on the one hand, a serious and sober treatment of the duality of the force, as personified in and by the struggle between luke and anakin. On the other hand, RotJ attempts to move in, and superimposes, a sillier, more playful element involving the shenanigans of Han, the ewoks, and to a lesser degree of C3PO and R2.

It is an uneasy, awkward and often clumsy amalgamation and balance between these two storyline elements.

The first and most important dimension of the film, the struggle between dark and light, between free will and destiny, is emotionally riveting and remains true to the heart of the story. While Luke is ultimately able to learn the ways of the peaceful warrior, the path is rocky indeed.

But in order to follow in Luke's footsteps, we are forced to endure: a) the cutesy little teddy bears, b) Han's constant smarminess ("not a scratch, right?"), and some truly awful CG embellishments in the jabba sequences.

There was a great story to be told here, but George lacked the confidence to stick to his narrative guns. He wanted the kids to like it. So he included teddy bears. He wanted girls to like it. So, Han the bad boy had to stay alive, even if it meant forcing Solo to ham it up at every turn. Luke and Vader engaged in a riveting telekinetic showdown of wills? Tell a joke, Han, lighten the moment!

The script continually embarrasses itself, and in turn, insults the viewer. RotJ is spiritually and emotionally riveting; the film's core can never be stripped away. But all of the silly add-ons, the desperate and obvious efforts to bolster the bottom line, and toy and merchandising sales, nearly drag the film down into a muck from which it almost could not recover.

While RotJ's spiritual core was too strong to be debased, not even by Lucas himself, Lucas' base motives eventually did triumph, in the disaster now known as Episode 1: Phantom Menace....

[budious]

RotJ in theatrical form is not as bad, but the Ewoks were over used. I could see them as primative society that might be used to gather some basic information on Imperial deployments but having them directly engage them battle was silly. How did they pile those convenient stacks of logs and hoist them into trees so near the Imperial shield base? A stick and skin hang-glider, you gotta be f'ing joking right? All that pales in comparison to some of the special editions' additions though, Vader's NO, Jabba's palace concert, and removing Sebastian Shaw for prequel ******...

Edit: lol, I didn't expect that word to be filtered... but it rhymes with spank and starts with w

[Aquel]

Return would have been better if it had concentrated more on the things which still make it pretty great (the conflict of light vs Dark, Luke vs Vader etc.), as Worldwide pointed out.

Too bad we know there are deleted scenes, which would have improved the movie (the segment where Luke builds his lightsaber is quite ambigous. I also liked the Jerjerrod scene where he is hesistant to blow up the moon) and there are some scenes which could have done with less (the Jabba dance scene comes to mind).

Reminds me of Eps.2 and 3, but we wouldn't want Budious to start fuming by mentioning those would we

[budious]

I'm more than happy to pretend like the prequels don't exist, everyone else is welcome to view them as they please. I just fume because of how the prequels polluted and inserted themselves unwilling into the original trilogy when Lucas raped them along with all my fond childhood memories of the movies.