Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Propellarhead9]

Sometimes it amazes me how angry and in some cases violent people get over Star Wars. I actually had someone punch me in the face because I said that I liked some of the stuff that was added into the special addition and into the last DVD release.

[vegeta88]

It was mentioned that most people don't care if Han shot first or second. I don't know if that is true or not, but I wonder if that could be because of a lack of information. I didn't know about it until a couple years ago. I really like Star Wars, but I am more of a casual viewer so without scrutinizing both versions, I might not have noticed. Now that I do know, I think the SE really messed up that scene.

I wonder, if people were completely educated on the differences between each version, which would the majority go for?

But as P@t_Mtl, it doesn't really matter because it is vastly more profitable to sell the SE at this point. As I said, if I was Lucas, I would do the same thing. I am hoping that someday down the road we get the unaltered versions.

[Propellarhead9]

In about another 12 years or so maybe slightly longer we'll be getting a 9 movie set inevitably.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

He did release them on DVD, in 2006.



On what statistical basis do you make that assertion? Seems to me there are absolutely no facts to support that one. Lots of people prefer the revisions, just not you.



Who got screwed? Who are all these people that didn't get what they paid for?

Also, how does changing 1% of a movie (without changing the story at all) transform a gem into a turd? I would really like to see the logic presented for that one.

So 99% of the work will be done either way but that remaining 1% renders multiple releases prohibitively expensive?

I wouldn't mind seeing the logic behind that.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Someone is living in denial. You realize the SE versions on DVD sold huge numbers, right?

Outside of a small incredibly vocal minority of fanboys, most people don't care.

Should somebody who claims to have seen The Phantom Menace fifteen times still be throwing around the f-word?

That just doesn't seem right

[Bluyoda]

You know what, I am going to put €200 aside for this release now.

Do you think there will be two sets, one with standard packaging, the other with a cool design, or maybe a limited edition??

Which would you buy?

I'd definitely buy the Cool design/limited edition one, for it's SW!

I can't wait to get it in my hands!!! The wait is terribly long though!

Those are the only FX laden spectacles that I completely love, as most other FX films have a crappy story, weak characters, and little message (2012, King Kong).

SW has it all, for me anyway!

There is no substitute.

How much will you be willing to fork out for the Saga on BD, and how much do you think they will sell it for on Amazon (Release date)?

$120?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by octagon

So 99% of the work will be done either way but that remaining 1% renders multiple releases prohibitively expensive?

I wouldn't mind seeing the logic behind that.

You really don't seem to grasp this.

Back when they were preparing the SE Editions, it was discovered the original negatives were deteorating.

A New Hope especially had suffered the most, having lost almost all of it's color. There's footage on the DVD.

The negatives were cleaned up and fully restored, and then were sliced up for the Special Editions.

While the story may not be changed by the changes to the film, ANH especially features tons of minor changes. Such as removing the english off of the tractor beam generator and replacing it with Aurebesh. So it would require a great deal of work to restore and prepare HD versions of the original cuts. It would in fact require another entire restoration process. And it's not worth the time or money involved, as Lucas feels the original versions are inferior. That's why the previous DVD release where the original cuts were included used the old LD masters and it was offered as bonus material.

[NYorker]

I consider myself a Star Wars fan and still don't see what the big deal with the Han shoots/doesn't shoot first. I know some are disappointed, but it's not as if at the end the Emperor bounces back from the chute, yells "April fools!" and chops off the heads of Vader and Luke.
On the other hand, maybe, in the end, the originals will be available - as some DLC, like a PS3 game...

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Beast

You really don't seem to grasp this.

Back when they were preparing the SE Editions, it was discovered the original negatives were deteorating.

A New Hope especially had suffered the most, having lost almost all of it's color. There's footage on the DVD.

The negatives were cleaned up and fully restored, and then were sliced up for the Special Editions.

While the story may not be changed by the changes to the film, ANH especially features tons of minor changes. Such as removing the english off of the tractor beam generator and replacing it with Aurebesh. So it would require a great deal of work to restore and prepare HD versions of the original cuts. It would in fact require another entire restoration process. And it's not worth the time or money involved, as Lucas feels the original versions are inferior. That's why the previous DVD release where the original cuts were included used the old LD masters and it was offered as bonus material.

It's just me who find it funny that the true fans of Star Wars, you know the ones who prefer the unchanged, unraped versions from 77-83 seem to be the more cluless about restoration work and what as been done on these movies for the past 15 years. Then they call those who don't mind the changes and the prequels none tru fans The changes made on these movies since the Special Editions would required so much work to be done on the originals but for some reason they just can't seem to understand that. Even more so since 1997 Lucas as been saying left and right that the true version of Star Wars are the Special Editions, god forbid the creator should say such things. After 15 years hearing the man who created the movies saying that the true versions are the special editions I would think someone would have caught on by now?

I think from now on I will boycot the Clone Wars animated series, since we see the WB logo at the start and not Fox. Any real fan of Star Wars know it as to be 20th Century Fox at the start...darn it Lucas you are raping us again

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It's just me who find it funny that the true fans of Star Wars, you know the ones who prefer the unchanged, unraped versions from 77-83 seem to be the more cluless about restoration work and what as been done on these movies for the past 15 years. Then they call those who don't mind the changes and the prequels none tru fans The changes made on these movies since the Special Editions would required so much work to be done on the originals but for some reason they just can't seem to understand that. Even more so since 1997 Lucas as been saying left and right that the true version of Star Wars are the Special Editions, god forbid the creator should say such things. After 15 years hearing the man who created the movies saying that the true versions are the special editions I would think someone would have caught on by now?

I think from now on I will boycot the Clone Wars animated series, since we see the WB logo at the start and not Fox. Any real fan of Star Wars know it as to be 20th Century Fox at the start...darn it Lucas you are raping us again

Indeed. May as well get the paint remover and remove the current version of the Mona Lisa.

After all, scans show there's an earlier version underneth. It has to be better than the final version.

Next we can go on and do the same thing to The Last Supper. And every other work of art that has an earlier version beneath.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

You really don't seem to grasp this.

Back when they were preparing the SE Editions, it was discovered the original negatives were deteorating.

A New Hope especially had suffered the most, having lost almost all of it's color. There's footage on the DVD.

The negatives were cleaned up and fully restored, and then were sliced up for the Special Editions.

While the story may not be changed by the changes to the film, ANH especially features tons of minor changes. Such as removing the english off of the tractor beam generator and replacing it with Aurebesh. So it would require a great deal of work to restore and prepare HD versions of the original cuts. It would in fact require another entire restoration process. And it's not worth the time or money involved, as Lucas feels the original versions are inferior. That's why the previous DVD release where the original cuts were included used the old LD masters and it was offered as bonus material.

This gets to the heart of the contradiction I'm trying to point out...

The story hasn't really been changed. Okay.

The tons of actual changes are minor cosmetic alterations. Okay.

But without the unchanged story and the minor cosmetic alterations the OT is almost embarassingly inferior to the SE. Huh?

You can't simultaneously argue that people are getting all worked up over cosmetic changes that don't really matter and that the original cuts are so much worse they should never see the light of day.

That doesn't track.

As for expense, I'm not arguing multiple editions would be cheap to produce let alone free. Nor am I unwilling to pay for them separately. But I have a hard time believing they would lose money.

[Beast]

There's no contradiction at all. As Yoda would say, "No! No different. Only different in your mind."

[RudyC]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

He did release them on DVD, in 2006..

i meant to say that why he didnt release them initially... although he never really released them properly.. its actually called a BONUS disc.

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

On what statistical basis do you make that assertion? Seems to me there are absolutely no facts to support that one. Lots of people prefer the revisions, just not you..

yes its my opinion just like you thinking otherwise is yours... but i believe if both versions were released when people would ask.."hey man which version of star wars should i get" the typical answer on the street would be "get the originals their the best."

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

Who got screwed? Who are all these people that didn't get what they paid for?.

me. and im sure others like me.

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

Also, how does changing 1% of a movie (without changing the story at all) transform a gem into a turd? I would really like to see the logic presented for that one.

1%? no the special effects are like a main character for me... so they actually deleted one of the characters.

[Kurodude]

I'm gonna jump into the lion's den here and give another shout-out for the theatrical releases in Blu Ray, however improbable. I guess if the SE versions of the original trilogy are all we get, it's not the end of the world. But the original three are such a rich part of movie history that the generation who saw them in the theater or grew up watching the old VHS releases would buy them in a heartbeat.

In that regard, I think the obvious younger demographic here is skewing the statistics in favor of Episodes I-III, which are by respectable standards very average movies compared to their juggernaut predecessors. In terms of writing, acting, story cohesion... they are average to poor IMO. The special effects and the Star Wars name tag are the only things holding together what is at their core: Flimsy storytelling, bad writing, poor acting--everything the original trilogy had in spades. I'm sorry, but a few pretty faces delivering one-dimensional performances with no sense of urgency, location or motivation do not a good movie make. I caught a broadcast of the new trilogy on cable recently and was surprised by how dated and cartoonish the special effects look. HD eye candy for sure, but let's not forget what they lack.

How awesome would a boxed set with ALL versions available be, customizable from the main menu? I think it's inevitable but might happen sooner if Lucas had more respect for the original stories and audiences that handed him the immense Star Wars franchise on a silver platter. As a musician, I don't mind if a composer revises an already amazing score, but I still want access to the original so I don't forget what made it great.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Kurodude

I'm gonna jump into the lion's den here and give another shout-out for the theatrical releases in Blu Ray, however improbable. I guess if the SE versions of the original trilogy are all we get, it's not the end of the world. But the original three are such a rich part of movie history that the generation who saw them in the theater or grew up watching the old VHS releases would buy them in a heartbeat.

Just like they'll buy the SE releases when they're released on Blu-Ray.

Technically we should even stop referring to them as SE's anymore. They're the official cuts now.

That's why I tend to refer to the older cuts as "Workprint Cuts", because that's technically what they are.

In that regard, I think the obvious younger demographic here is skewing the statistics in favor of Episodes I-III, which are by respectable standards very average movies compared to their juggernaut predecessors. In terms of writing, acting, story cohesion... they are average to poor IMO.

I don't think there's anything obvious about the demographics at all.

As someone who saw the original versions in the theater, I prefer the current cuts.

Just like in most cases, I prefer the Prequel Trilogy. They were no worse than the OT.

The special effects and the Star Wars name tag are the only things holding together what is at their core: Flimsy storytelling, bad writing, poor acting--everything the original trilogy had in spades. I'm sorry, but a few pretty faces delivering one-dimensional performances with no sense of urgency, location or motivation do not a good movie make. I caught a broadcast of the new trilogy on cable recently and was surprised by how dated and cartoonish the special effects look. HD eye candy for sure, but let's not forget what they lack.

And those exact same complaints can be equally transfered to the OT.

Except that some people have put those films on a pedestal, and refuse to see the flaws.

The OT is just as cheesy and corny as the PT. And the non-SE versions of the OT don't hold up well in the Special Effects department either.

In the end, the PT is not lacking anything. It's just the jaded mindset of many of it's detractors when compared to the so-called Holy Trilogy.

How awesome would a boxed set with ALL versions available be, customizable from the main menu? I think it's inevitable but might happen sooner if Lucas had more respect for the original stories and audiences that handed him the immense Star Wars franchise on a silver platter. As a musician, I don't mind if a composer revises an already amazing score, but I still want access to the original so I don't forget what made it great.

It has nothing to do with respect. It has everything to do with satisfying himself as the creator. He's not disrespecting you because he chooses not to release exactly what you want. The same way that any other company isn't disrespecting you with what they release. The original versions are inferior in his eyes, and he feels there's no need or point to throw money or time at preparing them for release. Buying a ticket or a toy doesn't earn you shares of ownership to the film. As for your final comment, you do have access to the original. Lucas didn't send out Stormtroopers to destroy every Betamax, VHS, Laserdisc, or DVD copy of the original versions. They still exist for those who want or care about those cuts.

[monkeyjb1988]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Not exactly true. The original version as not been re-touch or remastered in 20 years now. If the Laserdisc and the last DVD release of them show anything, they are in need of serious work. Do you really think it cost them nothing to fix and re-work masters? Do you think the guys who work on this do this work for free out of the goodness of their hearts for the fans out there? The masters are probably in very bad shape. Now on a business side of things, why would he bother to spend that much money to make a few people (who will complaint anyway once it's done that it was not done to their own liking) happy?

Those that scream over and over for the originals seem to think that everyone out there want's them as well. Not the case at all. The rest of the world could care less about the original version of who shot first and was this sound change at 44 minutes 22 seconds. Of course he would release the special edition first, they need less work for restoration since they have been to major focus of the work for the past 15 years. They will sell well, very well. So why would he then spend more money to restore the old version so that 1 out of 50000 customers can buy it? Do you really think the majority of people would double dip on this? Not happening. We here double dip because we are nuts, crazy about movies. That being said, how many members are on Blu-ray.com? Do you really think we represent over 80% of the buying customers in the world? We are at most 5% of those paying customers if that. It's a business and they will do things in a way that they can make the most money by spending the least amount of money to achieve that goal. That is what a business do and the is what Lucasfilm will do.

You make a good point. (Whiney ) Fanboys just aren't the biggest demographic. However, there are probably some people who would remaster the originals for free. I'm sure their out there. Otherwise, bunch of good points; hence why I have little to no problems with the special editions. I did get the 2006 DVDs but I didn't get the 2004 set (I got the bonus DVD separately from Amazon Marketplace) because I hoped for the originals. Now, I'm just going for it.

Originally Posted by Beast

Sounds about right.

Anyone with any grasp of reality knew that the Prequels could never live up to the hype.

I still think they're amazing movies though. As good as anything in the OT, if not better in some areas.

Same here. I enjoyed the prequels as much as the original trilogy. I'm going to lose my geek fanboy credentials, but I actually like Jar Jar.

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

You know what, I am going to put €200 aside for this release now.

Do you think there will be two sets, one with standard packaging, the other with a cool design, or maybe a limited edition??

Which would you buy?

I'd definitely buy the Cool design/limited edition one, for it's SW!

I can't wait to get it in my hands!!! The wait is terribly long though!

I would definitely get the special box version, even if it's a pain to store on my shelf . This will be worth the wait...unless the video or audio quaility stinks. However, I seriously doubt that would happen on Lucas' watch. This will rock. To help with the wait, I'm getting the second season of The Clone Wars as well as the third, which will probably come out before this set. Anyway, great show to help sate your need for HD Star Wars, which does have HD clips of the movies. Also, get Spike HD. It has a marathon of Star Wars at least every month or two, so that helps. Hopefully, that helps until we get this set.

[Monolithium]

Originally Posted by Stereomike

This thread should be locked

I think even the Mods love the hilarity of this unending and utterly pointless argument.

Fans vs. Fans
Personal Opinion vs. Personal Opinion

CBS should make a sitcom about this.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

And those exact same complaints can be equally transfered to the OT.

Except that some people have put those films on a pedestal, and refuse to see the flaws.

The OT is just as cheesy and corny as the PT. And the non-SE versions of the OT don't hold up well in the Special Effects department either.

In the end, the PT is not lacking anything. It's just the jaded mindset of many of it's detractors when compared to the so-called Holy Trilogy.

There are major differences here. You seem to think that any and every complaint that someone makes about the PT can be equally transferred to the OT, but that's simply not the case.

I don't deny that the OT has it's flaws and lesser aspects. Still, at the end of the day, it does seem that George Lucas accomplished more with less with the originals compared to the PT.

Many of the problems with the OT films can really be attributed to the limitaions of the time. Both FX technology and the budget for them were limited (especially with ANH). Lucas was flying by the seat of his pants making them (again especially with ANH). Even the lightsaber battle, which is easily the weakest of all 6 movies in terms of "action" can be excused by the fact that it was the first time he was filming something like that, and he had a guy in a really stiff suit battling an old man.

The slower pace of ANH (which you often complain about) can even be attributed to the way movies were typically made back at that time. In general movies just seemed to have a slower pace back in the 70s and before hand (there are expections, but not many). Heck, by the standards of the time, ANH was actually a rather fast paced movie compared to most. While there were expections, in general going into the 80s and beyond, during the time after Star Wars came out is when the general pacing of the average movie seemed to pick up.

And most of these problems with ANH are still present in the updated versions. There's only so much that adding new CGI effects can do to improve those things.


Also most of the actors were relative unknowns with minimal acting experience. So, even if their performances weren't perfect, I think they did a good job overall. I also think that (in general) they improved from film to film in the OT. Having other directors doing the 2nd and 3rd OT movies helped in that respect. Though, I would say that even in ANH, the actors gave relatively believable performances overall. Luke was a little too whiney... that's probably the biggest complaint that I have about that. But still, they seemed to try to envoke real emotion when possible in their performances. While not flawless, I would still say that the performances as a whole were more convincing than most in the PT.


In the PT, the performances just seemed.... hollow for the most part. They often felt more like people reading lines off of a page than actually "acting" them out (even "cheesey" acting would be more desirable than this "hollow" acting).. And most of the actors in the PT were all relatively well-known actors who have had many good/great past rolls. It's hard to really blame the actors, themselves, for those problems given their past experience. The few good performances seemed to mainly come from OT actors who already knew their characters (i.e. Palpatine, Yoda, C3PO). I will say that while he was a pretty straight forward character without any real "stand-out" personality traits, Liam Nissan did a good job of acting in the Qui Gon roll. His performance was more convincing than most (even though I do feel that the character was rather pointless and was performing a roll that other character(s) should have been performing). But still, most of the rest of the PT performances, particularly by the "human" characters were pretty bland.

It's as if George Lucas (who already wasn't really an "actor's director") lost a good chunk of what ability he had to direct actors between making ANH (the only OT movie that he actually directed) and then working on the prequels.... or he just did much more of a half-assed job than he did before.

Another possibility is that since the PT contained more experienced actors, perhaps they were more used to getting much more specific direction from the director than they were getting from Lucas, which attributed to the more "hollow" performances. By contrast, the cast of the OT at the time of the filming of ANH were relative unknowns, not necessarily used to a specific process in terms of being directed, so they perhaps took what direction they were given and went further with it than the PT actors did. This is pure speculation, but it is a possibility.

I also don't think the PT actors basically being surrounded by blue/green screens most of the time (as opposed to the OT actors being on actual sets that looked like the places that they were supposed to be in) did a whole lot to help the performances.



The bottom line is that most of the problems with the OT can be and should be overlooked largely because they were due to the limits of the time within which they were made. None the less, they were ground breaking for what they were at the time and blew most everyone away.

By contrast, the PT was relatively mediocre for it's time and was received with largely mixed reviews.

The bottom line is that given the money and resources that he had available to him, there is really no good reason why the PT movies weren't A LOT better than what we ended up with. I can overlook the issues with the OT given the limitations that they were made within. Those same limitations no longer applied when the PT was made. The problems with it pretty much fall squarely on Lucas's shoulders, and not due to circumstances beyond his control.

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by Beast

I don't think it's silly at all. He doesn't see the point in wasting money to restore versions of the film that are inferior.

But how is it wasting money? He's sure to make it all back lol

[Beast]

Originally Posted by rexcrk

But how is it wasting money? He's sure to make it all back lol

There's no guarentee. And again, he feels those versions arn't worth the effort.