Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Captain Mal]

Originally Posted by Coov

No. Mods just delete your post if they don't like it. They are like the puppet-masters of conversation.

It'd be like pre-recording a presidential debate and editing out anything potentially harming to the candidate they want to win, then air it. That is not a nightmare, that is POWER!!!

Yep, they deleted my post and a few other posts about a Star Wars fan edit from yesterday. Oh well, I guess it makes sense since a fan edit could take away potential blu-ray sales and this is blu-ray.com afterall.

[Coov]

Originally Posted by Captain Mal

Yep, they deleted my post and a few other posts about a Star Wars fan edit from yesterday. Oh well, I guess it makes sense since a fan edit could take away potential blu-ray sales and this is blu-ray.com afterall.

Actually it does the opposite. You have to own the BD set for that fan-edit to be legal. It forces you to buy it. When I download the AVCHD version I will purchase the disks.... used of course.

[ApolloOne]

Originally Posted by Troy73

So, Steven Spielberg cares about his fans and his films to the degree that he restores them to the original unaltered intent. Rather than just putting CGI in a film now that doesn't need it or benefit from it simply because he can.

Gotcha.

This is why Spielberg shits all over Lucas as a director.

If your assertion is that Spielberg is a better director than Lucas, then I would say I agree with you, though I would not express the opinion in such a crude and vulgar way. However, I disagree that Spielberg's comparative lack of tinkering with his films is what makes him a more skillful director. I prefer to think that it's his eye for emotional visual impact and his ability to direct actors—particularly children—that puts him over Lucas.

[Captain Mal]

Originally Posted by Coov

Actually it does the opposite. You have to own the BD set for that fan-edit to be legal. It forces you to buy it. When I download the AVCHD version I will purchase the disks.... used of course.

That argument for fan edits would hold water IF everyone owned stuff legally. Sadly, that's not the case. It's more likely that upset Star Wars fans would give George Lucas the finger, refuse to buy his blu-ray set, and go download the HD fan edits.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by wormraper

no no no don't you understand. Spielberg is just a cowering figure scared of a few whiny a$$ fans and doesn't do what he REALLY wants with his pictures unlike Lord George

/sarcasm

Actually, as good as Steven can be, he is NOT a slam dunk when it comes to films. In some cases, he over "smooths" things and ties them up all nice and happily. The film AI was a great example of Kubrick starting it terrificly and then when Spielberg took over the film lost its edge big-time and became sappy. Hes made some stinkers too like Amistad, Shindlers list(gets tiring after about a half hour), and some others. E.T., as magical as it was back when I was 11 years old, it also gets a little "Disney-ish".

Look - not trying to say Spielberg doesnt get it right more often thatn not because he does. But he makes certain kinds of films that put butts in seats at theaters and appeal to familes and stuff. Thats cool - but he aint flawless. I own and enjoy many of his films.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Actually, as good as Steven can be, he is NOT a slam dunk when it comes to films. In some cases, he over "smooths" things and ties them up all nice and happily. The film AI was a great example of Kubrick starting it terrificly and then when Spielberg took over the film lost its edge big-time and became sappy. Hes made some stinkers too like Amistad, Shindlers list(gets tiring after about a half hour), and some others. E.T., as magical as it was back when I was 11 years old, it also gets a little "Disney-ish".

Look - not trying to say Spielberg doesnt get it right more often thatn not because he does. But he makes certain kinds of films that put butts in seats at theaters and appeal to familes and stuff. Thats cool - but he aint flawless. I own and enjoy many of his films.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Truth hurt?

You may think it's garbage, but please do compare Spielberg to Lucas and show me where Lucas even comes close to touching Spielberg's career. Spielberg is a master filmmaker while Lucas, as much as I love Star Wars, is an amateur by comparison.

Those are just cold hard facts. You may not like it, but that doesn't change it.

While I deeply respect Steven Spielberg as a filmmaker and storyteller, and I like some of his films he made, most of all A.I., E.T. (the 20th anniversary edition is preferred though ), The Color Purple (really surprised me), the Indiana Jones movies (which wouldn't exist if it weren't for GL), amongst others, he has yet to make a saga, or a movie that is my all time favorite.

George Lucas has made American Graffiti, which is pure magic, THX-1138, that I find very powerful, and he directed (literally) 4 of my all time favorite films, and my No.1 favorite film of all time: ROTS, and wrote, executive-produced, and practically directed 2 more of my all time faves (TESB and ROTJ), as well as wrote and executive-produced the Indi saga, which is pretty awesome too, so it's all subjective mate.

Lucas has very different interests from Spielberg. Both of them are great in their own rights, but to call Lucas an amateur compared to Spielberg is ridiculous. After all, Spielberg has made such movies as Hook, The Terminal, and Catch Me If You Can.
Of course, Steven Spielberg is far more productive, but GL has literally changed the way we make movies:

ILM
Skywalkersound
THX
etc.

TPM was the first film that had the incredible amount of 1985 VFX in it, and was a milestone in that respect.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
If I had to choose, I wouldn't even had to think for a split of a second: George Lucas!

He has created 9 of my top 10 movies of all time!

I wish he would release the friggin' ancient OOT so that the Han Solo fanboys would finally shut the F%$% up, but that's not for me to decide, and I certainly wouldn't care to watch them more than once myself, and that only out of interest.

Originally Posted by Troy73

His vision for the saga? That would be a lot easier to believe if he didn't make alterations and tweaks with every release of the films. Back in 1998 when he spoke of new scenes and effects for the OT it was one thing, now it just seems like every couple of years he has a fresh batch of changes. Now, I really have no problem with that or Lucas, but lets not BS each other here and call it like it is. Also, let's not tear down Steven Spielberg in an attempt to defend Lucas because an argument on that foundation will crumble and fall.

Nothing is set in stone, everything changes. That's a natural law of the universe. One of GL' main themes in the Prequel Triolgy is that fear of change leads to suffering, anger, etc..

Welcome to the real world, where everything is in motion.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

While I deeply respect Steven Spielberg as a filmmaker and storyteller, and I like some of his films he made, most of all A.I., E.T. (the 20th anniversary edition is preferred though ), The Color Purple (really surprised me), the Indiana Jones movies (which wouldn't exist if it weren't for GL), amongst others, he has yet to make a saga, or a movie that is my all time favorite.

George Lucas has made American Graffiti, which is pure magic, THX-1138, that I find very powerful, and he directed (literally) 4 of my all time favorite films, and my No.1 favorite film of all time: ROTS, and wrote, executive-produced, and practically directed 2 more of my all time faves (TESB and ROTJ), as well as wrote and executive-produced the Indi saga, which is pretty awesome too, so it's all subjective mate.

Lucas has very different interests from Spielberg. Both of them are great in their own rights, but to call Lucas an amateur compared to Spielberg is ridiculous. After all, Spielberg has made such movies as Hook, The Terminal, and Catch Me If You Can.
Of course, Steven Spielberg is far more productive, but GL has literally changed the way we make movies:

ILM
Skywalkersound
THX
etc.

TPM was the first film that had the incredible amount of 1985 VFX in it, and was a milestone in that respect.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
If I had to choose, I wouldn't even had to think for a split of a second: George Lucas!

He has created 9 of my top 10 movies of all time!

I wish he would release the friggin' ancient OOT so that the Han Solo fanboys would finally shut the F%$% up, but that's not for me to decide, and I certainly wouldn't care to watch them more than once myself, and that only out of interest.

aaaaaaaaand that seems to be the difference.

American Graffitti is actually very good
THX 1138 is pretty laughable
ROTS.... oh holy crap I've had 9 year olds write stories that were better written than that pos

Terminal and Catch me if you can are FANTASTIC films, we're talking not in the same league as lucas

Lucas is a FANTASTIC concept designer. he has an incredible mind with some great imaginative ideas, but as a director and nitty gritty detail man he's HORRIFICALLY amateurish

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by wormraper

aaaaaaaaand that seems to be the difference.

American Graffitti is actually very good
THX 1138 is pretty laughable
ROTS.... oh holy crap I've had 9 year olds write stories that were better written than that pos

Terminal and Catch me if you can are FANTASTIC films, we're talking not in the same league as lucas

Lucas is a FANTASTIC concept designer. he has an incredible mind with some great imaginative ideas, but as a director and nitty gritty detail man he's HORRIFICALLY amateurish

You must be a real genius!

[phansson]

I don't know if any of you have watched documentaries on the Star Wars films. While Lucas has a lot of creative/writing control, the final outcome of the movie was a HUGE collaborative effort that involved a lot of talented filmmakers.

Supposedly the original "George Lucas" cut of "star wars" was so bad that they had to bring in Richard Chew and Paul Hirsch to re edit the movie (marcia lucas was thrown a bone also for helping). These three won Academy Awards for the edit. I would LOVE to see the original cut just to see how different it is/was. I am sure that one has NEVER seen the light of day.

In interviews with Irvin Kershner (director of the consensus best Star Wars movie ESB) I seem to remember him saying "Lucas would tell how to do a sceene and I would say , why don't we try it like this." Also a lot of the more memorable dialogue was "improved" by the actors.

[The Apocalypse]

I like Star Wars.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by EclipseSSD

I like Star Wars.

And I like Star Wars, I just don't think that Lucas is going to walk on water any time soon.....

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by phansson

And I like Star Wars, I just don't think that Lucas is going to walk on water any time soon.....

exactly, we have about 5 or 6 people in here who CONSTANTLY suck at the teet of lord George vs. recognizing his flaws and accepting that they like his movies (and then of course accepting that others have ISSUES with his constantly tinkering)

[The Apocalypse]

I just think hostility is unecessary, especially since it's quite clear that nobody on either side is going to convince each other of anything.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by phansson

And I like Star Wars, I just don't think that Lucas is going to walk on water any time soon.....

So in the meantime we'll just throw out unsubstantiated rumors and such.



Ghost edit. Lucas was an ace editor in his own right (The Godfather ring a bell?). The novelization of the film which was ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster follows the film scene for scene...and was out seven months before the film was in theaters. The novel's out and the film still in editing and post production mind you.

This re-writing of history needs to end.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

So in the meantime we'll just throw out unsubstantiated rumors and such.



Ghost edit. Lucas was an ace editor in his own right (The Godfather ring a bell?). The novelization of the film which was ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster follows the film scene for scene...and was out seven months before the film was in theaters. The novel's out and the film still in editing and post production mind you.

This re-writing of history needs to end.

I know that was in English, but I didn't understand a word. What does The Godfather have to do with him doing a piss poor job of editing Star Wars??? Watch some of the making of's. Gary Kurtz (I am pretty sure it was him) is the one that said the original cut of Star Wars was "unwatchable".

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by phansson

I know that was in English, but I didn't understand a word. What does The Godfather have to do with him doing a piss poor job of editing Star Wars??? Watch some of the making of's. Gary Kurtz (I am pretty sure it was him) is the one that said the original cut of Star Wars was "unwatchable".

The disgruntled Gary Kurtz? You're not even sure who said it, even if it was really said at all. You complain about 'walk on water" yet happily contribute to the "anything to make Lucas look bad" camp. It's hypocritical.

Lucas helped Coppola edit The Godfather, specifically the ending assassination sequence. A sequence in movie history noted for it's editing brilliance.

[phansson]

"the disgruntled gary kurtz", I am pretty sure it was him that said the edit comment, not 100% about 99%. Why is George Lucas not listed as an editor for Star Wars or "the godfather" for that matter? Even listed as uncredited?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by phansson

"the disgruntled gary kurtz", I am pretty sure it was him that said the edit comment, not 100% about 99%. Why is George Lucas not listed as an editor for Star Wars or "the godfather" for that matter? Even listed as uncredited?

Because of money and union rules. With The Godfather Lucas was helping out his friend Coppola who was battling time and the studio (and helped him again with Apocalypse Now).

[MacEachaidh]

Well, I finally bought Star Wars on Blu-ray, when a local electronics store was getting out of the BD/DVD business and had the boxed set on sale for half the normal price.

Bit of a mixed bag, isn't it? It's a pity the PT films suffer from technical decisions that probably seemed reasonable at the time they were made, but have had unfortunate consequences for HD transfers. I was surprised, though, how tedious they seemed just as films — they're really very clunky, in plot, dialogue and staging. Seems a shame.

The OT, on the other hand, shone far more brightly than I expected, so that was a pleasing surprise. I felt the old excitement again, and was glad I had bought the set. (Though in hindsight, it probably would have been enough to just buy the OT set, since I don't much like the PT films, and don't like what they do to the story focus of the OT if you watch them in numerical sequence.) I didn't even mind all the visual "tinkering", some of which seemed genuinely to add to the effectiveness of the scene, though some was unnecessary and probably a bit fussy. (And I didn't like the musical changes in RotJ at all.)

So. Nothing that other people here wouldn't have already thought and said, but it's a bit new to me, so pardon me.

(I did notice that the Teal Blight had descended even on Tatooine, which made me groan. I'm more convinced than ever that it must be the QAD Blu-ray fix du jour for colours that threaten to bleed — I can't see any other reasonable cause for doing it — but I wish they'd find some other way of handling this. I'm sick of looking at turquoise skies and deserts with moss-green overtones, and films in every genre from Cleopatra to Se7en to Lord of the Rings looking like they borrowed their colour palette from a neon-lit urban movie-of-the-week with saxophones in its soundtrack. Grrrr.)