Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[42041]

Originally Posted by chip75

Lucas isn't psychic, he used the best equipment he had at the time, as digital gave him the added versatility and the ability to see what had been shot seconds after shooting it.

Maybe, but sometimes a technology just isn't ready for prime time. I'd argue he jumped the gun considerably on AOTC, and now it will forever look (to my eyes, at least) crummy and cheap.
(Wasn't he also pushing theaters to replace 35mm with 1K DLP projectors around that time? )

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Some VFX studios don't even exist anymore (the folks who did Life of Pi, Rhythm 'N Hues, are a good example). How would they re-render VFX for assets that no longer exist?

Indeed. ILM couldn't even re-render their own VFX for Phantom Menace 3D, not because they lost their work but because they didn't have any software capable of running it any more. People who assume that extant VFX can be magically re-rendered in 4K any time day or night don't have a clue.

Oh, and folks who think that 4K's spatial resolution alone is this magical panacea for picture quality is sadly mistaken. As I said a couple of pages ago, 4K movies are generally made with 2K upscaled VFX, and because the overwhelming majority of the prequels is made up of VFX of some form or another, even now those movies would basically be 2K upscaled shows. But by all means people, keep banging on about how shortsighted George Lucas was, even though he knew that 2K was good enough for theatrical projection (including IMAX 15/70 blowups) about 15 years ago.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Indeed. ILM couldn't even re-render their own VFX for Phantom Menace 3D, not because they lost their work but because they didn't have any software capable of running it any more. People who assume that extant VFX can be magically re-rendered in 4K any time day or night don't have a clue.

Oh, and folks who think that 4K's spatial resolution alone is this magical panacea for picture quality is sadly mistaken. As I said a couple of pages ago, 4K movies are generally made with 2K upscaled VFX, and because the overwhelming majority of the prequels is made up of VFX of some form or another, even now those movies would basically be 2K upscaled shows. But by all means people, keep banging on about how shortsighted George Lucas was, even though he knew that 2K was good enough for theatrical projection (including IMAX 15/70 blowups) about 15 years ago.

Exactly they did a DMR of AOTC and that was not even 1080p!
I bet they upscale or scan a 35mm print

[chip75]

Originally Posted by 42041

Maybe, but sometimes a technology just isn't ready for prime time.

I guess someone had to go first, so the technology could be improved upon. It took a leap of faith and old George was game.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Indeed. ILM couldn't even re-render their own VFX for Phantom Menace 3D, not because they lost their work but because they didn't have any software capable of running it any more.

If I remember a lot of things were done with specialized software made-to-measure to create characters, waterfalls and other background SFX. It's not like everything is a .JPEG file or you can open it with 2-clicks of Photoshop.

It would be like asking PIXAR to go back and remake Toy Story to Toy Story 3 visual standards. I'm sure they'd say 'fine ... we'll see you in a few years!'

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

"The general public mocks the prequels." What? Do you ever go outside?

I sure do and I'd advise you to. I'm not entirely sure I've ever met anyone who actually liked them, with good reason. But thanks for the banal trite attack.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by chip75

I guess someone had to go first, so the technology could be improved upon. It took a leap of faith and old George was game.



If I remember a lot of things were done with specialized software made-to-measure to create characters, waterfalls and other background SFX. It's not like everything is a .JPEG file or you can open it with 2-clicks of Photoshop.

It would be like asking PIXAR to go back and remake Toy Story to Toy Story 3 visual standards. I'm sure they'd say 'fine ... we'll see you in a few years!'

The waterfalls were poured salt

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

But thanks for the banal trite attack.

It's the best I can give such childish fanboyisms.

[klauswhereareyou]

Just because Lucas could shoot HD with AOTC doesn't mean he should've. If you're going to experiment, do another cheapie Raiodland Murders, don't visually tarnish an entry in the Star Wars saga forever. I guess at least by the time they got to ROTS the HD didn't look quite so bad, but even that would've looked better had it been shot on film, since PM looks better than both and was shot around the same time period.

BTW New Hope, Empire, Jedi, and Phantom Menace all deserve new 4k masters, and no I don't mean 4k discs or whatever, I mean they need to be mastered in 4k. The current discs (especially Phantom Menace) are lackluster to say the least. The only reason these got such a pass when they came out was because everyone was just so jazzed that Lucas was finally blessing the format with these flicks.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Just because Lucas could shoot HD with AOTC doesn't mean he should've. If you're going to experiment, do another cheapie Raiodland Murders, don't visually tarnish an entry in the Star Wars saga forever. I guess at least by the time they got to ROTS the HD didn't look quite so bad, but even that would've looked better had it been shot on film.

But it would have cost more, that Pepsi money only goes so far

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

If I remember a lot of things were done with specialized software made-to-measure to create characters, waterfalls and other background SFX. It's not like everything is a .JPEG file or you can open it with 2-clicks of Photoshop.

It would be like asking PIXAR to go back and remake Toy Story to Toy Story 3 visual standards. I'm sure they'd say 'fine ... we'll see you in a few years!'

Well, Pixar were able to re-render their movies for 3D at least, so they had a better handle on the archival problem than LFL!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

The only reason these got such a pass when they came out was because everyone was just so jazzed that Lucas was finally blessing the format with these flicks.

Not with me they didn't. I could see their shortcomings the moment I started watching them, and I've got the review to prove it.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not with me they didn't. I could see their shortcomings the moment I started watching them, and I've got the review to prove it.

Good, glad to hear there weren't some that would just willingly drink the kool aid. Luckily my brother got them before me, and after viewing them I said, "I'll pass." Bad enough that we can't get the original cuts and much of the bonus content wasn't that great and hard to access, but when you can't even put out something better visually then what they did, wow...

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, Pixar were able to re-render their movies for 3D at least, so they had a better handle on the archival problem than LFL!

Maybe it's just ILM. No offense but the ILM of today isn't what it once was.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The waterfalls were poured salt

It was still digitized! I now remember the bit in the making of The Phantom Menace.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Maybe it's just ILM. No offense but the ILM of today isn't what it once was.

This statement makes absolutely no sense. ILM is still the standard bearer and innovator. Their work on The Winter Soldier is a great example.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Just because Lucas could shoot HD with AOTC doesn't mean he should've. If you're going to experiment, do another cheapie Raiodland Murders, don't visually tarnish an entry in the Star Wars saga forever. I guess at least by the time they got to ROTS the HD didn't look quite so bad, but even that would've looked better had it been shot on film, since PM looks better than both and was shot around the same time period.

BTW New Hope, Empire, Jedi, and Phantom Menace all deserve new 4k masters, and no I don't mean 4k discs or whatever, I mean they need to be mastered in 4k. The current discs (especially Phantom Menace) are lackluster to say the least. The only reason these got such a pass when they came out was because everyone was just so jazzed that Lucas was finally blessing the format with these flicks.

As I mentioned before, I think it's inevitable it's going to happen in whatever incarnation (original, special edition, etc.) - just a matter of 'when'. I hope with the new movie coming out in December 2015, they will have released new Blus remastered from 4K by that time - and then maybe in a few years those same masters can be used for 4K Blu for perhaps the next movie (~2018).

The current Blus just have too much of the 2004 DVD look to them.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

If the difference between 480 and 1080 AND lossless can't sell people, why would 4k?

Who says it hasn't? Blu-ray sales continue to rise year over year.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by chip75

It would be like asking PIXAR to go back and remake Toy Story to Toy Story 3 visual standards. I'm sure they'd say 'fine ... we'll see you in a few years!'

Uh, you do know that PIXAR actually DID this already, right?

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

It's not coincidence that they're focusing a lot of the marketing right now on the timeline consisting of Episode 4-6 and beyond since the Episode VII and Rebels take place after those episodes. Hardly indicative of anything. Just because you and a vocal minority don't like the Prequels, doesn't mean millions of others don't.

"The general public mocks the prequels." What? Do you ever go outside?

I'm pretty sure the general consensus is not kind to the prequel trilogy. At least from my experience. I could just as easily declare people that like the prequels to be a "vocal minority" of Star Wars fans-- I notice the term "vocal minority" is often used to make somebody's argument or opinion feel invalid.

I mean, The Phantom Menace is constantly referred to as a cinematic disappointment, and Attack of the Clones swept the Razzies in 2002 (deservedly so, in my opinion). I'm sure plenty of people find appreciation in the prequel trilogy, which is great for them, but I have to say that I never get much of an impression that they are generally thought of as "great movies" or measuring up to the original trilogy.

It's not a like we can take some kind of world-wide poll, but I'm going to have to disagree with you that people that criticize the prequels are some kind of minority of frothing-at-the-mouth "Lucas raped my childhood" fanboys.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I'm pretty sure the general consensus is not kind to the prequel trilogy. At least from my experience. I could just as easily declare people that like the prequels to be a "vocal minority" of Star Wars fans-- I notice the term "vocal minority" is often used to make somebody's argument or opinion feel invalid.

I mean, The Phantom Menace is constantly referred to as a cinematic disappointment, and Attack of the Clones swept the Razzies in 2002 (deservedly so, in my opinion). I'm sure plenty of people find appreciation in the prequel trilogy, which is great for them, but I have to say that I never get much of an impression that they are generally thought of as "great movies" or measuring up to the original trilogy.

It's not a like we can take some kind of world-wide poll, but I'm going to have to disagree with you that people that criticize the prequels are some kind of minority of frothing-at-the-mouth "Lucas raped my childhood" fanboys.

Bravo. If the OP actually read my post, he would see that its purpose wasn't to slaughter the prequels (though that could easily have been done). Clearly he's far too protective of that crap.