Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Indeed. ILM couldn't even re-render their own VFX for Phantom Menace 3D, not because they lost their work but because they didn't have any software capable of running it any more. People who assume that extant VFX can be magically re-rendered in 4K any time day or night don't have a clue.

Oh, and folks who think that 4K's spatial resolution alone is this magical panacea for picture quality is sadly mistaken. As I said a couple of pages ago, 4K movies are generally made with 2K upscaled VFX, and because the overwhelming majority of the prequels is made up of VFX of some form or another, even now those movies would basically be 2K upscaled shows. But by all means people, keep banging on about how shortsighted George Lucas was, even though he knew that 2K was good enough for theatrical projection (including IMAX 15/70 blowups) about 15 years ago.

My point was: it can be done. Whereas you can't re-shot a movie, unless you are remaking it.

I also never said that they would just launch Photoshop and *presto* all done. In a worst case scenario they would have to re-write the software from scratch, which I doubt that it would have to be done. In the end, it's all about the money studios want to spend on said movie.

[Gold Ranger]

Disney should ask CBS Digital to work on Star Wars!

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Just because Lucas could shoot HD with AOTC doesn't mean he should've. If you're going to experiment, do another cheapie Raiodland Murders, don't visually tarnish an entry in the Star Wars saga forever. I guess at least by the time they got to ROTS the HD didn't look quite so bad, but even that would've looked better had it been shot on film, since PM looks better than both and was shot around the same time period.

Except George Lucas is paying everything by himself. So really, I hate to sound snobbish, but he can do whatever he wants.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

This statement makes absolutely no sense. ILM is still the standard bearer and innovator. Their work on The Winter Soldier is a great example.

Exactly! Give ILM a demanding director and see how they break new grounds. I cannot wait for Transformers: Age of Extinction. Michael Bay is really one of the few directors that can break them.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Disney should ask CBS Digital to work on Star Wars!

That would be a gigantic step backwards.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Disney should ask CBS Digital to work on Star Wars!

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

That would be a gigantic step backwards.

CBS Digital does great work.

For television.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Eny-

My point was: it can be done. Whereas you can't re-shot a movie, unless you are remaking it.

I also never said that they would just launch Photoshop and *presto* all done. In a worst case scenario they would have to re-write the software from scratch, which I doubt that it would have to be done. In the end, it's all about the money studios want to spend on said movie.

Okay, let's say that in an ideal world all those 2K DI movies shot on 35mm or 4K/5K digital would be rebuilt in 4K - but what about every movie lensed on the 2.8K Arri Alexa? They won't be able to reshoot, say, The Avengers either.

That said, clean video footage tends to upscale very nicely, which is why the Alexa-originated Skyfall was uprezzed to 4K and IMAX 15/70 and by all accounts looked rather nice. Which goes back to my point in a prior post: image quality isn't just about lines and pixels. If you've got plenty of dynamic range and a low S/N ratio you can get away with murder on dat dere cinema screen, so even though eps II and III were only in HD I don't think we've seen the last of them (sorry if that disappoints people ) as we head into the 4K future.

And you're right, it's all about the money. The added expense of 3D has basically halted 4K in its tracks for big blockbuster movies unless you're Sony, who can afford to do both; it's no coincidence that the non-Sony, non-3D Catching Fire and Nolan's last two Bat-flicks had 4K DCPs. And the 3D conversion process for catalogue titles has given us an idea of how the studios will approach true 4K rebuilds: they'll do it properly for a select few titles, spending millions of dollars and those movies will look damned good too, but many more will be saddled with some sort of automated uprezzing process.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Just because Lucas could shoot HD with AOTC doesn't mean he should've. If you're going to experiment, do another cheapie Raiodland Murders, don't visually tarnish an entry in the Star Wars saga forever. I guess at least by the time they got to ROTS the HD didn't look quite so bad, but even that would've looked better had it been shot on film, since PM looks better than both and was shot around the same time period.

BTW New Hope, Empire, Jedi, and Phantom Menace all deserve new 4k masters, and no I don't mean 4k discs or whatever, I mean they need to be mastered in 4k. The current discs (especially Phantom Menace) are lackluster to say the least. The only reason these got such a pass when they came out was because everyone was just so jazzed that Lucas was finally blessing the format with these flicks.

Whilst it's true that the Original Trilogy could do with modern 4K Masters...

The Phantom Menace just needs to be reissued without the heavy DNR that's on the current BD, the actual HD master probably looks really good underneath all that filtering.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Whilst it's true that the Original Trilogy could do with modern 4K Masters...

The Phantom Menace just needs to be reissued without the heavy DNR that's on the current BD, the actual HD master that was used looks to be in very good shape and corrects all the issues that the DVD transfer had.

Yeah, the Phantom Menace dvd is one of the worst looking dvds to carry the mastered in THX label, that's for sure!

Whatever they can do to make it look good, they need to do it. Just because AOTC and ROTS were shot with lower than film quality HD cams doesn't meant Phantom Menace's visuals should be nerfed to make it look of poorer quality like those two films.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Disney should ask CBS Digital to work on Star Wars!

As crazy as this may sound Lowry might be a good option to re do the films.

They've come a very long way since 2004 when they did the current HD masters.

They're grain management tools are much better now, their newer transfers don't really suffer from the "frozen grain" look that they're earlier transfers had and we have tor remember that the colour timing and the black levels were deliberately altered and messed around with for the current transfers.

new 4K scans with the original colour timing and the film grain left intact would be perfect.

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Yeah, the Phantom Menace dvd is one of the worst looking dvds to carry the mastered in THX label, that's for sure!

Whatever they can do to make it look good, they need to do it. Just because AOTC and ROTS were shot with lower than film quality HD cams doesn't meant Phantom Menace's visuals should be nerfed to make it look of poorer quality like those two films.

I never understood the logic behind the decision to filter the film for BD to make it look like Episodes II & III when Episode III actual had fake grain added into it.

Also yeah that DVD is nasty, definitely one of the worst transfers in the history of the format.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

As crazy as this may sound Lowry might be a good option to re do the films.

They've come a very long way since 2004 when they did the current HD masters.

They're grain management tools are much better now, their newer transfers don't really suffer from the "frozen grain" look that they're earlier transfers had and we have tor remember that the colour timing and the black levels were deliberately altered and messed around with for the current transfers.

new 4K scans with the original colour timing and the film grain left intact would be perfect.



I never understood the logic behind the decision to filter the film for BD to make it look like Episodes II & III when Episode III actual had fake grain added into it.

Also yeah that DVD is nasty, definitely one of the worst transfers in the history of the format.

When I played my Phantom Menace dvd a few months back for my son, my wife thought it was a bootleg because it looked so bad.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

When I played my Phantom Menace dvd a few months back for my son, my wife thought it was a bootleg because it looked so bad.

They're so many things wrong with it:

Terrible colour timing

Edge Enhancement turned up to 11

And worst of all around half of the image is missing due to heavy cropping.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

CBS Digital does great work.

For television.

Yeah but what is the difference other than the budget? Look at the work they have done on TNG - it isn't bad. Given a bit of a budget, they might do a decent job for a low cost. Then again, maybe not.

Why can't Disney just be the ones to redo it? Look at the work they have done on thier animated stuff. Honestly, you could give it to just about any company because what company wants to be associated with a bad remastering of Star Wars? Unless the company is run by idiots who really just don't care, any company would work their ass off to make sure they do this right as this will make or break a company.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

CBS Digital does great work.

For television.

I was not impressed with TOS-HD. They improved as the seasons progressed but a lot of shots still had a CG look to them.


TNG-HD is a recomposite. If they had to do everything from scratch I don't think it would look near as good.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

When I played my Phantom Menace dvd a few months back for my son, my wife thought it was a bootleg because it looked so bad.

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

They're so many things wrong with it:

Terrible colour timing

Edge Enhancement turned up to 11

And worst of all around half of the image is missing due to heavy cropping.

There was talk that the last trilogy set released had the new transfer of The Phantom Menace but I haven't seen it in person. There's quite a lot of dirt on the original DVD which always surprised me (Gladiator's DVD had a lot of dirt too).

[OneBuckFilms]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I was not impressed with TOS-HD. They improved as the seasons progressed but a lot of shots still had a CG look to them.


TNG-HD is a recomposite. If they had to do everything from scratch I don't think it would look near as good.

They had to create a lot in CG to replace elements they couldn't find, or elements that would not hold up in HD (mostly planets).

Take a look at what they did for Unification at the starship breakers yard.

Some of those shots of the Enterprise-D are actually a completely CG recreation of the ship, because some particular elements could not be found for the ship itself.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

They're so many things wrong with it:

Terrible colour timing

Edge Enhancement turned up to 11

And worst of all around half of the image is missing due to heavy cropping.

I remember when home theater sites -- who were flown to Skywalker Ranch on a weekend-long press junket to promote the release of the DVD for Phantom Menace -- all came back and raved about it.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by chip75

There was talk that the last trilogy set released had the new transfer of The Phantom Menace but I haven't seen it in person. There's quite a lot of dirt on the original DVD which always surprised me (Gladiator's DVD had a lot of dirt too).

Are you on about the set that came out last year that came with DVD's?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Are you on about the set that came out last year that came with DVD's?

I think it's this set in the UK, whether they're the same discs that came with the US combo packs (or if TPM is remastered) I'm not sure.

[Roonan]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I remember when IGN and other sites -- who were flown to Skywalker Ranch on a weekend-long press junket to promote the release of the DVD for Phantom Menace -- all came back and raved about it.

Back then it was a great release (and still is, in terms of extras). Of course 10 years later it doesn't hold up. The standards and transfer process are different.

Originally Posted by chip75

I think it's this set in the UK, whether they're the same discs that came with the US combo packs (or if TPM is remastered) I'm not sure.

Those have the Blu-ray versions (TPM remastered and teal tinted AotC).