Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

While Kennedy and company will be forced to follow the continuation of the existing saga (i.e. the OT, the Clone Wars, Rebels, the most recently announced 'canon' books and sadly the prequels), they will most likely distance themselves as far from the prequels as possible in every way they can (i.e. no Hayden Christiansen or Ewan McGregor force ghosts, no mitichlorians, no mention of droid armies, trade federations, Count Dooku, etc.).

Precisely. Reading the comments from folks in this thread, I don't think many of them follow Star Wars news very closely.

Every arm of the franchise, from toy and collectable manufacturers, to publishing, down to party supplies, etc. - have either moved, or are in the process of moving, as far away from the prequels as possible. It's pretty much the reason for Rebels to begin with.

That said, the reasons aren't really creative, but financial. Star Wars product is planned up to 2 years in advance, and they are all just recovering from the blink-and-you-missed-it 3D release of TPM, and the rather abrupt cancellation of the remaining 3D theatrical releases. They had prequel product planned and manufactured to coincide with the releases, and retailers/etc. were stuck with mounds of unsold merchandise to promote films that didn't get released (it almost killed the main action figure line). Add to that the fact that prequel stuff generally sells less than OT to begin with, as those kids who bought toys/watched the PQ 15 years ago didn't become "hard core" SW collectors like a lot of us OT fans did - that's why you are starting to see the changeover already in merchandise. It's only going to be more obvious as we get closer to the new film.

Creatively, while Abrams has given very brief lip service to the prequels, everything else that has been said by him and pretty much everyone has all been about returning to the "magic" of the OT - real sets, real models, etc. - and the biggest FU of them all to Lucas - they are shooting on film. Real, actual film. Not the digital video that Lucas helped pioneer. I bet that was a pretty big personal blow for him (as much as anything can be, as he laughed his way to the bank to add 4B to his existing 3B).

There also is really little reason to reference the prequels, anyway - the events of those films are 50-80ish years before the new films, most everyone (aside from Luke and Leia) are either known-dead or rather easily presumed dead. There really aren't any plot lines that need to be resolved. The only remote connection I can possibly see them having would be either Ewan in a brief Force Ghost cameo or possibly something with Natalie Portman on "newsreel" holovid (if they pick up the EU thread of Luke and Leia researching her post-ROTJ when they know who they are/she is). Even those are doubtful, and I'd presume they would be in later episodes anyway if at all.

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

With Yoda having passed away, you really cannot do anything with Oz.

Lando was never really a central Star Wars character, so I can see him being left out.

Oh, Yoda will show up at some point as a Force Ghost, I am sure.

As to Billy Dee, I have a feeling we will see him briefly in VII, and see him in a larger role in VIII or IX - I mean, he at least needs to come back for

[Show spoiler]the funeral

...

(Note, that is total absolute speculation, but as it is really well known that

[Show spoiler]Han was supposed to die in the original film to begin with, and then again - with huge support of Harrison Ford - in ROTJ, I can't imagine that Ford signed on to the project without negotiating a big epic "make it matter" death, likely in the first new film, if not, early in the second

).

[Kryptonic]

Star Wars (meaning novels, comics, toys, etc.) focused on the OT timeline from 1977 to 1999. Star Wars then focused on the Clone Wars era for about 15 years due to the films and series. Now that the focus is back on the Empire/Rebellion section of the story, the focus is of course now going back to that part of the timeline. It wouldn't make much sense to solely focus on the 4-6 timeline during the time that the Prequels and Clone Wars series were being released, just like it doesn't make much sense to do the opposite right now. I guarantee you there will be Clone Wars era stories being published and toys made in the future.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

and they are all just recovering from the blink-and-you-missed-it 3D release of TPM,

The Phantom Conversion made a lot of money in the Cinema.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

The Phantom Conversion made a lot of money in the Cinema.

I agree. Over $100M worldwide for a movie that a vocal online minority considers to be one of the worst movies ever fifteen years after its original release is pretty impressive. It was on par with Jurassic Park 3D, which is pretty much considered a classic at this point.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Creatively, while Abrams has given very brief lip service to the prequels, everything else that has been said by him and pretty much everyone has all been about returning to the "magic" of the OT - real sets, real models, etc. - and the biggest FU of them all to Lucas - they are shooting on film. Real, actual film. Not the digital video that Lucas helped pioneer. I bet that was a pretty big personal blow for him (as much as anything can be, as he laughed his way to the bank to add 4B to his existing 3B).

Abrams is shooting on film because he prefers anamorphic. While there are digital cameras that can do that now it's still his preference for 35MM Panavision. It isn't a "FU" to Lucas any more than Spielberg shooting Crystal Skull in 35MM anamorphic.


As for sets and models, he always uses ILM (all CG with occasional farm outs to other facilities) and the STAR TREK films had large amounts of digital set extensions. He is more than comfortable with the technology. You can bet there will be just as many blue/green screens on this film as his TREK productions, if not more.

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I agree. Over $100M worldwide for a movie that a vocal online minority considers to be one of the worst movies ever fifteen years after its original release is pretty impressive. It was on par with Jurassic Park 3D, which is pretty much considered a classic at this point.

Yup, and I went to see it, and the crowd loved it. And I loved it. So obviously not everyone hates it.

[klauswhereareyou]

Preaty sure all of the special editions released in 1997 made more than Phantom Menace 3-D did domestically (New Hope by a huge margin, Jedi just barely) without adjustment for inflation and the fact that 3-D surcharges were not tacked on. One can only imagine that AOTC 3-D would've made less than Phantom Menace 3-D.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Preaty sure all of the special editions released in 1997 made more than Phantom Menace 3-D did domestically (New Hope by a huge margin, Jedi just barely) without adjustment for inflation and the fact that 3-D surcharges were not tacked on. One can only imagine that AOTC 3-D would've made less than Phantom Menace 3-D.

Aside from 3D, the Phantom Menace was released with no additional scenes or remastering. The OT came from a different era before two dozen auditorium theaters and the availability of the films on VHS and DVD that you could watch 24/7 if you wanted to. The Phantom Menace was even released after the Blu-ray release which used the same transfer. If you wanted to see the OT newly restored with new scenes with the best possible sound, you had to see them in theaters and a couple of generations had probably never even seen them in widescreen, let alone on the big screen. If you wanted to do the same for TPM, you just had to have a nice HDTV and surround system.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Aside from 3D, the Phantom Menace was released with no additional scenes or remastering. The OT came from a different era before two dozen auditorium theaters and the availability of the films on VHS and DVD that you could watch 24/7 if you wanted to. The Phantom Menace was even released after the Blu-ray release which used the same transfer. If you wanted to see the OT newly restored with new scenes with the best possible sound, you had to see them in theaters and a couple of generations had probably never even seen them in widescreen, let alone on the big screen. If you wanted to do the same for TPM, you just had to have a nice HDTV and surround system.

I would imagine that if the OT was released tomorrow in theaters in 3-D, they would make more than Phantom Menace...just my two cents...and this is coming from someone who actually kind of likes Phantom Menace.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

My guess is they're saying the prequels are canon to not hurt Lucas' ego, but is it that hard to belive that the events of the prequels as told in the prequels will be all but forgotten in the new films? It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Will old man Han go podracing with Sebulba. Will a new Jedi apprentice go hang out on Naboo with Boss Nass and Captain Panaka? Will there be talk of midichlorians or bringing balance to the force?

My bet is that the events in Episodes IV-VI aren't mentioned either. And if they are, it will be a very brief mention - maybe someone brings up Vader to say that there's a new Sith Lord or that there's been peace for 30 years or something.

I don't think it's that Abrams & co. want to stay away from the prequels. It's that they want to do something new, in spite of the presence of Han, Leia, Luke, R2D2 and C3PO. If there's an allusion to the originals, it will be very subtle - they'll let the audience figure that out. I bet they'll also be a few lines of dialog that harken back to the originals, like "Never tell me the odds" and "I love you"..."I know".

Besides, even if not a single event in the prequels is mentioned, it doesn't make the prequels not canon. I believe the prequels are most certainly canon, even if Lucas himself created inconsistencies between the PT and the OT.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

My bet is that the events in Episodes IV-VI aren't mentioned either. And if they are, it will be a very brief mention - maybe someone brings up Vader to say that there's a new Sith Lord or that there's been peace for 30 years or something.

I don't think it's that Abrams & co. want to stay away from the prequels. It's that they want to do something new, in spite of the presence of Han, Leia, Luke, R2D2 and C3PO. If there's an allusion to the originals, it will be very subtle - they'll let the audience figure that out. I bet they'll also be a few lines of dialog that harken back to the originals, like "Never tell me the odds" and "I love you"..."I know".

Besides, even if not a single event in the prequels is mentioned, it doesn't make the prequels not canon. I believe the prequels are most certainly canon, even if Lucas himself created inconsistencies between the PT and the OT.

Well see I'm thinking more along the lines of aliens, characters, planets that were introduced in the PT not being shown at all in the new films. We know aliens, characters, and planets from the OT will be showing up just by casting and shooting locations. Will we be seeing Podracers, gungans, whatever the heck Watto was, bug dudes that built the death star, trade federation ships, Naboo, etc....

I guess maybe Coruscant might be about the only thing that'll make the cut...maybe??

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

The Phantom Conversion made a lot of money in the Cinema.

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I agree. Over $100M worldwide for a movie that a vocal online minority considers to be one of the worst movies ever fifteen years after its original release is pretty impressive. It was on par with Jurassic Park 3D, which is pretty much considered a classic at this point.

$100 million today is nothing and more than that was probably spent on the marketing. Regardless, if Lucasfilm had considered it successful, we would have seen 3D conversions on the others and those originally planned releases were killed. So I don't think it was successful.

However, what might make sense is a re-release of the PT and OT with or without 3D, possibly remixed in Dolby Atmos, scheduled in the months leading up to the release of the new film. Maybe each of the six films play theatrically for a week each. Dolby Atmos lends itself perfectly to battles in space (even if in the real physical universe, there is no sound in space) and other instances where the distinct sounds are supposed to come from all around you.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Well see I'm thinking more along the lines of aliens, characters, planets that were introduced in the PT not being shown at all in the new films. We know aliens, characters, and planets from the OT will be showing up just by casting and shooting locations. Will we be seeing Podracers, gungans, whatever the heck Watto was, bug dudes that built the death star, trade federation ships, Naboo, etc....

I guess maybe Coruscant might be about the only thing that'll make the cut...maybe??

But does any of that matter? Except for the fanboys, does anyone remember all those specifics anyway? I think what people care about is after all the years, how has the relationship between Leia, Solo and Luke changed or not changed? What have they done in the intervening years? What is the relationship of the new characters to the old characters? And what is the new threat and why are they a threat? And does it all make sense? I don't think anyone really cares what planet they're from or whether various aliens look the same as aliens we've seen before.

Is it going to be The Godfather (son doesn't want to be in the "family business" and become a Jedi, but rushes to father's aid when his family is attacked -or- rebellious son (or nephew) goes to the dark side and Luke must save him) or is it simply a new baddie Sith Lord who wants to accomplish what Vader didn't and Luke and/or his offspring must battle to once again save the galaxy.

Hopefully, Abrams won't use any of the typical scenarios that idiots like me can think of and will find a totally new and far more interersting plot line. But hopefully, it won't be (like the Star Trek reboot) just some baddie space thug who either wants to destroy or rule the entire universe. Those kinds of plots NEVER made sense to me. Even in the originals, it was never really explained WHY the Empire wanted to rule the universe. What would Palpatine have gotten out of it?

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

But does any of that matter? Except for the fanboys, does anyone remember all those specifics anyway? I think what people care about is after all the years, how has the relationship between Leia, Solo and Luke changed or not changed? What have they done in the intervening years? What is the relationship of the new characters to the old characters? And what is the new threat and why are they a threat? And does it all make sense? I don't think anyone really cares what planet they're from or whether various aliens look the same as aliens we've seen before.

Is it going to be The Godfather (son doesn't want to be in the "family business" and become a Jedi, but rushes to father's aid when his family is attacked -or- rebellious son (or nephew) goes to the dark side and Luke must save him) or is it simply a new baddie Sith Lord who wants to accomplish what Vader didn't and Luke and/or his offspring must battle to once again save the galaxy.

Hopefully, Abrams won't use any of the typical scenarios that idiots like me can think of and will find a totally new and far more interersting plot line. But hopefully, it won't be (like the Star Trek reboot) just some baddie space thug who either wants to destroy or rule the entire universe. Those kinds of plots NEVER made sense to me. Even in the originals, it was never really explained WHY the Empire wanted to rule the universe. What would Palpatine have gotten out of it?

Well this was the explanation per ROTS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TTN-Ev2KI

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

$100 million today is nothing and more than that was probably spent on the marketing. Regardless, if Lucasfilm had considered it successful, we would have seen 3D conversions on the others and those originally planned releases were killed. So I don't think it was successful.

I think the move to Disney had more to do with the cancelled 3D re-releases more than anything else. If I remember the budget for the conversion was around $10M or so, so $100M on a $10M budget is pretty good. As far as 3D re-releases goes, it was on par with Jurassic Park and significantly more than Beauty and the Beast.

[LimeiBook86]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I think the move to Disney had more to do with the cancelled 3D re-releases more than anything else. If I remember the budget for the conversion was around $10M or so, so $100M on a $10M budget is pretty good. As far as 3D re-releases goes, it was on par with Jurassic Park and significantly more than Beauty and the Beast.

I went to see Episode 1 in 3D and now I'm glad I did since the rest weren't coming out. The theater was packed, really, almost every seat was full. It was a fun experience, I would have liked to see the rest in 3D just for fun. Unsure if I would ever buy them on Blu-ray if they were released however.

I think they may have gotten a better reception if they released Episodes 4, 5 and 6 first... However they probably had an easier time making Episode 1 3D due to all the CGI effects, etc. I can see the originals being hard to "3D-ify", and maybe they thought the demographics favored the prequels (or maybe they were "cheaper" to convert as a test...)

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Aside from 3D, the Phantom Menace was released with no additional scenes or remastering. The OT came from a different era before two dozen auditorium theaters and the availability of the films on VHS and DVD that you could watch 24/7 if you wanted to. The Phantom Menace was even released after the Blu-ray release which used the same transfer. If you wanted to see the OT newly restored with new scenes with the best possible sound, you had to see them in theaters and a couple of generations had probably never even seen them in widescreen, let alone on the big screen. If you wanted to do the same for TPM, you just had to have a nice HDTV and surround system.

Except for maybe the CGI Yoda that replaced the puppet .

[stvn1974]

I really don't think that the prequels are as hated as much as people want to believe. They made a ton of money at the theater, sold great on home video and the merchandise does well. Those of us that hate, loathe and despise them are a minority but just more vocal.

[RayCRP]

Originally Posted by Torgon

Except for maybe the CGI Yoda that replaced the puppet .

Wasn't the CG TPM Yoda in place long before the conversion? I feel like it was shown on the ROTS bonus features somewhere.

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by RayCRP

Wasn't the CG TPM Yoda in place long before the conversion? I feel like it was shown on the ROTS bonus features somewhere.

May be true, but it was the first time CGI Yoda was seen in TPM at the theater (which is what he is referring to, mainly).