Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Prove to me that the UOT is going to sell millions of copies and be worth the money to sink millions into restoring the original versions? There are no numbers on either side and we can both claim certain things, but at least I can look at the numbers and say that the current boxset has sold millions of copies, made hundreds of millions in revenue, and that likely, the majority of people that want to own Star Wars on Blu-ray have probably already purchased the current editions and chances are unlikely that they will buy another version should it be released. Now of course it will sell (it's Star Wars afterall) and probably pretty well for a catalog title, but the chances that it's going to be some huge windfall for Disney, who are going to have to spend a pretty penny restoring the films, are highly unlikely.

First off, I never claimed that the UOT would sell millions of copies. You're the only one who's made any claims of sales figures, ones which are still wholly unsubstantiated. Second, you are grossly overestimating the cost, much like Ol' Flannel Beard did when self-justifying putting out only the SEs. To wit:

Originally Posted by The Digital Bits

No less an authority than Robert A. Harris – our longtime friend, film preservation expert, and former Bits contributor – confirmed for us that not only did the original elements still exist and that the original theatrical versions could certainly be restored (at worst case high quality prints remain preserved in archives around the world), it could be done relatively easily compared to other projects, and for a modest sum.

By the way, I'm still waiting for actual proof to back up your claims instead of supposition and exaggerations...

[klauswhereareyou]

Actually as someone with a keen interest in film history, I think that this film deserves an HD release in it's orginal version for the sake of that. Afterall, the effects from 1977 are what won an Oscar, not the ones from 1997, 2004, or 2011. Same goes for the sound, editing, and music, all of which were altered.

As far as money goes, would release of the unaltered versions make a ton of money, I doubt it, but I'm sure they would make enough to pay back the costs of restoring/releasing them and then some. Afterall the group of people who would buy these are I would assume 30 and up, an age group more apt to purchase physical media than those weened on the special editions, and a group they may have the disposable income as well.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

In regards to the colour timing, I have no clue how the films originally looked as I never saw them theatrically as I was even born yet and even if I did I probably wouldn't remember how they looked anyway.

And even if you did see the theatrically, you wouldn't know how they looked because they looked different in each theatre.

In those days for big films (although Star Wars didn't become "big" until AFTER it was released), carefully checked prints (especially the 70mm prints) were made for the initial releases, especially for Los Angeles and New York premieres. In the decades before that, some theaters even used to receive special rectified prints if they had steep projection rakes in the gigantic old theaters. Sometimes the premiere theaters would get quality dye-transfer prints. But outside of the major cities, the prints were more likely to be "mass produced" and didn't look as good.

Having said that, it was much easier to maintain quality when initial runs were a few hundred prints compared to the thousands of prints that are made for release in more recent years, although today, the "prints" are DCPs as film is phased out.

Also, the specific circumstances in any given theatre - the brightness of the image, whether they were still using arc lamps or had switched to Xenon, the projection lenses used, etc., would all have an impact on how that image and how the colors would look on the screen.

So there's no one way that any film ever looked.

I used to consult for a company that checked presentation quality in theaters on opening day. Due to NDAs, I can't name the company. But the point is that when a film played at a multiplex, we had to check every screen the film played on and I can tell you that even within the same multiplex, it was a totally different experience moving from screen to screen - it was almost like seeing a different movie and audiences reacted totally differently in each screen.

So if anyone (outside of whoever did the color timing on the original) tells you they know exactly how the color timing is supposed to look for any film, they have no idea what they're talking about. All they can tell you is how it looked for them on the occasion they saw the film and that's assuming they can truly remember.

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

Why is selling well as a catalog title not good enough? Why should putting the Star Wars movies on Blu-ray be a bigger risk than, say, Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend?

I don't see the need for the drama around this situation. It's not like it hurts the prequels or the SEs for the original versions to be released on Blu-ray.

I don't see the need either. Yeah you can't please everyone and I'm sure somewhere out there is someone who wants only the unaltered release and nothing else to ever be released, but from my experience most of us who want the UAT simply want the option to be able to purchase it. We aren't screaming with torches and pitchforks threatening to destroy all copies of the prequels and special editions. We just want the option to watch the movie we remember in the best format of the time. There's room at the table for all fans, no one need be excluded.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by 2awesome4apossum

I'll be the first to admit that I don't get the fuss. I'm precious about movies being unaltered, generally speaking, but with Star Wars it seems a bit silly, because the changes are so minimal.

Let me make it clear, I'm not wanting to troll anyone, but I *would* like someone to calmly explain to me why the "big deal" items are such a big deal.

STAR WARS and its original visual effects are a significant piece of film history, just like the original KING KONG and 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. Lucas came along twenty years later and decided to obliterate that history and REPLACE those ground-breaking (Academy Award winning) original effects with new, cartoonish digital effects. He labeled it as a "Special Edition" at the time, and it all would have been fine as long as the originals were still available. Since then, however, the whole "Special Edition" moniker has been dropped and Lucas has all but obliterated the original versions.

To me, it's honestly as bad as someone colorizing CITIZEN KANE and then saying: "oh, sorry… in order to colorize it, we had to affect the original negative, so this is now the only official and high-quality version you'll be able to get. In fact, we've even gone into the Library of Congress and replaced the black & white CITIZEN KANE print with the new colorized version."

BLADE RUNNER, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, and LOTR (among others) all give viewers the choice of seeing whichever cut they want, and present those multiple cuts with the same high quality presentation. There's no reason a true classic of cinema like the original STAR WARS shouldn't be treated with the same respect.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by svenge

First off, I never claimed that the UOT would sell millions of copies. You're the only one who's made any claims of sales figures, ones which are still wholly unsubstantiated. Second, you are grossly overestimating the cost, much like Ol' Flannel Beard did when self-justifying putting out only the SEs. To wit:

And where is his proof that you're interested in? Oh, Bill Hunt said it, so it must be true. He's never been wrong. He has no bias. How silly of me. If you're going to be this anal retentive, you have to act that way with regards to all of the data, not just the data that skews your way.

By the way, I'm still waiting for actual proof to back up your claims instead of supposition and exaggerations...

There's no way to predict how well it will sell, other than using the current editions sales as a jumping off point. All I've said is that I think many are getting to far ahead of themselves in thinking that this is going to be some revelatory experience for the format or for humankind or whatever. Do you have actual proof that it's not going to cost Disney millions to restore and can you provide proof that it's going to sell millions? You're taking the other side of the argument, so either sh*t or get off the pot.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Prove to me that the UOT is going to sell millions of copies and be worth the money to sink millions into restoring the original versions? There are no numbers on either side and we can both claim certain things, but at least I can look at the numbers and say that the current boxset has sold millions of copies, made hundreds of millions in revenue, and that likely, the majority of people that want to own Star Wars on Blu-ray have probably already purchased the current editions and chances are unlikely that they will buy another version should it be released. Now of course it will sell (it's Star Wars afterall) and probably pretty well for a catalog title, but the chances that it's going to be some huge windfall for Disney, who are going to have to spend a pretty penny restoring the films, are highly unlikely.

The originals restored will sell quite well. The fan base alone is big enough to justify and most fans prefer the originals, pure and simple. All of the hype leading up to the new movie will help generate Star Wars awareness again too for the non fan base.

And I don't believe the cost of restoring these is going to be as large as one might think.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Actually as someone with a keen interest in film history, I think that this film deserves an HD release in it's orginal version for the sake of that. Afterall, the effects from 1977 are what won an Oscar, not the ones from 1997, 2004, or 2011. Same goes for the sound, editing, and music, all of which were altered.

As far as money goes, would release of the unaltered versions make a ton of money, I doubt it, but I'm sure they would make enough to pay back the costs of restoring/releasing them and then some. Afterall the group of people who would buy these are I would assume 30 and up, an age group more apt to purchase physical media than those weened on the special editions, and a group they may have the disposable income as well.

Thank you, this is exactly how I feel regarding the Theatrical Cuts on BD.

The original versions are a huge part of film history and a whole generation of people grew up watching those versions and not the Special Editions.

[stvn1974]

I am positive that the OOT would sell like crazy and enough copies to warrant a full restoration.


Also, why are some of you even arguing with someone who has Jar Jar Binks as their profile pic?

[welcometothepartypal]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I am positive that the OOT would sell like crazy and enough copies to warrant a full restoration.


Also, why are some of you even arguing with someone who has Jar Jar Binks as their profile pic?

This ^

[octagon]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The originals restored will sell quite well. The fan base alone is big enough to justify and most fans prefer the originals, pure and simple. All of the hype leading up to the new movie will help generate Star Wars awareness again too for the non fan base.

And I don't believe the cost of restoring these is going to be as large as one might think.

The relevant fanbase here really isn't all that big.

http://www.the-numbers.com/alltime-bluray-sales-chart

As of the end of the last year the Complete Saga sold 1.7M units. That's a respectable enough number for a pricey box set but it's not the kind of number that suggests some vast, untapped riches ripe for the taking.

I don't know what kind of numbers the OT standalone set moved but what's a realistic ballpark for a combined total? 2.5M? Maybe 3M?

Star Wars is huge by any standard. Star Wars on Blu-ray is only huge by Blu-ray standards. And a UOT release - for all the heat and buzz it would generate - wouldn't even be huge by that standard.

It wouldn't move millions of units. It wouldn't even move hundreds of thousands of units. In all likelihood it would move tens of thousands of units.

That's certainly a respectable enough number and would probably cover restoration costs but all this talk of free money and financial windfalls is unwarranted.

This release might very well happen someday but nobody is going to get rich doing it.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I am positive that the OOT would sell like crazy and enough copies to warrant a full restoration.

You sell some copies to the diehards and then what?

Also, why are some of you even arguing with someone who has Jar Jar Binks as their profile pic?

I'm betting more people can ID Jar Jar than Mal. They probably would just say "Castle"

[rickah88]

If they release the UOT on BD, especially now with Lucas out of the picture(for the most part), then what would all the fanboys have to complain about?

JJ? Lens flare? Old age?

[stvn1974]

If Disney/Fox were smart when they do release the OOT they will release DVDs too. They would probably sell more copies than a BD only set.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by octagon

The relevant fanbase here really isn't all that big.

http://www.the-numbers.com/alltime-bluray-sales-chart

As of the end of the last year the Complete Saga sold 1.7M units. That's a respectable enough number for a pricey box set but it's not the kind of number that suggests some vast, untapped riches ripe for the taking.

I don't know what kind of numbers the OT standalone set moved but what's a realistic ballpark for a combined total? 2.5M? Maybe 3M?

Star Wars is huge by any standard. Star Wars on Blu-ray is only huge by Blu-ray standards. And a UOT release - for all the heat and buzz it would generate - wouldn't even be huge by that standard.

It wouldn't move millions of units. It wouldn't even move hundreds of thousands of units. In all likelihood it would move tens of thousands of units.

That's certainly a respectable enough number and would probably cover restoration costs but all this talk of free money and financial windfalls is unwarranted.

This release might very well happen someday but nobody is going to get rich doing it.

I dunno, if they hyped it up then it'd probably shift a fair few units.

But that's why I think a theatrical run would work even better, 'cause if they REALLY want to capture the nostalgia of the original versions then what better place to do it than in theaters, fans surrounded by hundreds of other like-minded people, instead of a few guys watching it at home in their man-caves with the lights off? (Guilty as charged.)

If it took even a tenth of what the '97 SE hauled in ($138 million just for Star Wars! ) then that'd pay for the restoration a few times over, and the Blu-ray version would be the icing on top. But the timing of a theatrical release near to the actual release of Ep VII could be problematic, which is why I'd reserve it for the 40th anniversary. That said, they could just as well release it to home video to drum up fan fervour for Ep VII, and then release it theatrically in 2017 anyway.

[OneBuckFilms]

Seems that restoring and releasing the UOT is certainly feasible, as far as I can tell, and I suspect Disney may very well be working on this, or planning to work on this, perhaps with a cost/profit sharing deal with Fox for distribution.

If so, it would be a welcome acknowledgement of an important part of movie history and preservation.

Mr. Lucas has every right to assert the Blu-ray version as his definitive versions of the movies, but the works as they were originally produced need to be respected.

I would LOVE a release that presented both versions of the movie, perhaps with special features highlighting the history of how the alterations came about, in addition to the making of the initial version of the film.

Think of the approach with BladeRunner Final Cut.

The final cut has had some changes made since the initial theatrical releases.

Lucas can have his say on the release as to the version he finds definitive and why, but history will also be respected.

Different fans can then decide which editions of the trilogy to consider definitive.

Here's to possibilities, regardless of who shot first.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I dunno, if they hyped it up then it'd probably shift a fair few units.

But that's why I think a theatrical run would work even better, 'cause if they REALLY want to capture the nostalgia of the original versions then what better place to do it than in theaters, fans surrounded by hundreds of other like-minded people, instead of a few guys watching it at home in their man-caves with the lights off? (Guilty as charged.)

If it took even a tenth of what the '97 SE hauled in ($138 million just for Star Wars! ) then that'd pay for the restoration a few times over, and the Blu-ray version would be the icing on top. But the timing of a theatrical release near to the actual release of Ep VII could be problematic, which is why I'd reserve it for the 40th anniversary. That said, they could just as well release it to home video to drum up fan fervour for Ep VII, and then release it theatrically in 2017 anyway.

Re-release of the first movie, with an exclusive short film that leads into episode 7???

[Geoff D]

Hah! Don't worry about a short film, there'll be more tie-ins and comic prequels than you can shake a stick at come December 2015.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hah! Don't worry about a short film, there'll be more tie-ins and comic prequels than you can shake a stick at come December 2015.

I'm sure, I'm just thinking what carrot they could dangle for those to go see it other than it just being the original version. In 1997 it was new footage/effects. Maybe if the released the Original version of Star Wars they could make a short that leads into the new films...or the first trailer...etc..

[Nocturnaloner]

Inevitably, the UOT will be released on blu ray. Might not happen for Episode VII, but it will eventually.