Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But that's why I think a theatrical run would work even better, 'cause if they REALLY want to capture the nostalgia of the original versions then what better place to do it than in theaters, fans surrounded by hundreds of other like-minded people, instead of a few guys watching it at home in their man-caves with the lights off? (Guilty as charged.)

I haven't seen the inside of a theater in years but that would be a blast.

Edit: and while I'm pretty firmly in the camp that agrees that most people don't care too terribly much about most of the changes I would expect deafening (and largely good natured) applause when Han fires

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I get it, you hate that process. I did too after seeing what they did to the Bond films and the Star Wars OT (fake grain ahoy!) but the staggeringly good quality of Aliens, Terminator and Titanic opened my eyes to the sterling work that they're doing now. I think it helped that Lowry have worked on several theatrical projects in recent years for perfectionists like David Fincher and James Cameron, so they got a proper idea of what this stuff should look like when they're done with it.

Besides, grain replication/replacement is something that's been part of Hollywood's digital evolution from the outset. When ILM first started to dabble with digital VFX, and I mean waaay back in the '80s, the need to have it look suitably "film like" was one of their main concerns, and so they came up with their own grain replication techniques to add that vital layer of filmic texture. Now it's crossed over into film restoration in general, and if you think that it's only Lowry who'd do such a "disgusting" thing, think again: everyone's doing it, darling.

A serious restoration (e.g. Taxi Driver, Blue Velvet) would never use this sort of "technique". Maybe a digital hack like Cameron likes it, but a real filmmaker would never do it.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

A serious restoration (e.g. Taxi Driver, Blue Velvet) would never use this sort of "technique". Maybe a digital hack like Cameron likes it, but a real filmmaker would never do it.

Give me a break.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by octagon

The relevant fanbase here really isn't all that big.

http://www.the-numbers.com/alltime-bluray-sales-chart

As of the end of the last year the Complete Saga sold 1.7M units. That's a respectable enough number for a pricey box set but it's not the kind of number that suggests some vast, untapped riches ripe for the taking.

I don't know what kind of numbers the OT standalone set moved but what's a realistic ballpark for a combined total? 2.5M? Maybe 3M?

Star Wars is huge by any standard. Star Wars on Blu-ray is only huge by Blu-ray standards. And a UOT release - for all the heat and buzz it would generate - wouldn't even be huge by that standard.

And how many people refused to buy because it didn't include the unaltered theatrical cuts? I include at least myself in that unknown figure.

Star Wars on blu-ray is a different film from the theatrical cut. You may as well say there's no demand for the unaltered trilogy because Clone Wars didn't sell that many copies.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by thebard

And how many people refused to buy because it didn't include the unaltered theatrical cuts? I include at least myself in that unknown figure.

That is a big factor there.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by thebard

And how many people refused to buy because it didn't include the unaltered theatrical cuts? I include at least myself in that unknown figure.

Star Wars on blu-ray is a different film from the theatrical cut. You may as well say there's no demand for the unaltered trilogy because Clone Wars didn't sell that many copies.

I don't know how many people refused to buy the existing BDs because they wanted unaltered cuts but I very strongly suspect there aren't millions of those people lurking in the weeds just waiting to pounce on a UOT bd release.

Are there thousands of people like you out there? Of course. Tens of thousands? Perhaps.

Hundreds of thousands or millions? No, sorry, don't see it.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

A serious restoration (e.g. Taxi Driver, Blue Velvet) would never use this sort of "technique". Maybe a digital hack like Cameron likes it, but a real filmmaker would never do it.

[blergedandlawyered]

As far as speculation of lack of interest for the OUT on blu when it comes to the masses and people who grew up on the prequels and the 97 SE's....

I grew up on the SE's...and still pined for the OUT I kept hearing about. I was just able to watch the Despecialized of ANH on Saturday, and let me tell you...it was a revelation. Everything that I'd ever hoped for, and it fueled my love for Star Wars even more. Granted, this is also coming from someone who despises the prequel trilogy, so my opinion may not be valid to some. In any case, I'm sure there are others out there like me who would gladly pay for the OUT on blu. I bought the saga set, and I would GLADLY double dip. It'd be a day one purchase - and very few things are day ones for me.

I think the desire for the OUT is quite underestimated by some. Marketed correctly and restored with care (the sort of care that Disney is known for), it could be a rather big seller.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by octagon

I don't know how many people refused to buy the existing BDs because they wanted unaltered cuts but I very strongly suspect there aren't millions of those people lurking in the weeds just waiting to pounce on a UOT bd release.

Are there thousands of people like you out there? Of course. Tens of thousands? Perhaps.

Hundreds of thousands or millions? No, sorry, don't see it.

Even if there are hundreds, it doesn't mean it will be a financial wash for them.

Ghost in the Shell was released on blu-ray with only it's 2.0 version receiving a hi-def transfer in western markets. The original cut was released only in Asia... now it is OOP and goes for ~$50 (amray) to ~$100 (box set) on the secondary market. A re-release is now coming out in the UK with the original cut. Is Ghost in the Shell more popular than Star Wars?

At the time Blade Runner was released on blu, a theatrical cut DVD did not exist. Fans were stuck with a laserdisc if they wanted it. The blu-ray set included quality (for the time) transfers of the theatrical, director's, workprint, international and final cuts. This for a fan base that seemingly overwhelmingly prefers the director's changes to the film. The worst of the transfers, the workprint, even had an intro from the director, explaining why the PQ was the way it was, and that he felt it looked as good as it could. (If Disney does release the UOT, incedentally, what kind of intro would we get for that? "We're sorry it looks choppy at the SE edit points, but the director was being a p%$&k about releasing the footage!") Is Blade Runner more popular than Star Wars?

It doesn't make any sense to me not to release the original cuts of Star Wars.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by thebard

It doesn't make any sense to me not to release the original cuts of Star Wars.

I don't think too many people are arguing that a UOT release doesn't make sense or that it would lose money. I'm certainly not arguing that.

I'm simply suggesting that a UOT release probably wouldn't be the bottomless pot o' gold many people seem to think it would be.

[thebard]

Fair enough.

[Ryan0503]

I'd certainly buy the UOT day one for almost any price (assuming they gave it the proper restoration) ... also I'm still hoping for the 3D versions to come to bluray!!! Unpopular opinion I know but I know that the prequels are done, and from what I saw of EPII the 3D is amazing ... I'd love and Ultimate Saga release with the UOT and all 6 in 3D to drop right before EPVII!!!!!

[milo bloom]

Originally Posted by thebard

And how many people refused to buy because it didn't include the unaltered theatrical cuts? I include at least myself in that unknown figure.

Star Wars on blu-ray is a different film from the theatrical cut. You may as well say there's no demand for the unaltered trilogy because Clone Wars didn't sell that many copies.

I refused to buy the saga box new, I eventually found a used copy for a decent price (though it's probably what the new price *should* have been).

I know I personally held out because the set didn't have the OOT versions, I have no issue with the prequels, and even enjoy rewatching them from time to time. But the extras discs are pretty shoddy. Difficult navigation and a bunch of parodies and clips of other shows talking about Star Wars?

I bought the 2004 DVD set new, and the prequel 2 disc DVD sets new but I couldn't bring myself to buy another set new without the originals.


Regarding Disney's ROI on restoring and releasing the original versions on Bluray, look at films like Blade Runner or Close Encounters of the Third Kind (very good films in their own right, I own both), but I would wager their franchise recognizance is much lower than Star Wars, and both of these films received multiple releases with the different cuts included. The BladeRunner set even got a new reissue in digipack packaging and all that. Heck, you could even look at a company like Criterion - a bunch of foreign, black and white films about people talking about their feelings? And they manage to turn a profit? (Don't get mad, I'm a Criterion collector too )

The pushback has always been Lucas. He may have thrown out words to the effect of "cost" and "availability of negatives", but the Disney deal is a gamechanger. Heck, Lucas may have even heaved a sigh of relief, knowing that somebody else was going to have deal with us loonies from now on


Even if they just "broke even", I think Disney releasing high quality versions of the theatrical cuts on Bluray would be worth their while for helping to reinvigorate the classic trilogy fanbase. They know Lucas' attitude damaged the franchise, and they're not going to say anything about it, but they'll just shift their promotions to rebuilding the goodwill he squandered. They want the theatrical releases of 7,8,9 to be good and most importantly, they want the toys to sell.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by milo bloom

The pushback has always been Lucas. He may have thrown out words to the effect of "cost" and "availability of negatives", but the Disney deal is a gamechanger. Heck, Lucas may have even heaved a sigh of relief, knowing that somebody else was going to have deal with us loonies from now on

Lucas "may have" breathed a sigh of relief? Are you kidding?

It's probably one of the main reasons he sold it all on, he was fed up with getting shit from everybody, and the difficulty he had selling Red Tails was the straw that broke the bantha's back, he was so disappointed. The 4 billion dollars also had something to do with it, yes, but I genuinely feel that Lucas had enough of the business called show and he wanted to get on with his life again.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by octagon

I don't know how many people refused to buy the existing BDs because they wanted unaltered cuts but I very strongly suspect there aren't millions of those people lurking in the weeds just waiting to pounce on a UOT bd release.

Are there thousands of people like you out there? Of course. Tens of thousands? Perhaps.

Hundreds of thousands or millions? No, sorry, don't see it.

Have to agree. I am sure there are some people who did not buy the blu-rays just like there are some people who did not buy the dvds because the original versions were not released yet those sold well. Yes, it is an easy sell but if they put the 3 original films out unaltered for $100, are you going to buy them or are you going to wait until the price drops? What about the prequels? They have all had small changes made since they came out on Blu-ray, should they fix those too? I do not doubt that at some point they will come out but I will believe it when I see it as this rumor has been going on since the dvds were first released. Besides, I thought Fox still had some control over the distribution of the first 6 films and if that is the case, I am sure Disney can not just release the original cuts.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Lucas "may have" breathed a sigh of relief? Are you kidding?

It's probably one of the main reasons he sold it all on, he was fed up with getting shit from everybody, and the difficulty he had selling Red Tails was the straw that broke the bantha's back, he was so disappointed. The 4 billion dollars also had something to do with it, yes, but I genuinely feel that Lucas had enough of the business called show and he wanted to get on with his life again.

All of the criticism Lucas received for the last 17 years was completely self-induced. When you refuse to listen to your fans, and keep doing more of exactly what you're criticized for, how is it you could wonder why your fans keep complaining and slinging shit? Lucas just never learned to sleep in the bed he kept making for himself over and over. He just kept trying to ram that square peg into that round hole. I gotta say, I respect the integrity, but you can't expect people to just submit to your will after disappointing them so consistently. So he cashed out. That's the one decision Lucas has made in the last decade and a half that I can respect.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

All of the criticism Lucas received for the last 17 years was completely self-induced. When you refuse to listen to your fans, and keep doing more of exactly what you're criticized for, how is it you could wonder why your fans keep complaining and slinging shit? Lucas just never learned to sleep in the bed he kept making for himself over and over. He just kept trying to ram that square peg into that round hole. I gotta say, I respect the integrity, but you can't expect people to just submit to your will after disappointing them so consistently. So he cashed out. That's the one decision Lucas has made in the last decade and a half that I can respect.

^
This!

[jlk5844]

People who have bought the Star Wars Complete Saga Blu-ray set or the two individual trilogy sets (something people seem to be leaving out) would (most anyway) rebuy a release of the UOT. Star Wars is huge guys. One of the biggest fan bases out there. SW fans are nuts. Even the ones who aren't (myself included) would spring for the UOT. They're films that changed cinema.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

All of the criticism Lucas received for the last 17 years was completely self-induced. When you refuse to listen to your fans, and keep doing more of exactly what you're criticized for, how is it you could wonder why your fans keep complaining and slinging shit? Lucas just never learned to sleep in the bed he kept making for himself over and over. He just kept trying to ram that square peg into that round hole. I gotta say, I respect the integrity, but you can't expect people to just submit to your will after disappointing them so consistently. So he cashed out. That's the one decision Lucas has made in the last decade and a half that I can respect.

It's simple as this - fans don't have a say in anything regarding content. If they don't like what's going on with a series or franchise, then they can stop paying to watch the movies. Obviously, they didn't. Lucas or any filmmaker should absolutely never listen to fans, most of whom have absolutely terrible ideas about creative decisions. Just because you bought a ticket, doesn't mean you "own" the film, it just means you can sit there and watch another persons art. Same if you buy a disc or a digital copy - it's just a copy of the film that you can watch. You don't "own" the film. You can certainly have an opinion about it and criticize it, but that's where it ends. These pedantic fanboys who bitch and moan all the time just need to grow up and either let it go or be an adult about it and realize that your are just an audience member, nothing more. If you want to be creative, by all means. Man up. Write a Star Wars book or draw a comic or create your own art in whatever medium suits you. Until you reach the level of Lucas. Until you are a truly creative and imaginative individual, your perspective on the situation is severely lacking.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by jlk5844

People who have bought the Star Wars Complete Saga Blu-ray set or the two individual trilogy sets (something people seem to be leaving out) would (most anyway) rebuy a release of the UOT. Star Wars is huge guys. One of the biggest fan bases out there. SW fans are nuts. Even the ones who aren't (myself included) would spring for the UOT. They're films that changed cinema.

I'm a living example of that.