Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by thebard

Yet.

[The Fallen Deity]

Lucas was making up and changing the story as he went along.

He had no grand master plan until A New Hope became a huge box office success.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So if Han was a cold blooded killer by shooting Greedo (who was pointing a gun at him) first then does that make Indiana Jones a cold blooded killer for shooting the dude with the swords in Raiders Of The Lost Ark?

Absolutely not. The dude with the swords in Raiders communicated with body language that he was going to use those swords on Jones. No different than someone pointing a gun at you in a menacing way. You're reasonably permitted to defend yourself.

But that wasn't the case in Star Wars. Wasn't Greedo's gun under the table and unseen to Han? I'm an "anti-violence" kind of guy, but in spite of my comment, this scene never bothered me in the original Star Wars. I just figured that Han knew that Greedo had the gun and fired in self defense. We've seen scenes like that in hundreds, if not thousands of other films where we never blamed the hero for shooting first. There was no reason for Lucas to have changed this. There's certainly many other times throughout the series where Han and the others fire randomly at any troops who come their way.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Absolutely not. The dude with the swords in Raiders communicated with body language that he was going to use those swords on Jones. No different than someone pointing a gun at you in a menacing way. You're reasonably permitted to defend yourself.

But that wasn't the case in Star Wars. Wasn't Greedo's gun under the table and unseen to Han? I'm an "anti-violence" kind of guy, but in spite of my comment, this scene never bothered me in the original Star Wars. I just figured that Han knew that Greedo had the gun and fired in self defense. We've seen scenes like that in hundreds, if not thousands of other films where we never blamed the hero for shooting first. There was no reason for Lucas to have changed this. There's certainly many other times throughout the series where Han and the others fire randomly at any troops who come their way.

Han always struck me as a shoot first, ask questions later type of guy.

In the Theatrical Cut he killed Greedo in self-defence and also because he probably hated his guts as well.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Absolutely not. The dude with the swords in Raiders communicated with body language that he was going to use those swords on Jones. No different than someone pointing a gun at you in a menacing way. You're reasonably permitted to defend yourself.

But that wasn't the case in Star Wars. Wasn't Greedo's gun under the table and unseen to Han? I'm an "anti-violence" kind of guy, but in spite of my comment, this scene never bothered me in the original Star Wars. I just figured that Han knew that Greedo had the gun and fired in self defense. We've seen scenes like that in hundreds, if not thousands of other films where we never blamed the hero for shooting first. There was no reason for Lucas to have changed this. There's certainly many other times throughout the series where Han and the others fire randomly at any troops who come their way.

He fired at Vader in Empire, and Vader was unarmed!

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by thebard

He fired at Vader in Empire, and Vader was unarmed!

In fairness Han knew how evil Vader was.

I think most people would've shot at him.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

In fairness Han knew how evil Vader was.

I think most people would've shot at him.

Vader had the table set! He was just inviting them to dinner!

(Cut to Robot Chicken shot of Vader struggling with a sippy straw... )

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by thebard

Vader had the table set! He was just inviting them to dinner!

(Cut to Robot Chicken shot of Vader struggling with a sippy straw... )

[thebard]

Dinner With Vader | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim - YouTube

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by thebard

Dinner With Vader | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim - YouTube

When I went to click on the link the first thing that came up before the video started was a condom advert.

ff19cb68a995fe85c3b962fc32690aa59827a6158b202a70ae44383fa7be5cd8.jpg

[thebard]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

When I went to click on the link the first thing that came up before the video started was a condom advert.

Is that a lightsaber in your pocket, or...

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by thebard

Is that a lightsaber in your pocket, or...

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by thebard

He fired at Vader in Empire, and Vader was unarmed!

Whoa, whoa whoa... Let's not bring disabilities into this...

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

But that wasn't the case in Star Wars. Wasn't Greedo's gun under the table and unseen to Han?

Nope, I'm pretty sure Greedo has his gun on Han then entire conversation, it even starts off with "oona toonta, Solo?" and Greedo's pointing his gun right at Han from the start.

The whole "Greedo shooting first" thing is such a mess. The problem is, even if George Lucas made that change to make Han look "less bad" by making Greedo shoot at all, Han still kills Greedo in cold blood. His shot isn't a reactionary "oh crap, Greedo just shot me, so now I'll shoot him in self defense", it's still "this guy's an ass**** and I'm going to kill him"... it just makes Greedo look less competent because he missed someone at point blank range

[JayFank]

Originally Posted by thebard

In ROTS, Yoda told Obi Wan that Qui Gon had come to him after death with the knowledge of becoming one with the Force.
It could be implied that the Emperor taught Vader, assuming he kept his word that he would do so, and that he did indeed learn it from Plagueis.

ah, prequels are garbage. didn't exist to me.

[bladerunner1]

Punk walked up to Han with a gun on him, talking chit, threatening Han. It was self defense the end.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by bladerunner1

punk walked up to han with a gun on him, talking chit, threatening han. It was self defense the end.

673182b774103c7d7867085338c579c7f64c3c1bbc9615a67724a131738566cd.jpg

[Hypnosifl]

Greedo kind of waffled on whether he was planning to take Han dead or alive:

Han Solo: Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?
Greedo: You can tell that to Jabba. At best, he may only take your ship.
Han Solo: Over my dead body!
Greedo: That's the idea... I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

If Greedo was just planning to kill Han and bring the body to Jabba, I don't see how even Lucas can say it was wrong for Han to shoot him before he got the chance.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

If Greedo was just planning to kill Han and bring the body to Jabba, I don't see how even Lucas can say it was wrong for Han to shoot him before he got the chance.

If some hired goon pointed a gun at you and was planning to take you by force to the intergalactic equivalent of The Godfather, I think that deadly force would be warranted to escape from that predicament.

Of course the SEs ruined that scenario on another level (on top of having Greedo shooting first) as Han now ends up having to see Jabba in the next scene anyhow...

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by thebard

Vader had the table set! He was just inviting them to dinner!

(Cut to Robot Chicken shot of Vader struggling with a sippy straw... )

Yep, there went Han shooting first again!