Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

George Lucas reminds me of the once great Robert "Bob" Ludwig. There was a time when his initials in an LP's wax meant you were getting the best there was. In the early 90's, he was railing against the emerging process of "brickwalling" sound by removing all dynamic range.

A decade or two later, the very worst sounding brickwalled-to-the-max CDs keep coming out with Bob Ludwig's name all over them. When asked why his "remaster" of Nirvana's Nevermind went against everything he used to say was important, his only reply was, "The people who cut my check were happy."

Lucas doesn't even have that excuse, since he cuts his own checks.

George's story is a classic one. He became what he fought so hard against when he was young. He became for lack of a better term "a studio executive"

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by svenge

Your cavalier attitude towards the SE changes to an historically-important film trilogy indicate otherwise, as stated below.
Oh really?

So it's an excuse to do the same?


If anyone actually bothers to go back to my old quotes, the majority of them are from 2009-2011. The "newest" is over 2 years ago. I'd like to think I've grown up since then. Sure I've had lapses, my politically incorrect sense of humor gets the best of me sometimes, but by in large I like keeping things civil. Been put in time out by the mods (as many of us have). It's not worth it.


Disagree with the message, don't attack the messenger.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I don't see the teeth gnashing over films like Amadeus, The Last of the Mohicans, Hellboy, Troy, The Patriot, Heat, Zodiac, and numerous other films (especially comedies like Dodgeball, Harold & Kumar 1 & 2, Superbad, Tropic Thunder, etc.) only available on Blu-ray in editions altered from their theatrical release. Granted none have the success and following of STAR WARS but Amadeus on disc is *not* the film that won Best Picture in March of 1985. But no, Lucas is the devil and he's the only one who does this.

Yes, the changes to Star Wars have generated more attention than the changes to Donnie Brasco.

What's your point?

(ftr, many people - myself definitely included - are very happy that Mill Creek is releasing the theatrical cut of Donnie Brasco next week)

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I don't see the teeth gnashing over films like Amadeus ... Amadeus on disc is *not* the film that won Best Picture in March of 1985. But no, Lucas is the devil and he's the only one who does this.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Star Wars didn't win Best Picture. Amadeus is arguably more "artistic" as well. But apparently Milos Forman prefers that cut so we're stuck with it. I have a flipper DVD of the original cut and doubt it will be supplanted anytime soon. It's a fair comparison to anyone schooled in film.

I would agree with you if all Lucas did was to add scenes that were filmed in 1977 but cut for time or for technical reasons like the Jabba scene and the Biggs/Luke reunion scene. Whereas Forman simply restored his original longer, pre-release cut for DVD and Blu-ray (13 scenes were restored and 2 were slightly altered), Lucas revisited and reevaluated his film two decades after the fact and heavily overhauled it -- even going so far as to shoot new film. He didn't just restore what he'd done in 1977 or put excised scenes back in, he "modernized" it (some less charitable would probably say he defaced it). For instance, Foreman didn't add digital matte paintings or digital extras to expand the period scope or soften the Mozart or Salieri characters or remove violence from his film. It's still the work of the original 1984 filmmaker.

So, while it might seem on the surface as if the two films are in similar predicaments (ultimately each film's theatrical cuts are not currently on Blu-ray, that's true), they're actually apples and oranges. It's the specific manner in which the films got to where they are now. Completely different approaches. That may be one reason why there's no gnashing of teeth.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

That may be one reason why there's no gnashing of teeth.

There's less gnashing of teeth. Believe it or not I actually work with a guy who will go on a ten minute jag if the BD cut of Amadeus comes up. Same with The Last of the Mohicans, actually.

[Deathbymonkeys]

I would be super pissed if I had to buy the originals in 4k instead of the special editions. As I think they are far superior. However I do hope they do a box set with BOTH versions so people can finally shut up.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by bongozoid

I've never understood this argument, but it seems to be the one people have been making for what, 15 year now?

George Lucas didn't direct episodes 5 and 6. He is basically the studio that owns the rights to them. So what he is doing is no different to, say, Ted Turner colorizing Casablanca. And wasn't that something that outraged George Lucas?

You might have an argument if Lucas hadn't wrote the first drafts of the scripts, working closely with Kasdan and the others writers, the art department, ILM, editing, etc. and in general being a very hands-on producer working closely with all departments, shooting a lot of Jedi with no credit, etc. These are his films, his stories. Of course, being a filmmaker he needed many others to help. Kershner and Marquand were two of those people. They were directors for hire, there for day to day business because, especially on Empire, Lucas was trying to manage so much to get these movies made that he couldn't physically be on-set everyday to direct. With Jedi, I always got the sense that he wished he had just directed as ILM was fully functioning by then and required less guidance and so on. He practically did direct a great deal of Jedi anyway since Marquand was unfamiliar with effects and action.

So yeah, there's no question that these are Lucas' movies through and through.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by deathbymonkeys

i do hope they do a box set with both versions so people can finally shut up.

+1 :d

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

So yeah, there's no question that these are Lucas' movies through and through.

The big stack of money is his. The movies are not.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

You might have an argument if Lucas hadn't wrote the first drafts of the scripts, working closely with Kasdan and the others writers, the art department, ILM, editing, etc. and in general being a very hands-on producer working closely with all departments, shooting a lot of Jedi with no credit, etc. These are his films, his stories. Of course, being a filmmaker he needed many others to help. Kershner and Marquand were two of those people. They were directors for hire, there for day to day business because, especially on Empire, Lucas was trying to manage so much to get these movies made that he couldn't physically be on-set everyday to direct. With Jedi, I always got the sense that he wished he had just directed as ILM was fully functioning by then and required less guidance and so on. He practically did direct a great deal of Jedi anyway since Marquand was unfamiliar with effects and action.

So yeah, there's no question that these are Lucas' movies through and through.

Yep, although there's more of Kersh in Empire than Lucas may have liked.

It's funny how people don't think of, say, Buffy The Vampire Slayer as being anything but Joss Whedon's show, his 'art' if you will, yet he didn't direct everything. He broke the stories, he wrote scripts and re-wrote those done by others, he appraised everything to do with the look and feel of the show, he even directed a few episodes. The other day-to-day directors were mere facilitators, there to do their master's bidding. Does any of that sound familiar? It should do, because that's EXACTLY what Lucas did with the original Star Wars series. Yet now it's not his 'art'? Pfffft. The collective myopia of the Lucas haters is quite astonishing, and for some reason it seems to be getting worse. Hell, there's a new breed of fanboy in town: the Lucas denier.

I'm not an apologist nor a hater, I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. Lucas is not the man he once was - like the young turk who delivered three American classics in the form of THX-1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars, or even the innovator who dragged cinema into the digital age single-handed - and many of his post-97 creative decisions show an appalling lack of judgement and are evidence of his increasingly insular filmmaking attitude.

But consider this: if we start airbrushing his achievements from history, saying that Star Wars magically appeared out of the ether and he had nothing whatsoever to do with it, then are we not as bad as Lucas and his suppression of the original editions of Star Wars? Hypocrisy, thy name is the internet.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by octagon

The big stack of money is his. The movies are not.

The big stack of money is his because the movies are his.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, although there's more of Kersh in Empire than Lucas may have liked.

That's true, due to the fact that he was on set less than on Jedi. But I think Kersh was a stronger director than Marquand overall, especially with the actors. Kersh was Lucas teacher in film school, so I think Lucas had enormous respect and confidence in him and still does.

It's funny how people don't think of, say, Buffy The Vampire Slayer as being anything but Joss Whedon's show, his 'art' if you will, yet he didn't direct everything. He broke the stories, he wrote scripts and re-wrote those done by others, he appraised everything to do with the look and feel of the show, he even directed a few episodes. The other day-to-day directors were mere facilitators, there to do their master's bidding. Does any of that sound familiar? It should do, because that's EXACTLY what Lucas did with the original Star Wars series. Yet now it's not his 'art'? Pfffft. The collective myopia of the Lucas haters is quite astonishing, and for some reason it seems to be getting worse. Hell, there's a new breed of fanboy in town: the Lucas denier.

But consider this: if we start airbrushing his achievements from history, saying that Star Wars magically appeared out of the ether and he had nothing whatsoever to do with it, then are we not as bad as Lucas and his suppression of the original editions of Star Wars? Hypocrisy, thy name is the internet.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Originally Posted by Deathbymonkeys

I would be super pissed if I had to buy the originals in 4k instead of the special editions. As I think they are far superior. However I do hope they do a box set with BOTH versions so people can finally shut up.

There's no valid reason not to do both versions if they're going through the trouble of a 4K restoration. I just hope that if they go that route, they give us the GOUT and the 2004 SE's since the 2011 changes are awful and pointless. As much as I dislike the SE's, at least the 2004 changes made sense in that it made the OT connect to the prequels better.

As far as extras in the new set, I'd like the Empire of Dreams doc upgraded to HD and include the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special, which should have been on the extras disc 3 of the current complete saga bd set.

[The Fallen Deity]

For all we know this new restoration might be for both the SE's & the TC's.

Only time will tell.

But in the mean time everybody:

tumblr_mbtmxfZ2Rt1qb5017o1_500.jpg

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

For all we know this new restoration might be for both the SE's & the TC's.

Only time will tell.

But in the mean time everybody:

Attachment 90484

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

The big stack of money is his because the movies are his.

I know this isn't the Episode VII thread but surely everybody in here has heard about the Disney deal.

Haven't you?

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by octagon

I know this isn't the Episode VII thread but surely everybody in here has heard about the Disney deal.

Haven't you?

And yet they're using his story outline for the new trilogy and of course he is acting as a consultant. I think it's cute that some "fans" (I use that term loosely) want to discount Lucas' involvement in Star Wars and it's success. It's so pathetic.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

And yet they're using his story outline for the new trilogy and of course he is acting as a consultant. I think it's cute that some "fans" (I use that term loosely) want to discount Lucas' involvement in Star Wars and it's success. It's so pathetic.

Forty or so years ago Lucas was a very good writer, director and executive producer. American Graffiti and Star Wars were truly exceptional films that were both very well written and very well directed. And while he remained a very good executive producer right up until his recent retirement it's more than fair to say he peaked as both a writer and director with Star Wars.

[Elvis]

And Gary Kurtz was just as important to the success of the first two films as Lucas. Lucas had to be reigned in several times by Kurtz! Just look how Jedi turned out without Kurtz! Sorry but Lucas is WAY WAY overrated when it comes to credit. People like Marcia his ex wife do not get enough credit especially for that academy winning editing job. It's so pathetic!

[Geoff D]

Gimme a break. Kurtz was a lax producer whose failure to control the overruns on Empire nearly cost Lucas the ownership of the film and the franchise. Carrie Fisher said the dude stood around taking photographs all day, there's your 'hands on' producer. Man, I gotta keep away from dat Kurtz Kool-Aid™.

And how exactly is receiving the Academy Award for Best Editing not giving someone enough credit? Even for a Star Wars thread, that's some fresh bullshit right there. Marcia Lucas divorced George and got on with her life, if she'd carried on in the biz then I'm sure we'd have heard a lot more about her prior exploits. She was also one of the editors on Jedi, BTW, so even with her incredibly amazing Academy Award winning talent she wasn't able to pull that one out of the fire...