Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by happydood

Say whaaaaaaat?!

The prequels have many problems but Christopher Lee wasn't one of them. In fact, he should be in EVERY movie by everybody from here on out.

I'm in agreement with the other guy. Lee wasn't bad, but Count Dooku had absolutely no character development whatsoever. He shows up in the last 40 minutes of AotC and is killed 20 minutes into RotS. There is a problem if you have to rely on the side material to actually like a character.

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

They retconned Boba's death in the sarlacc pit as well in the expanded universe novels/comics, he crawled himself out of it and almost killed it. I'll be interested in seeing if they go with that in the films or just leave it be. I think part of Boba's appeal is that he's got a cool costume and a jetpack.

I don't agree with this at all. If it wasn't shown or explained in the movie, it didn't happen.

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

They retconned Boba's death in the sarlacc pit as well in the expanded universe novels/comics, he crawled himself out of it and almost killed it. I'll be interested in seeing if they go with that in the films or just leave it be. I think part of Boba's appeal is that he's got a cool costume and a jetpack.

None of the EU is canon so that's not retconned, it fiction for a fictional character. And even if he isnt dead in a new film it still showed how inept he really is compared to you or me, much less Darth Maul.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

For me, the problem with the PT was that it never showed anything positive of the Jedi. From the very first of TPM, with the possible exception of Qui-Gon, they were a moribund mob, disapproving to the point of prissiness, isolated and aloof from the regular folk around them. We weren't shown any positive values that the Jedi brought to the galaxy.

I know, to some degree that was because the trilogy was about the fall of the Jedi, but it raised two significant problems that were never addressed: the Jedi didn't need Anakin (or Dooku or whomever) to bring them down, because they'd already done that to themselves; and we were given no reason to cheer for the Jedi, because they were all so bloody unlikeable. So the movies kept telling us we were supposed to feel a sense of tragedy, but actually gave us no reason to.

Will the new trilogy be able to fix that? I doubt it; it's too broken. But it will still need to do something with the whole question of the Jedi. If it has even a substantial proportion of its characters running round a-Jediing, because .. ya know, Empire Bad, Jedi Good ... then it seriously needs to work out what actually constitutes being a Jedi. If we're to cheer for Luke, or care about him, then the films have to answer the question: What do Jedis actually do, believe and think that's different from the average pleb? If the answer, and the way it's depicted, are lame, then to my mind that has the potential to rip the guts out of the existing six stories.

That's a good point. The Jedi are dicks in the prequels and (as an organisation) are non-existent in the originals, so it may well be left to the new movies to put the record straight about them, which could either illuminate a great many things and give us a greater understanding (like Clone Wars S6 in relation to Eps II and III) or it might undermine the whole thing.

Still, it might go in a different direction anyway. With Luke as the presumed head of any new Jedi Order, his teachings will be very different from that of his predecessors because he was able to embrace his feelings, not shun them and lock them away like Anakin was told to. So the new movies may well concentrate on this new order instead of getting too involved in trying to explain away the old one.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

For me, the problem with the PT was that it never showed anything positive of the Jedi. From the very first of TPM, with the possible exception of Qui-Gon, they were a moribund mob, disapproving to the point of prissiness, isolated and aloof from the regular folk around them. We weren't shown any positive values that the Jedi brought to the galaxy.

I know, to some degree that was because the trilogy was about the fall of the Jedi, but it raised two significant problems that were never addressed: the Jedi didn't need Anakin (or Dooku or whomever) to bring them down, because they'd already done that to themselves; and we were given no reason to cheer for the Jedi, because they were all so bloody unlikeable. So the movies kept telling us we were supposed to feel a sense of tragedy, but actually gave us no reason to.

.

This was really the point of the Prequels as far as the Jedi were concerned. They had become so disassociated with reality that they were easy prey for Palpatine. Making them soldiers in a civil war was the last step in their downfall. It wasn't so much Anakin directly, but how the Jedi treated Anakin and others that ultimately led to their near extinction.

However, I never found them unlikeable at all, quite the contrary. Which is why their downfall was that much more emotional.

[Elvis]

One of the problems is that the OT built them up to be something rather special and then we see with that wonderful thought out "order 66" they were nothing of the kind.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

plus he's supposed to play an emotionless jedi. thats why he acts so "wooden"

Maybe that's sarcasm and my detector is not working this morning, but while Anakin was supposed to 'be' a Jedi and the Jedi are supposed to control their emotions or keep them buried, Anakin's character was anything but emotionless. He was constantly filled with emotions of almost every kind (one could argue he was a manic-depressive), which is what led to his downfall, no? Isn't that what his story was all about in virtually every regard?

In that regard, I think the oft-criticized Christensen actually did a good job, at least when he was trying to portray a sense of entitlement or anger. But doesn't every 20-something year old think they know far more than their parents, bosses and other elders around them?

Mark Twain once wrote, "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Christensen did a far worse job when he was trying to express love, but one could definitely argue that either the poor writing did him in or even that that's how a virgin who had never been in love before would express such emotions: sloppily. While some of the dialog was indeed awful beyond belief and the scene where they're rolling in the grass had all the authenticity of a porno flick or an adult diapers commercial, I've always thought Christensen and Portman have been over-criticized.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

I think part of Boba's appeal is that he's got a cool costume and a jetpack.

As a Fett fan, yeah pretty much.

Also a badass voice, or at least used to.

[Gold Ranger]

Cargo Pants are NOT a good Costume

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by Elvis

One of the problems is that the OT built them up to be something rather special and then we see with that wonderful thought out "order 66" they were nothing of the kind.

Their badassness at least carried over -IMO- to the opening of PM: things were so grave they had to send TWO Jedi and as soon as they foiled the attack and were several levels below the bridge the commander basically said "we're ****ed!"

After that, meh. I always thought the pacing was a bit off in the prequels. "Order 66" should have been the third film that features Darth Vader hunting down and destroying the last of the Jedi Knights, only to be defeated and maimed by Kenobi then. Vader had little to do with killing any Jedi as described in Star Wars, just the younglings. You could take advantage of the fact that the sequels already out and features a brighter conclusion to what would certainly be a depressing film, it could have been pulled off though.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm ambivalent about Leia being a Jedi. One of people's chief complaints about the prequels is seeing all those Jedi because it devalues the lightsaber and ruins the mystique of the OT, and while I don't entirely agree with that (I loved seeing the Jedi go to war, which was actually mentioned in the OT) I don't want to see everyone in the new movies wielding a laser sword. If they wanna recapture the spirit of the OT then we can't have everyone using Force powers, and while Leia's Jedi heritage cannot be ignored I hope they don't go too far with it.

Yeah, I can't quite picture Carrie Fisher, or Leia's character, swinging a lightsaber convincingly. Prior to the prequels, a lot of people seemed to picture Yoda and Palpatine as Force users who were "above" basic combat and had a more meditative relationship with the Force. It would be interesting to see Leia in that role.

I doubt that she would become powerful enough to be "above" lightsaber combat in such a short time, but perhaps there is less need for that with the Sith destroyed and the Civil War over. She could use the Force to guide her decisions, glimpse the future, influence others, and gain the wisdom to be a great leader. My guess is that the new Jedi Order will be very different from the old, in which everybody was basically trained the same way.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Cargo Pants are NOT a good Costume

Sure, when you reduce a costume to just the pants, they're all kind of lame.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Yeah, I can't quite picture Carrie Fisher, or Leia's character, swinging a lightsaber convincingly.

This touches on another interesting issue/problem JJ et al is going to face. Mark Hamill isn't exactly at a point in his life where he can sell back-flips and ninja moves either. Duel of Fates was outstanding and while some of the subsequent duels were pretty good they did go a little overboard with the acrobatics.

The challenge for the new team is going to be walking that more frenetic dueling style back in a convincing manner. I can see Leia as a Jedi of some sort but both her and Luke will be by necessity more Alec Guinness than Ewan MacGregor.

Which is great but it could also be tricky.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Sure, when you reduce a costume to just the pants, they're all kind of lame.

Depends on who's wearing just pants

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Maybe that's sarcasm and my detector is not working this morning, but while Anakin was supposed to 'be' a Jedi and the Jedi are supposed to control their emotions or keep them buried, Anakin's character was anything but emotionless. He was constantly filled with emotions of almost every kind (one could argue he was a manic-depressive), which is what led to his downfall, no? Isn't that what his story was all about in virtually every regard?

In that regard, I think the oft-criticized Christensen actually did a good job, at least when he was trying to portray a sense of entitlement or anger. But doesn't every 20-something year old think they know far more than their parents, bosses and other elders around them?

Mark Twain once wrote, "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Christensen did a far worse job when he was trying to express love, but one could definitely argue that either the poor writing did him in or even that that's how a virgin who had never been in love before would express such emotions: sloppily. While some of the dialog was indeed awful beyond belief and the scene where they're rolling in the grass had all the authenticity of a porno flick or an adult diapers commercial, I've always thought Christensen and Portman have been over-criticized.

yeah i agree with all that. i'v never seen Christensen in any other movies so i don't know if he's a bad actor or was directed to act that way

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Yeah, I can't quite picture Carrie Fisher, or Leia's character, swinging a lightsaber convincingly. Prior to the prequels, a lot of people seemed to picture Yoda and Palpatine as Force users who were "above" basic combat and had a more meditative relationship with the Force. It would be interesting to see Leia in that role.

I doubt that she would become powerful enough to be "above" lightsaber combat in such a short time, but perhaps there is less need for that with the Sith destroyed and the Civil War over. She could use the Force to guide her decisions, glimpse the future, influence others, and gain the wisdom to be a great leader. My guess is that the new Jedi Order will be very different from the old, in which everybody was basically trained the same way.

If I were a betting man, I think Leia is going to be more of a Force seer. In Jedi she has memories of her mother which will be explained that she has a gift for seeing the past....she won't be swinging a lightsaber but I can completely see her using her Force abilities to see the past, searching for answers.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

yeah i agree with all that. i'v never seen Christensen in any other movies so i don't know if he's a bad actor or was directed to act that way

He was good in Shattered Glass and Life as a House. But, then again, that was the character.

[HeavyHitter]

I watched The Phantom Menace projected tonight (on a 2:35 screen at equivalently 124") and the DNR really wiped out a lot of detail giving a fairly disappointing image - too soft and filtered looking. There's also a bit of edge enhancement than can be seen in some scenes. The color, shadow, and contrast seemed fine at least. I realize they may have tried to make this look like the digitally filmed Ep. II and III, but it wasn't done exquisitely. Did Lucasflm do this transfer?

[BenjaminG]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Did Lucasflm do this transfer?

HTV Illuminate.

[Falaskan]

Pretty sure Carrie will be swinging a lighstsaber in the new movies, sorry to disappoint you all. I think the outcry would be greater if she didn't.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Pretty sure Carrie will be swinging a lighstsaber in the new movies, sorry to disappoint you all. I think the outcry would be greater if she didn't.

I dont think she does at all.