Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Same people who argue that the Decepticons are a noble minority oppressed by fascist Autobots.

Nope, Decepticons are evil

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Nope, Decepticons are evil

So is the Sith.

(And I'm serious: there really are people out there convinced Decepticons are the good guys.)

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

And I'm serious: there really are people out there convinced Decepticons are the good guys.

thought you were joking!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

When some people start defending the Galactic Empire, something's gone seriously wrong. Either the movies themselves, or their understanding of them.

Here's the fairly ironic thing though...one of the biggest missed opportunities of the prequels might have been that they didn't play the moral ambiguity card hard enough.

One of the best scenes of the PT was Anakin's 'and you're starting to sound like a separatist' dialogue with Padme. There they touched on the idea that somebody like Anakin could be seduced by the quick and easy appeal of peace through strength and oppression.

Sure, the Sith should remain the Black Hats and the Dark Side should remain, well, dark but Anakin's fall could have worked a lot better if there was a genuine moral dilemma between good and evil. Not only could that have been a better story, it could have also worked as a 'freedom v security' morality play the likes of which we've seen throughout history.

It's an interesting question with all sorts of dramatic possibilities.

Instead they decided to have him turn on the Jedi and slaughter younglings for primarily selfish reasons and he wound up coming off as a short-sighted, venal douche.

He did look good in black though, so there was that at least.

[Gold Ranger]

Anakin: "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"
Obi-Wan: "What are you talking about? What point of view? I saw you yesterday! How did the Jedi become evil overnight?"

[SymbioticFunction]

Governor Tarkin: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

General Tagge: But that's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Palpatine was democratically voted emergency powers and that government was lawful in it's initial creation, but the Senate didn't realise that they would be completely disbanded, and that all of their home planets would subsequently be under threat of complete obliteration by a giant death machine. Alderaan was completely destroyed for mere demonstration purposes. Absolutely no-one would like to live under a reign of terror like that, dictatorship or not. Therefore it's actually quite easy to label the Galactic Empire as straightforward "bad guys" and a classic cinematic representation of pure evil.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

Governor Tarkin: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away forever.

General Tagge: But that's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Palpatine was democratically voted emergency powers and that government was lawful in it's initial creation, but the Senate didn't realise that they would be completely disbanded, and that all of their home planets would subsequently be under threat of complete obliteration by a giant death machine. Alderaan was completely destroyed for mere demonstration purposes. Absolutely no-one would like to live under a reign of terror like that, dictatorship or not. Therefore it's actually quite easy to label the Galactic Empire as straightforward "bad guys" and a classic cinematic representation of pure evil.

Almost. Leave out the word forever.

[SymbioticFunction]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Almost. Leave out the word forever.

lol Thanks (goes to edit post).

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

lol Thanks (goes to edit post).

No problem. I could quote all three of the original movies to you from memory.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No problem. I could quote all three of the original movies to you from memory.

I can do that, but all six. and the TMNT trilogy and The Lost Boys and The Terminator along with T2 and ID4.Also the Back to the Future Trilogy.
Well, at least I could have, before all this medication addled my mind.
For a better understanding, Season 2's depiction of Fitz (Agents of SHIELD) is how I have been for about a year and a half now.

[SymbioticFunction]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

yeah plus Palpatine was legally given power. anywhere else where an organized group tries to overthrow a legally elected government by means of violence, that group is considered to be terrorists. i'm really not sure why the rebels even rebelled.

For starters, perhaps people were unimpressed with the Sith lord's indiscriminate murders of any member of the Jedi Knight organisation (children included). Adolf Hitler was "legally given power" but it didn't excuse his persecution and extermination of any peoples that he regarded as inferior or a threat, or his imposition of dangerous nazi ideology on other countries.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

For starters, perhaps people were unimpressed with the Sith lord's indiscriminate murders of any member of the Jedi Knight organisation (children included). Adolf Hitler was "legally given power" but it didn't excuse his persecution and extermination of any peoples that he regarded as inferior or a threat, or his imposition of dangerous nazi ideology on other countries.

Actually, in his own twisted way, he felt he was getting revenge upon the Jewish for how they treated the Germans for thousands of years.
I'm not excusing what he did, but just showing that there are two sides to everything.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by octagon

Here's the fairly ironic thing though...one of the biggest missed opportunities of the prequels might have been that they didn't play the moral ambiguity card hard enough.

One of the best scenes of the PT was Anakin's 'and you're starting to sound like a separatist' dialogue with Padme. There they touched on the idea that somebody like Anakin could be seduced by the quick and easy appeal of peace through strength and oppression.

Sure, the Sith should remain the Black Hats and the Dark Side should remain, well, dark but Anakin's fall could have worked a lot better if there was a genuine moral dilemma between good and evil. Not only could that have been a better story, it could have also worked as a 'freedom v security' morality play the likes of which we've seen throughout history.

It's an interesting question with all sorts of dramatic possibilities.

Instead they decided to have him turn on the Jedi and slaughter younglings for primarily selfish reasons and he wound up coming off as a short-sighted, venal douche.

He did look good in black though, so there was that at least.

I actually agree. I think that having Anakin relate to the Sepratists and seeing that they had valid points would have been a better 'turn' for him than Padme dying. It would have added more to his character and the series as a whole.

[rickah88]

Aaaaand Godwin's Law strikes again!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Aaaaand Godwin's Law strikes again!

???

[chip75]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

???

It is said that every thread or forum discussion will eventually mention you know who. He's popped up a few times (52 times!) in this thread already!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by chip75

It is said that every thread or forum discussion will eventually mention you know who. He's popped up a few times in this thread already!

Voldemort?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Aaaaand Godwin's Law strikes again!

Not really.

Godwin's Law has more to do inappropriate/hyperbolic Hitler comparisons or Nazi analogies.

A Hitler mention or two in a conversation about a dictator seizing power doesn't seem all that out of place.

[rickah88]

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Is he laughing or crying?
I can never tell.