Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[HarcourtMudd]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Just get rid the Jabba scene entirely. The whole reason the Greedo scene exists is to convey the exact same information as the Jabba scene and serve as coverage in case the latter didn't work out technically. They're redundant but you can't cut Greedo's confrontation with Han because it's one of the film's iconic scenes. In comparison the Jabba scene isn't, and because of the physical and visual restrictions from the live action shoot it's just never going to work right without looking awkward no matter how many times they try to fix it. In the end it's just a 1995 tech demo they shoehorned into the movie.

Absolutely. The first time we see the Falcon should be to the words, "What a piece of junk!" That, in itself, is iconic.

[welcometothepartypal]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Just get rid the Jabba scene entirely. The whole reason the Greedo scene exists is to convey the exact same information as the Jabba scene and serve as coverage in case the latter didn't work out technically. They're redundant but you can't cut Greedo's confrontation with Han because it's one of the film's iconic scenes. In comparison the Jabba scene isn't, and because of the physical and visual restrictions from the live action shoot it's just never going to work right without looking awkward no matter how many times they try to fix it. In the end it's just a 1995 tech demo they shoehorned into the movie.

Agreed! It's too bad kids today can't see Jabba like a bunch of us did back in the day. I was 9 and obsessed with STAR WARS and EMPIRE, when I sat in that theater on the opening weekend of ROTJ and they "revealed" Jabba, the whole audience was blown away.

The inserted scene in A NEW HOPE takes all the fun out of that moment in RETURN, and it's not even a good scene.

The limitations they had back then was the way it was meant to be and that's why the UOT is so beloved.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by welcometothepartypal

Agreed! It's too bad kids today can't see Jabba like a bunch of us did back in the day. I was 9 and obsessed with STAR WARS and EMPIRE, when I sat in that theater on the opening weekend of ROTJ and they "revealed" Jabba, the whole audience was blown away.

The inserted scene in A NEW HOPE takes all the fun out of that moment in RETURN, and it's not even a good scene.

The limitations they had back then was the way it was meant to be and that's why the UOT is so beloved.

His palace in ROTJ was dark, frightening place. I'd have probably laughed at Jabba in the Episode IV SE.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'd fix two things...eliminate Boba Fett at the end looking straight into the camera. During the Jabba/Han sequence, cut away TO Boba Fett when Han has to make that terrible "tail step" thing.

While I like Billie's idea of putting Jabba on some sort of floating platform - and with today's tech roto'ing Han and putting him where they need him would be a cinch - but that's even better Ernest, using a simple edit to cover the tail step. If you're gonna shoehorn Fett in there, then make it work for the scene instead of it being this bizarre "look fans, it's Boba Fett!" moment.

[stvn1974]

Mods work fast around here.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While I like Billie's idea of putting Jabba on some sort of floating platform - and with today's tech roto'ing Han and putting him where they need him would be a cinch - but that's even better Ernest, using a simple edit to cover the tail step. If you're gonna shoehorn Fett in there, then make it work for the scene instead of it being this bizarre "look fans, it's Boba Fett!" moment.

Yeah, I'm all old school like that.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

His palace in ROTJ was dark, frightening place. I'd have probably laughed at Jabba in the Episode IV SE.

That's why "Jedi Rocks" is one of the top 5 abominations of the SE's to me.

I actually don't mind the SE of ROTJ except for that and of course Hayden-ghost. I grit my teeth and bear Hayden since it's the end of the film, but I have the remote ready to skip Jedi Rocks.

It completely ruined the entire atmosphere of Jabba's Palace. I remember being six years old in the theater and thinking it was the creepiest, scariest place ever - and loving it. Now, it has the atmosphere of a Muppet Show sketch.

And that's precisely why it was done, which is even more disconcerting. It's indicative of the entire period from the SE's to the Prequels, in the end, the entire thing was about George Lucas the Father changing the intentions of George Lucas the original director to fit his new found (over-)sensitivity to what kids are exposed to.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by welcometothepartypal

Agreed! It's too bad kids today can't see Jabba like a bunch of us did back in the day. I was 9 and obsessed with STAR WARS and EMPIRE, when I sat in that theater on the opening weekend of ROTJ and they "revealed" Jabba, the whole audience was blown away.

The inserted scene in A NEW HOPE takes all the fun out of that moment in RETURN, and it's not even a good scene.

The limitations they had back then was the way it was meant to be and that's why the UOT is so beloved.

Exactly.
Well, i didn't see the trilogy in the theaters but on TV, but I was always wondering in the first 2 movies what Jabba looked like, and it was a big surprise in the 3rd film.

[JackKnightStarman]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That's why "Jedi Rocks" is one of the top 5 abominations of the SE's to me.

I actually don't mind the SE of ROTJ except for that and of course Hayden-ghost. I grit my teeth and bear Hayden since it's the end of the film, but I have the remote ready to skip Jedi Rocks.

It completely ruined the entire atmosphere of Jabba's Palace. I remember being six years old in the theater and thinking it was the creepiest, scariest place ever - and loving it. Now, it has the atmosphere of a Muppet Show sketch.

And that's precisely why it was done, which is even more disconcerting. It's indicative of the entire period from the SE's to the Prequels, in the end, the entire thing was about George Lucas the Father changing the intentions of George Lucas the original director to fit his new found (over-)sensitivity to what kids are exposed to.

I'm sorry, but there is material dating back to '81-82 where Uncle George says they don't have the tech do a big musical number in Jabba's palace as he intended. It was in the Doc "From Star Wars to Jedi".

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

And that's precisely why it was done, which is even more disconcerting. It's indicative of the entire period from the SE's to the Prequels, in the end, the entire thing was about George Lucas the Father changing the intentions of George Lucas the original director to fit his new found (over-)sensitivity to what kids are exposed to.

Agreed, although Lucas' newfound hyper-sensitivity started with Jedi in the first place, so it's almost fitting that it got the most blatantly kiddiefied SE addition. I don't mind the music number so much as I do the Boba Fett bits, turning him into some sort of ladies' man as he charms the backing singers. Wut?

(Still, when I think of that scene in general there's a shot from the original where Boba passes the camera and happens to look our way IIRC, which is probably why Lucas did the same thing with the new bit in Star Wars, only the latter - as always with post '97 Lucas - was much too on the nose.)

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Agreed, although Lucas' newfound hyper-sensitivity started with Jedi in the first place, so it's almost fitting that it got the most blatantly kiddiefied SE addition. I don't mind the music number so much as I do the Boba Fett bits, turning him into some sort of ladies' man as he charms the backing singers. Wut?

I think the "kiddification" of ROTJ (which is a movie I love, don't get me wrong) was more about the toys from what I read, than anything else. Lucas was concerned about kids perceptions (which is why he consulted child psychologists about the Vader reveal, etc.) but at that time he didn't seem like he needed to force feed, no pun intended, or be so heavy handed as you said as he was with the prequels.

Originally Posted by JackKnightStarman

I'm sorry, but there is material dating back to '81-82 where Uncle George says they don't have the tech do a big musical number in Jabba's palace as he intended. It was in the Doc "From Star Wars to Jedi".

Nothing to be "sorry" about. He was talking about an expanded Sy Snootles scene. If they did have the tech, it wouldn't have been the CGI Muppet Show "let's get down and silly!" number one that we ended up with in the SE.

It's not that there is a big number, but it's the tone of the number. If that tone was truly intended from the start, Jabba's Palace would have been presented much differently (Salacious would have been cute and cuddly, Leia wouldn't have been in her slave outfit much less chained to Jabba and licked, etc).

Just like the prequels completely neutered one of the greatest screen villains of all time, the ROTJ SE neutered Jabba's Palace. It's like Lucas The Father felt he had to "atone" for things that he looked at differently as a father vs. when he made the films to begin with. He was concerned about kids then, but in different ways. It was "how will kids handle this" not "how can we take away all moral ambiguity so they don't have to handle anything at all" - far different things.

To this day, 30 years later, I still get the creeps over Jabba's Palace. - it's what that sparked my love of "creepy" movies and began a fascination as a kid that persists to this day. It was a vital part of my film education. If that scene had been in the original film, I know I wouldn't have that feeling.

If that Yuzzum or whatever his name is scene had been in the original trilogy, at the end he would have gotten eaten by the Rancor.

[Geoff D]

Well, changing the Endor tree-dwellers from badass Wookiees to cuddly Ewoks was about as blatantly kiddiefied a decision as Lucas has EVER made with the Star Wars saga IMO. During the making of Jedi he said (in Dale Pollock's biography) about how uncomfortable he was with the level of violence in the first film and how his becoming a father had changed his outlook, so although the Lucas of that period wasn't all the way gone, he'd already started down the dark path and forever would it dominate his destiny...

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I actually like the 1997 SE LD (which I still have) color & gamma values.

I agree with that at least. The 97 SE LD does seem to have the right balance when it comes to colour.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, changing the Endor tree-dwellers from badass Wookiees to cuddly Ewoks was about as blatantly kiddiefied a decision as Lucas has EVER made with the Star Wars saga IMO. During the making of Jedi he said (in Dale Pollock's biography) about how uncomfortable he was with the level of violence in the first film and how his becoming a father had changed his outlook, so although the Lucas of that period wasn't all the way gone, he'd already started down the dark path and forever would it dominate his destiny...

I was always under the impression that was about money - Ewok suits were cheaper than tons of Chewy suits, LOL.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I was always under the impression that was about money - Ewok suits were cheaper than tons of Chewy suits, LOL.

Plus little people and kids are a lot easier to find than several that are 7 foot or taller.

[Hellraiserfan]

After thinking about it for awhile, I am going to buy the original untouched trilogy. A number of the changes in the special edition didn't bother me too much but some others were quite stupid and or ridiculous.

[Alls Wills]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Actually their not. The 'Special Collection' Japanese Laserdiscs which were transfers made prior to the revamped THX masters seen on the non-anamorphic DVDs which themselves were direct ports of the 1993 Definitive edition Laserdisc, are the best looking versions of the theatrical cuts available on disc IMO.

I have this release, and I love it; yay for no DNR! The red tint on other releases also drives me nuts.

[SeemslikeTrav]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

There are some parts of the special editions that I really like, and others I simply don't mind.

Actually, there are really only 2-3 new things in the entire Trilogy that I actually hate.

I know the UOT is coming later next year, presumably in 3D if the films are truly getting a 3D theatrical release.

I just hope that along with the UOT, we also get a one-and-done final Special Edition too that addresses the few things fans have hated the most (Han shoots first, artoo rocks, Hayden Force Ghost, Vader NOOOOO, maybe Jedi Rocks); fixes a few other things (fix ALL sabers, better Jabba in ANH, etc); but leaves some of the other enhancements that were actually pretty great (matte lines, CGI falcon in ANH & ESB, CGI X-wings in ANH, Wampa in ESB, etc.). With George out of the way now, maybe that's possible.

And no more Sarlacc from the Little Shop of Horrors.

[Vandal Savage]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Nothing to be "sorry" about. He was talking about an expanded Sy Snootles scene. If they did have the tech, it wouldn't have been the CGI Muppet Show "let's get down and silly!" number one that we ended up with in the SE.

Maybe, thirty years ago, George was sort of apologizing for how awful the band looked in the original movie. The puppetry wasn't very convincing. Sy Snootles was stiff and lifeless, and Max Rebo (the blue elephant-looking thing playing keyboards) looked like an inflatable pool toy.

Though I wholeheartedly agree that the musical number added to ROTJ is really awful and out of place in the movie.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

Maybe, thirty years ago, George was sort of apologizing for how awful the band looked in the original movie. The puppetry wasn't very convincing. Sy Snootles was stiff and lifeless, and Max Rebo (the blue elephant-looking thing playing keyboards) looked like an inflatable pool toy.

Though I wholeheartedly agree that the musical number added to ROTJ is really awful and out of place in the movie.

Hmm...maybe he should have just stayed away from the all the puppets/muppets. That's what some of us 18 year olds back in May of 83 thought. Another reason this was the weaker of the three.