Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Merlinpants]

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/buyingstarwars.html

Of course, the most eager studio of all was the one that had been Star Wars' home for the past twenty years, Fox. Getting the prequels would be the biggest deal of the decade, and they already were in a favorable position since they had just paid to have Star Wars restored. Glenn Lovell writes in the Dallas Morning News in January 1997, "Skeptics believe Fox invested in the restoration and re-release because it wants to stay away from Lucas' dark side and get first shot at distributing the prequels," a sentiment that was expressed by many that year. (ii) They may be right--Fox was on a mission to get distribution rights to the upcoming three films and it was going to do anything to see it happen. Fox vice president Tom Sherak says in January 1997 "Do we want to have the prequel? Of course we do-- everybody does," and goes on to state "When George gets here, we'll lock the door and won't let him out until he makes the deal." (iii)

In 1998, the film now shot, negotiations did begin. Of course, Fox probably got a low percentage, just as in 1977 for the first two sequels, but that didn't matter because the films stood to be the most popular ever made, and an enormous paycheque to Lucasfilm is also a given. But any studio would have gotten that deal, whether it was Warner or Universal. But there was one thing Fox had that no other studio could offer, and that Lucas was after. They had the original film. In April of 1998, it was announced that Fox would be the distributor of the new films.

It has never been reported, but I believe that Lucasfilm offered Fox distribution rights only if they would hand over the rights to the original Star Wars. Fox obviously agreed to this at some point--when the SE was released in 1997, the prints, posters and video boxes said that Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm but that Star Wars was copyright Fox. The next time the films were released was in 2000 on VHS, where Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm--but now Star Wars was copyright Lucasfilm as well. Its no coincidence that between that time a deal was hammered out between the two mega-corporations to give Fox distribution of Lucasfilm's prequels.

It was never announced anywhere. But, quietly, Lucasfilm was given the rights to the original film by Fox. To the studio, it must have looked like a good deal, even if it was a hard bargain--they lost their number one property but they gained theatrical and video distribution to three more properties that potentially were all going to all be more popular.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by fitprod

Yes, it does make it a new work of art, that is why re-cuts of films, including Empire and Jedi will have dual copyrights on the end of the restoration credits.

The SE of Star Wars is distinctly 1997, and the only version that Lucasfilm owns.

fitprod

I said the exact same thing and was shouted down

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

But movies are not patented as I understand it.

I do think the 1997 year is not coincidental and somehow pertains to the SE versions (and tweaks) ever since. There is something about it distinguishing it from the unaltered original 1977 version otherwise it would not be in the ending credits. What role this plays to the unaltered originals getting released, I have no idea...let alone who decides it.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I said that they were Patented.
Sorry if I confused you.
I just meant that I knew there was something dealing with a 20 year timeframe. At first I thought it was Copyright. Then I looked it up.

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

[Show spoiler]http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/buyingstarwars.html

Of course, the most eager studio of all was the one that had been Star Wars' home for the past twenty years, Fox. Getting the prequels would be the biggest deal of the decade, and they already were in a favorable position since they had just paid to have Star Wars restored. Glenn Lovell writes in the Dallas Morning News in January 1997, "Skeptics believe Fox invested in the restoration and re-release because it wants to stay away from Lucas' dark side and get first shot at distributing the prequels," a sentiment that was expressed by many that year. (ii) They may be right--Fox was on a mission to get distribution rights to the upcoming three films and it was going to do anything to see it happen. Fox vice president Tom Sherak says in January 1997 "Do we want to have the prequel? Of course we do-- everybody does," and goes on to state "When George gets here, we'll lock the door and won't let him out until he makes the deal." (iii)

In 1998, the film now shot, negotiations did begin. Of course, Fox probably got a low percentage, just as in 1977 for the first two sequels, but that didn't matter because the films stood to be the most popular ever made, and an enormous paycheque to Lucasfilm is also a given. But any studio would have gotten that deal, whether it was Warner or Universal. But there was one thing Fox had that no other studio could offer, and that Lucas was after. They had the original film. In April of 1998, it was announced that Fox would be the distributor of the new films.

It has never been reported, but I believe that Lucasfilm offered Fox distribution rights only if they would hand over the rights to the original Star Wars. Fox obviously agreed to this at some point--when the SE was released in 1997, the prints, posters and video boxes said that Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm but that Star Wars was copyright Fox. The next time the films were released was in 2000 on VHS, where Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm--but now Star Wars was copyright Lucasfilm as well.Its no coincidence that between that time a deal was hammered out between the two mega-corporations to give Fox distribution of Lucasfilm's prequels.

It was never announced anywhere. But, quietly, Lucasfilm was given the rights to the original film by Fox. To the studio, it must have looked like a good deal, even if it was a hard bargain--they lost their number one property but they gained theatrical and video distribution to three more properties that potentially were all going to all be more popular.

That is what I said earlier.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

If this happens, I still see the San Diego Comic Con (July) being the announcement and then pre-orders...October or November release perhaps...after the IMAX viewings in September.

It might be announced at the Star Wars Celebration in April.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

It has never been reported, but I believe that Lucasfilm offered Fox distribution rights only if they would hand over the rights to the original Star Wars. Fox obviously agreed to this at some point--when the SE was released in 1997, the prints, posters and video boxes said that Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm but that Star Wars was copyright Fox. The next time the films were released was in 2000 on VHS, where Empire and Jedi were copyright Lucasfilm--but now Star Wars was copyright Lucasfilm as well. Its no coincidence that between that time a deal was hammered out between the two mega-corporations to give Fox distribution of Lucasfilm's prequels.

I wish this forum had that feature where you could pin something to the top of every single page of every thread - because if it did, I would be voting for this to be there. If someone were a real masochist they could spend endless hours going back through this thread and counting how many times I and others have mentioned it, and I have a feeling it would easily be in the 100's, LOL.

This is different from the distribution rights, but anyone that thinks that Disney bought Lucasfilm without taking care of those as well, one way or another (any number of ways that could have been handled/arranged with Fox) simply know nothing about the Disney company. They didn't pay 4.1B for Lucasfilm - Lucasfilm actually wasn't in great financial shape at the time of the sale, they pretty much had to go back in the Star Wars feature film business - they paid for the Lucasfilm properties, and to think that they don't have things sewn up with the crown jewels is silly.

As to why all the secrecy surrounding it, I think that's kind of obvious - I'm sure Fox insisted any deals be kept confidential, considering how they bunked up the rights issues in the first place when signing all the Star Wars deals ("He wants the merchandising and rights to sequels? HA! They are worthless, let him have them...") and the effects that any Star Wars news involving them has on their stock - I wouldn't want anyone to know that I sold the crown jewel either. I'm sure Fox gladly gave up Ep VI rights for the prequel deal - at that point, Star Wars was a classic but it was 20 years old and this was the prospect of three movies that, for all they knew at the time, would completely replace the OT in the public's mind.

The way they have dealt with Star Wars from the get-go gives new meaning to "crazy like (a) Fox..." LOL.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

It might be announced at the Star Wars Celebration in April.

That's where my money is, for the initial announcement. And final specs for D23 in August.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I wish this forum had that feature where you could pin something to the top of every single page of every thread - because if it did, I would be voting for this to be there. If someone were a real masochist they could spend endless hours going back through this thread and counting how many times I and others have mentioned it, and I have a feeling it would easily be in the 100's, LOL.

This is different from the distribution rights, but anyone that thinks that Disney bought Lucasfilm without taking care of those as well, one way or another (any number of ways that could have been handled/arranged with Fox) simply know nothing about the Disney company. They didn't pay 4.1B for Lucasfilm - Lucasfilm actually wasn't in great financial shape at the time of the sale, they pretty much had to go back in the Star Wars feature film business - they paid for the Lucasfilm properties, and to think that they don't have things sewn up with the crown jewels is silly.

As to why all the secrecy surrounding it, I think that's kind of obvious - I'm sure Fox insisted any deals be kept confidential, considering how they bunked up the rights issues in the first place when signing all the Star Wars deals ("He wants the merchandising and rights to sequels? HA! They are worthless, let him have them...") and the effects that any Star Wars news involving them has on their stock - I wouldn't want anyone to know that I sold the crown jewel either. I'm sure Fox gladly gave up Ep VI rights for the prequel deal - at that point, Star Wars was a classic but it was 20 years old and this was the prospect of three movies that, for all they knew at the time, would completely replace the OT in the public's mind.

The way they have dealt with Star Wars from the get-go gives new meaning to "crazy like (a) Fox..." LOL.

It was never officially reported, but the LA Times mentioned it in 1998 -- that no one could talk officially but inside sources indicated Lucas got Star Wars back in exchange for distribution agreements for the prequels and TV broadcast rights for at least Episode I.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

The way they have dealt with Star Wars from the get-go gives new meaning to "crazy like (a) Fox..." LOL.

Well, to be fair to them they didn't know that this silly $10m space movie (which had already been passed on by the rest of the major studios) would become one of the biggest earners in the history of motion pictures, nor was movie-related merch as big a thing then as it was now, hence the signing over of things like rights and sequels. But as soon as SW went over like it did, Lucas had Fox over a barrel and he ****ed them every chance he got, like with the prequel distribution deal.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, to be fair to them they didn't know that this silly $10m space movie (which had already been passed on by the rest of the major studios) would become one of the biggest earners in the history of motion pictures, nor was movie-related merch as big a thing then as it was now, hence the signing over of things like rights and sequels. But as soon as SW went over like it did, Lucas had Fox over a barrel and he ****ed them every chance he got, like with the prequel distribution deal.

I don't know why the studios were so blind to the potential of merchandise sales...merchandising is what saved Walt Disney's bacon, going all the way back to the explosion of Mickey Mouse's popularity. And did no one notice all those Davy Crockett coonskin caps in 1954?

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't know why the studios were so blind to the potential of merchandise sales...merchandising is what saved Walt Disney's bacon, going all the way back to the explosion of Mickey Mouse's popularity. And did no one notice all those Davy Crockett coonskin caps in 1954?

I can, safely, say NO. No, I did not. Of course I'm only 43.

Well Disney sure struck for that merchandising now. It boggles the mind how much they can make off this franchise, if done correctly.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't know why the studios were so blind to the potential of merchandise sales...merchandising is what saved Walt Disney's bacon, going all the way back to the explosion of Mickey Mouse's popularity. And did no one notice all those Davy Crockett coonskin caps in 1954?

It's easy to say they were blind in hindsight but in the 70s merchandising wasn't really that big a deal. T-shirts, posters and lunch boxes brought in some money but by and large they weren't cash cows.

And it's not like Fox just gave the rights away. Lucas got them in exchange for his directing fee which would have been in the mid six figures. That was pretty real money back then.

And if you have to go back to Davy Crockett maybe you're kind of making Geoff D's point for him

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't know why the studios were so blind to the potential of merchandise sales...merchandising is what saved Walt Disney's bacon, going all the way back to the explosion of Mickey Mouse's popularity. And did no one notice all those Davy Crockett coonskin caps in 1954?

True, true, but kid-oriented merchandise revolved more around TV shows in the '70s. The cycle of stodgy disaster movies and edgy counter-culture flicks did little for film-related merch sales, and although Jaws had its fair share of cash-ins in '75 it was along the usual lines: T-shirts, books, soundtrack albums and so on ([edit] as octagon said).

Movie merch didn't start with Star Wars, but what it did do first was to saturate the market with Star Wars everything, i.e. there wasn't a consumer need for so much of that crap until LFL created it, and Fox can't be held accountable for that. (And they didn't actually cede all of the merchandising rights to Star Wars straight away, Fox actually held a big portion of the rights until Lucas - typically - renegotiated the rights as part of the deal to make Empire.)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by octagon

It's easy to say they were blind in hindsight but in the 70s merchandising wasn't really that big a deal. T-shirts, posters and lunch boxes brought in some money but by and large they weren't cash cows.

And it's not like Fox just gave the rights away. Lucas got them in exchange for his directing fee which would have been in the mid six figures. That was pretty real money back then.

And if you have to go back to Davy Crockett maybe you're kind of making Geoff D's point for him

I was going back to the late 20's, man.

Lucas and Spielberg are both huge Walt Disney fans, they grew up with Uncle Walt on TV. Not saying Lucas emulated Walt staking out a claim for merchandise rights, my point is execs 40 years ago might have been more prescient by knowing their film history. But, true, nobody saw the massive success of Star Wars coming, so it may be unfair to criticize them. Jaws sure moved a lot of merchandise. I'm going to assume Universal made sure to retain merchandise rights on E.T. Lord knows M&M lost out by declining to allow Spielberg to use the candy in the movie.

[Geoff D]

And their loss was Reese's gain.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Movie merch didn't start with Star Wars, but what it did do first was to saturate the market with Star Wars everything, i.e. there wasn't a consumer need for so much of that crap until LFL created it, and Fox can't be held accountable for that. (And they didn't actually cede all of the merchandising rights to Star Wars straight away, Fox actually held a big portion of the rights until Lucas - typically - renegotiated the rights as part of the deal to make Empire.)

I think Planet of the Apes was one of the big merchandisers before Star Wars and that only went ape after the series had finished and FOX started doing marathons.

Initially Lucas took less to write or direct the original for early merchandise rights, what were they called back then junk rights, garbage rights? I can't remember!

I doubt we can even comprehend how much stuff we'll see for the new movies, it will be huge. We'll probably all have Star Wars bed sheets and curtains this time next year!

[GuruAskew]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

they paid for the Lucasfilm properties, and to think that they don't have things sewn up with the crown jewels is silly.

If anything should be pinned to the top of the thread it's the fact that this argument is easily disproven and worthless.

What are the crown jewels of the Marvel properties? Undoubtedly Spider-Man and X-Men. And Disney could literally never have access to those two properties forever as long as Sony and Fox use them continuously.

Explain to me how purchasing a company missing the film rights to its two most popular properties makes sense but it's silly that they would purchase another that allows them to do everything BUT release a single movie from 40 years ago?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the ability to release Star Wars in theaters and on DVD and Blu-ray does not make or break a $4 billion dollar deal in any scenario.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

If anything should be pinned to the top of the thread it's the fact that this argument is easily disproven and worthless.

What are the crown jewels of the Marvel properties? Undoubtedly Spider-Man and X-Men. And Disney could literally never have access to those two properties forever as long as Sony and Fox use them continuously.

Explain to me how purchasing a company missing the film rights to its two most popular properties makes sense but it's silly that they would purchase another that allows them to do everything BUT release a single movie from 40 years ago?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the ability to release Star Wars in theaters and on DVD and Blu-ray does not make or break a $4 billion dollar deal in any scenario.

The only money Fox makes off of X-Men and The Fantastic Four are from the movies themselves. Toys, clothes, TV Shows, Soap, literally everything else goes to Marvel/Disney!
Same goes for Sony with Spider-Man.
And it won't be long before Spider-Man Movies reverts back to Marvel either.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

The only money Fox makes off of X-Men and The Fantastic Four are from the movies themselves. Toys, clothes, TV Shows, Soap, literally everything else goes to Marvel/Disney!
Same goes for Sony with Spider-Man.
And it won't be long before Spider-Man Movies reverts back to Marvel either.

What makes you say that?

[Gold Ranger]

There is something that we've all been overlooking...
even though we've talked about it.
The Special Editions...
I pointed out that they stopped being officially referred to as the Special Editions back with the last VHS release.

We haven't got anything Non- Special Edition since then.
EXCEPT for the DVD ports of the Non-Anamorphic ones.

I no longer own them.
I'm sure someone here does...
Can someone check to see if they altered the Copyright on them? Not just the Disk art, but in the Credits as well?

I'm not saying that this will solve anything, but it could help to end this back and forth for the time being.

I hope.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

What makes you say that?

Sony is bleeding money bad.
The only thing really keeping them afloat right now is the PlayStation Brand.

Sony banked on Amazing Spider-Man 2 (which I love) hard.
It failed to live up to Sony's own lofty expectations.
Sinister Six, Venom/Carnage, Amazing Spider-Man 3, Female Spider Film and Amazing Spider-Man 4 have all been indefinitely postponed until they come up with some sort of plan.

There has been talk between Marvel and Sony USA about how to continue on. Sony USA doesn't want to give up or in.
Sony Japan is about to either Partner up with Marvel or outright sell back to Marvel all of the Movie rights to Spider-Man.