Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's true. It's factual. You should do some research. The work was even covered in the Star Wars Insider.

That's certainly not the best place to do legitimate "research" on the history of Star Wars. Impartiality isn't their MO.

The Star Wars Insider is about as useful as the documentary on the DVD set.

It's interesting that you believe so much of what Lucas says and does. People in the industry would and DO disagree with you.

Personally, none of the released DVD's have hit my player since they were released. It's been all about the fan edits which, IMHO, are much more accurate than anything Lucas has officially released. The movies as released are visually and sonically inferior to what was initially released to theaters.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Beast

I think the people who worked on it know more about it than some angry fanboy.

You have absolutely no idea who I am or what I do for a living. Do you know anything about the realities of film storage and distribution or the practicalities of working with film? For that matter, do you know anything about how large organizations work and how information communicated to the public for marketing purposes might not be the best or most factual information to rely upon?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That's certainly not the best place to do legitimate "research" on the history of Star Wars. Impartiality isn't their MO.

The Star Wars Insider is about as useful as the documentary on the DVD set.

It's interesting that you believe so much of what Lucas says and does. People in the industry would and DO disagree with you.

Personally, none of the released DVD's have hit my player since they were released. It's been all about the fan edits which, IMHO, are much more accurate than anything Lucas has officially released. The movies as released are visually and sonically inferior to what was initially released to theaters.

It's a more legitimate place for information than a bunch of angry fans who have no facts.

And I don't care what "People" in the industry have to say. They don't know all the facts either.

Also... supporting illegal fan butchery already makes your opinion invalid. Especially if you also decry Lucas' altering his films.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That's certainly not the best place to do legitimate "research" on the history of Star Wars. Impartiality isn't their MO.

The Star Wars Insider is about as useful as the documentary on the DVD set.

It's interesting that you believe so much of what Lucas says and does. People in the industry would and DO disagree with you.

Personally, none of the released DVD's have hit my player since they were released. It's been all about the fan edits which, IMHO, are much more accurate than anything Lucas has officially released. The movies as released are visually and sonically inferior to what was initially released to theaters.

I've seen the theatrical releases of all of these films at the time of their release. While I'm not going to pretend to remember what the exact image quality was for the original releases, I remember the special editions looking like what they were. 35mm films from the late 70's and early 80's. They weren't some miracle of updating (referring to the original footage of course). There was occasional dust and dirt, more so in the opticals. Some scenes grainier than others depending on available lighting and opticals. I'm sure they looked no better than what was originally released, updated effects shots aside.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's a more legitimate place for information than a bunch of angry fans who have no facts.

And I don't care what "People" in the industry have to say. They don't know all the facts either.

Also... supporting illegal fan butchery already makes your opinion invalid. Especially if you also decry Lucas' altering his films.

I somehow believe you would discount any information, no matter the source, that would go against your romanticized view of this corporation.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's a more legitimate place for information than a bunch of angry fans who have no facts.

And I don't care what "People" in the industry have to say. They don't know all the facts either.

Also... supporting illegal fan butchery already makes your opinion invalid. Especially if you also decry Lucas' altering his films.

You're very quick to judge others and belittle them as "angry fans." Do you have something personal invested in Star Wars?
You also discredit people whose careers are more closely linked to Lucas than those of a Beastly internet fanboy. That speaks more of your own bias, insecurities and over-inflated ego than it does about anyone else's.
And nowhere did I "decry Lucas' altering of his films." I simply stated that he should be including BOTH versions of the films.
And, for the record, the fan edits are not illegal so long as you own the original version.

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I've seen the theatrical releases of all of these films at the time of their release. While I'm not going to pretend to remember what the exact image quality was for the original releases, I remember the special editions looking like what they were. 35mm films from the late 70's and early 80's. They weren't some miracle of updating (referring to the original footage of course). There was occasional dust and dirt, more so in the opticals. Some scenes grainier than others depending on available lighting and opticals. I'm sure they looked no better than what was originally released, updated effects shots aside.

Please compare the color timing of the various OT releases with the SE's. They're made to look much more like the PT, which is highly unfortunate. Hoth is now blue.

[Beast]

It's illegal. It just doesn't get shut down because people arn't stupid enough to try to make money off them.

If people attempted to distribute these fan made butcherings, they would swifting get targeted with legal action.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I've seen the theatrical releases of all of these films at the time of their release. While I'm not going to pretend to remember what the exact image quality was for the original releases, I remember the special editions looking like what they were. 35mm films from the late 70's and early 80's. They weren't some miracle of updating (referring to the original footage of course). There was occasional dust and dirt, more so in the opticals. Some scenes grainier than others depending on available lighting and opticals. I'm sure they looked no better than what was originally released, updated effects shots aside.

Is it really worth getting all worked up over, Plain and simple I will automatically assume these are going to be DNR to hell and PPL are just going to ***** and complain about that when they are released. At this point since the original negatives are in such horrid shape anyways we will never get the Original trilogy restored in its 1977 entirety. The Only Negative they have now is the 1997 SE versions at least according to the SE DVD's, and whatever base HD print they did back in 2004. If it is one thing I have learned about this site is that everyone has an opinion and sadly everyone believes they are right. The only ones I have seen in theaters is the 1997 reprints as I was to young to see the Originals on the big screen when they were released.

[Darthvong]

Here's the thing that I've always found puzzling about the whole "Lucas raped my childhood/ruined the OT" fanbase.

For the most part, with the advent of DVD/BD. Most popular films have been revisted/re-edited by the director and released to the applause of the fans. Even at times where the "new" version is preferred. I could list many films where the new director approved version is highly regarded over the theatrical release....EXCEPT when it comes to the OT!

I've been a SW fan since I was 7. Had all the toys, read all the books, watched all the films in their various forms. I don't consider myself an expert or the Alpha/Omega when it comes to SW, but I do think all the "fans" complaining about Lucas tampering with his own films is ridiculous. For better or for worse I'm excited to watch the OT in whatever form is available to me. Do I agree with all the changes? No, but it has never detracted from my enjoyment of the films. I do think that overall most of the changes were for the better.

Again, this is all just my opinion.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by R3P0

At this point since the original negatives are in such horrid shape anyways we will never get the Original trilogy restored in its 1977 entirety. The Only Negative they have now is the 1997 SE versions at least according to the SE DVD's, and whatever base HD print they did back in 2004.

Arrrrgh. Please stop repeating this. Pristine copies of the original theatrical versions are possible, no one sliced and diced any original camera negatives. When they say negative they are referring to either an internegative or some other negative safety copy.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Darthvong

For the most part, with the advent of DVD/BD. Most popular films have been revisted/re-edited by the director and released to the applause of the fans. Even at times where the "new" version is preferred. I could list many films where the new director approved version is highly regarded over the theatrical release....EXCEPT when it comes to the OT!

Name them. Be sure to mention that these films you are referring to have had the original versions destroyed and/or no longer exist.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

Name them. Be sure to mention that these films you are referring to have had the original versions destroyed and/or no longer exist.

Well, the theatrical version of Star Trek: The Motion Picture wasn't released on DVD.

The much superior Director's Cut was the only version released. And people were very happy.

Sadly the Blu-Ray only contains the much inferior much maligned original version of the film.

And regardless, Lucas has the right to do whatever he wants with his films. Even if that is never releasing the original cuts.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Beast

Well, the theatrical version of Star Trek: The Motion Picture wasn't released on DVD.

The much superior Director's Cut was the only version released. And people were very happy.

Sadly the Blu-Ray only contains the much inferior much maligned original version of the film.

There's lots of people who weren't happy that the original version wasn't released on DVD. Just like there are lots of people who are unhappy about the Amadeus Directors Cut, the recuts of the Chaplin films, and the 4 hour version of Dances With Wolves....it's not strictly a Star Wars phenomenon.

Originally Posted by Beast

And regardless, Lucas has the right to do whatever he wants with his films. Even if that is never releasing the original cuts.

Just like I, as a consumer, have the right to criticize that decision. Lucasfilms legal rights are irrelevant to the discussion, as no one is arguing against that point.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

There's lots of people who weren't happy that the original version wasn't released on DVD. It just so happens that Star Trek The Motion Picture isn't a widely loved movie thus the outcry wasn't as loud as the Star Wars situation.

It's moot anyway, now that the original theatrical version is the version presented on Bluray.

In addition to this

I'd like to use The Terminator as another example, but this time regarding it's audio. (There are some very minor visual tweaks). Anyhow for the dvd they made a new 5.1 mix and had the guns sounds changed and the score re-recorded, resulting in some changes. The blu-ray doesn't offer the original mono track and in the UK none of the dvds released have the original mono track. (The US dvd has the mono track, but it's at a laughable bit-rate).

A (much) smaller fanbase than StarWars, but people still care just as much.

[mlittle3]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

There's lots of people who weren't happy that the original version wasn't released on DVD. It just so happens that Star Trek The Motion Picture isn't a widely loved movie thus the outcry wasn't as loud as the Star Wars situation.



Just like I, as a consumer, have the right to criticize that decision. Lucasfilms legal rights are irrelevant to the discussion, as no one is arguing against that pont.

Yes, but these are Lucas' stories. His films. He has the right to do whatever he wants with them. You might not like it, but they belong to him, not us.

[Darthvong]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

Name them. Be sure to mention that these films you are referring to have had the original versions destroyed and/or no longer exist.

LOL! Way to add to it. From reading your posts it wouldn't matter what films I listed. You would just downgrade the films as not being as important as the almighty Original Star Wars.

The original forms of Star Wars do exist. I believe you've already said that there's no way they could be destroyed as Lucas has stated. Correct?

[PUsokrJosh305]

Here's my take on the whole OT and Special Edition "war," The Special Edition is truly what George wanted us all to see. Most of the flaws and incomplete things that were in the Original Trilogy was fixed and made better in George's eyes because that's the way he originally intended us to see it. Back in '77 and what not years he released the OT, the technology wasn't up to his standards. So the years after Star Wars, George helped form the movie industries technology, and with his help, created the technology that is used today. And since he helped push that advancement, he could go back to Star Wars and make it what he envisioned. Now, the 2004 versions are just the "complete the saga" as it were. meaning that the 2004 versions "connect" with the prequel trilogy. That's why I believe he will include the 1997 Special Edition so if fans want to just see the Original Trilogy George envisioned, than you can. The 2004 versions are for those who like the connected saga thing. I understand many of you saw the OT when you were children, and yes if I was born in that era, it would change me too. Plus, making movies is an art. I once made a movie for a class in high school. I had an editing program and the works. We filmed it in one day, and edited it in 3 days. It was great, but as I look back on it now, I would love to do more with it, like add realistic special effects. And I believe that's what George wanted to do. And guys, just enjoy the movies. The joy of being a Star Wars fan is not to complain about which version to watch. It's just to enjoy the movies and let the world know that Star Wars will never die!!!

[Darthvong]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

The joy of being a Star Wars fan is not to complain about which version to watch. It's just to enjoy the movies and let the world know that Star Wars will never die!!!

[Strevlac]

Let me ask you people this:

What if Micheal Curtiz sprang back from the dead and decreed "For the new and improved ultra special edition of Casablanca, we have gone back to the original negative and cut in new digital effects and scenes of Humphrey Bogart being a nicer guy, and cut out all of the Nazi scenes or references to Nazi's. In addition, we have painstakingly colorized the entire film, and the negative for the original version of Casablanca no longer exists. You will love this new, miraculous version of the all-time classic Casablanca."

Once you got over your initial exasperation at the reanimation of a person who has been dead for 50 some odd years, what would your reaction be?

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Darthvong

The original forms of Star Wars do exist. I believe you've already said that there's no way they could be destroyed as Lucas has stated. Correct?

Correct. That's just what Lucasfilm claims. I should have said "indefinately withheld from distribution"