Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Anybody who claims to offer enlightenment is usually selling just the opposite.

You wont know...unless you go.

[alexdg1]

Originally Posted by svenge

Yeah, because you PT/SE types are sooooo accepting of criticisms regarding the myriad missteps and self-inflicted damage that Lucas has done to the franchise since 1983...

Actually, I'm a fan from the 1977 Generation who would have liked a nice Blu-ray transfer of the pre-Special Edition OT.

I respect your opinion; you don't like the SE or the PT films. I get it. But why do you have to use sarcasm to make your point? Clearly, you are not going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to try and change yours.

[alexdg1]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

Awesome post, Krypto:






I've always been baffled that nobody seems to get this. Star Wars is a unique cultural phenomenon in many ways, and one of those is that Star Wars is a rare example where over the years a vociferous, aggressive, obsessive minority has effectively badgered a majority into changing their opinions to agree with the whiners (I imagine a lot of people go along with it just to get them to stop the whining). Even some of the people that put a lot of their own work and effort into making the films have been badgered so much that they now openly profess to hate Star Wars and be ashamed of their work. They also got their wish and drove Lucas out of the Star Wars business.

I believe Rick McCallum left Lucasfilm exactly for the reasons you state here.

Fans of almost any franchise can be extremely possessive. Star Wars fans have earned a reputation for being overzealous in their love/hate for the series, but Star Trek fans aren't too far behind. Just visit any Facebook group related to Trek and read the threads about the new "reboot" movies and you'll see what I mean.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

You've already repeatedly explained your opinion about why you don't like them; (repetition doesn't turn opinion into fact).

What you have yet to explain, is why you always choose to be so cantankerous, hostile, and generally emotionally disturbed about it.



There is no point arguing with an opinion, so I'm not going to do it. However, I do have to take this opinion with the hefty dose of salt of knowing it comes from someone who likes Firefly, (which, in my opinion, at its very best it is still worse than the worst of Star Wars), a person who just posited Tarantino as his example of ultimate dialogue, and who just tried to pass off the above bolded argument as being logical.



Why do some people always make the irrational leap to complaining that they are "not being allowed to have their opinion" just because other people are exercising their right to a dissenting opinion? Having a right to an opinion doesn't mean badgering people into admitting that your opinion is "right", and other people sticking to their opinion and not rolling over for yours does not constitute depriving you of your right to an opinion.

I made my post because Kryptonic was whining about how people who dislike the prequels never explain why other than "they suck" so I explained why. Also congrats on the bolded part, are you 8 years old?

Edit: I see you own Nolan's Batman films on BD, so I now know that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by alexdg1

I believe Rick McCallum left Lucasfilm exactly for the reasons you state here.

I think McCallum's services were no longer needed when Kathleen Kennedy came on board.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I think McCallum's services were no longer needed when Kathleen Kennedy came on board.

Best thing that ever could have happened to the franchise.

[alexdg1]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I think McCallum's services were no longer needed when Kathleen Kennedy came on board.

Perhaps. But if you were a movie producer and were constantly hearing extremely negative feedback about a project you worked on for several years, you'd probably look for the nearest exit and leave.

It could have been a combination of low morale, George Lucas's impending sale of the company to Walt Disney, and Kathleen Kennedy's promotion as head of Lucasfilm that caused McCallum to leave.

[motorheadache95]

[QUOTE=alexdg1;10316089]I heartily agree with you, sir.

If some fans don't like the Prequel Trilogy (or elements thereof), that's their opinion. They are free to express it.

I like the Prequel Trilogy, even though it has its weak spots. The Original Trilogy (even the Holy Grail of the original theatrical versions) has its weak spots, as well.

What I don't like, though, is when the fans that don't like the Prequels or the modifications to the Original Trilogy get argumentative and even...yes...badger other fans that don't agree with them.[/QUOTE]

Both sides do it: at this point, arguments over the merits or lack thereof of the special editions/prequels are just a circle of insults and passive aggressive statements towards others who express the opposite opinion.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by alexdg1

Perhaps. But if you were a movie producer and were constantly hearing extremely negative feedback about a project you worked on for several years, you'd probably look for the nearest exit and leave.

It could have been a combination of low morale, George Lucas's impending sale of the company to Walt Disney, and Kathleen Kennedy's promotion as head of Lucasfilm that caused McCallum to leave.

IMDB has all of these people listed as producers...McCallum had a good relationship with Mr. Lucas, probably wasn't needed moving forward since Mr. Lucas retired.

J.J. Abrams ... producer
Bryan Burk ... producer
Tommy Gormley ... co-producer
Tommy Harper ... executive producer
Lawrence Kasdan ... co-producer
Kathleen Kennedy ... producer
Jason D. McGatlin ... executive producer (as Jason McGatlin)
Michelle Rejwan ... co-producer
Ben Rosenblatt ... co-producer
John Swartz ... co-producer

[Braktastic]

I didn't see this posted here. This is a fascinating Star Wars essay. It's quite long but worth the read:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Braktastic

I didn't see this posted here. This is a fascinating Star Wars essay. It's quite long but worth the read:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

Wow! Thanks for posting. I've only had a chance to read the first page so far, but it's very intriguing, and I look forward to diving in.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Braktastic

I didn't see this posted here. This is a fascinating Star Wars essay. It's quite long but worth the read:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

Brief summary please?

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Of all the time I've spend reading these arguments (way more than a human being should) the worst thing an argument can degenerate into is "more people agree with me!" or "Your opinion is just that of a whiny vocal minority!"

As if anybody has taken a world-wide poll to check it out. It's stupid and people just do it because they feel offended and are trying to make opposing opinions look stupid or insignificant.

The only reason the "vocal minority" point ever comes up, is because of the fact that such a disproportionate amount of internet content is dedicated to hating New Star Wars. There are so many things that are disliked by many, yet only the American President can approach the amount of sustained vitriol directed at George Lucas and New Star Wars on the internet. No world-wide poll is necessary, it doesn't take a scientific survey to see that it is completely disproportionate: if you went by what you see from blogs, pseudo-critics, and chat forums, you would think that everybody and their dog hates New Star Wars, but boxoffice grosses, home video sales, and cable TV licensing all indicate that New Star Wars has actually been quite popular.

A "whiner" is not a person who hates New Star Wars, a "whiner" is a person who makes it their relentless mission to bicker with everybody about it until the day they have finally converted every single person in the world to also hate it... since that day will never come, it is a futile and irrational quest. It is indefensible behavior, and anybody who would attempt to defend it is doing a discredit to themselves.

Originally Posted by svenge

Yeah, because you PT/SE types are sooooo accepting of criticisms regarding the myriad missteps and self-inflicted damage that Lucas has done to the franchise since 1983...

Why should anyone have to acquiesce to your "criticisms", which are entirely based in your opinion? The supercilious nature of the comment just further proves the point:

Nobody really has a problem with people hating New Star Wars, what people have a problem with is the multitude of neurotics who have made it their full-time job to harangue the rest of us until we throw up our hands and say "OK, fine, you win, your opinion is right and mine is wrong, New Star Wars sucks". Some have been at it nonstop for 15+ years, it's gotten well beyond sad or annoying.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

The only reason the "vocal minority" point ever comes up, is because of the fact that such a disproportionate amount of internet content is dedicated to hating New Star Wars. There are so many things that are disliked by many, yet only the American President can approach the amount of sustained vitriol directed at George Lucas and New Star Wars on the internet. No world-wide poll is necessary, it doesn't take a scientific survey to see that it is completely disproportionate: if you went by what you see from blogs, pseudo-critics, and chat forums, you would think that everybody and their dog hates New Star Wars, but boxoffice grosses, home video sales, and cable TV licensing all indicate that New Star Wars has actually been quite popular.

A "whiner" is not a person who hates New Star Wars, a "whiner" is a person who makes it their relentless mission to bicker with everybody about it until the day they have finally converted every single person in the world to also hate it... since that day will never come, it is a futile and irrational quest. It is indefensible behavior, and anybody who would attempt to defend it is doing a discredit to themselves.



Why should anyone have to acquiesce to your "criticisms", which are entirely based in your opinion? The supercilious nature of the comment just further proves the point:

Nobody really has a problem with people hating New Star Wars, what people have a problem with is the multitude of neurotics who have made it their full-time job to harangue the rest of us until we throw up our hands and say "OK, fine, you win, your opinion is right and mine is wrong, New Star Wars sucks". Some have been at it nonstop for 15+ years, it's gotten well beyond sad or annoying.

Well said!

Nothing wrong with having a less than favorable opinion of Star Wars, just don't cross the line with it. For some people, it seems, that's just too tall an order.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Both sides do it: at this point, arguments over the merits or lack thereof of the special editions/prequels are just a circle of insults and passive aggressive statements towards others who express the opposite opinion.

Hopefully part of that will FINALLY be rectified when they announce the blu ray release of the original versions later this year.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Hopefully part of that will FINALLY be rectified when they announce the blu ray release of the original versions later this year.

That would be nice, but I'm sure there will be a select few that will hate, just because that's all they know how to do when the topic of Star Wars comes up.
Heck some folks are already pre-hating VII.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by rickah88

That would be nice, but I'm sure there will be a select few that will hate, just because that's all they know how to do when the topic of Star Wars comes up.
Heck some folks are already pre-hating VII.

Hey c'mon man, let's not start that up again. I'm trying to be more positive this year.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Well said!

Nothing wrong with having a less than favorable opinion of Star Wars, just don't cross the line with it. For some people, it seems, that's just too tall an order.

Exactly, especially when it comes in the form of personal insults. Once those start it's clearly a sign that one has run out of constructive conversation.

Originally Posted by rickah88

That would be nice, but I'm sure there will be a select few that will hate, just because that's all they know how to do when the topic of Star Wars comes up.
Heck some folks are already pre-hating VII.

I have not seen one person who is "pre-hating". I have seen some people with legit concerns about some things but how can you "hate" a film that has yet been released not to mention seen.

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Hopefully part of that will FINALLY be rectified when they announce the blu ray release of the original versions later this year.

That I feel is the only thing that will bring the camps together. I don't think you will see the arguing once everyone has the release the want.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Brief summary please?

"George Lucas knows the best way to frame a shot," and "communicating a narrative through editing."

[octagon]

Originally Posted by rickah88

So what is your official stance? Do you like or no?
Seriously, I am curious as most of your posts seem to straddle the fence.

TPM is pretty bad overall but not as bad I thought the first time around. The more I watch it the more easily I'm able to tolerate the bad stuff and some of the cool stuff holds up pretty well.

Clones is worse than I first thought. The bad stuff is just awful and has gotten harder to watch over time. And some of the stuff that I thought was okay (the arena and the clones, the Dooku v Everybody duel) seems kind of tedious now. There's still some cool stuff (the bounty hunter chase was pretty decent and everything around or on Kamino was good) but not nearly enough.

Sith is pretty good overall. It definitely has too many problems to say it's good without some sort of qualifier but there's a lot of cool stuff, the bad stuff isn't usually *that* bad and it's relatively easy to overlook.