Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by mlittle3

Yes, but these are Lucas' stories. His films. He has the right to do whatever he wants with them. You might not like it, but they belong to him, not us.

It looks like you guys are a little slow on the uptake. As the audience, we have a right to criticize anything we want. Legalities of ownership are irrelevant.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

Let me ask you people this:

What if Micheal Curtiz sprang back from the dead and decreed "For the new and improved ultra special edition of Casablanca, we have gone back to the original negative and cut in new digital effects and scenes of Humphrey Bogart being a nicer guy, and cut out all of the Nazi scenes or references to Nazi's. In addition, we have painstakingly colorized the entire film, and the negative for the original version of Casablanca no longer exists. You will love this new, miraculous version of the all-time classic Casablanca."

Once you got over your initial exasperation at the reanimation of a person who has been dead for 50 some odd years, what would your reaction be?

Your forgetting one thing, that's not what the director intended for us to see. George wanted us to see what was on screen in 1997, didn't you ever watch the 1997 trailer for the Special Edition. It says something on the lines of, "now experience Star Wars the way it was meant to be seen." again, that's what George wanted us to see. I respect the love of the original releases, but you must accept that George went back and wanted us to see the 97 versions

[Space_Butler]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Here's my take on the whole OT and Special Edition "war," The Special Edition is truly what George wanted us all to see.

Frankly I was fine not seeing what he "wanted us all to see". The original drafts of Star Wars were so mindbogglingly terrible that if it weren't for his wife and many of the people around him, the script wouldn't have been able to be taken seriously by anyone and Star Wars would be another quirkly old film that people pull out to make fun of. There is definitely a case to be made that just because the author wished for us to see something, doesn't mean it's better or necessarily good. There is literally no excuse, in an era of seamless branching, that we should be pigeonholed into one "edition". It's unacceptable for any movie, Star Wars included.

Regardless of authorial intent, the original versions of the OT are what I and many others like best. Sometimes it's taken into the realm of hyperbole on both sides, but fans on x side love to argue that those on y side aren't allowed to have their opinion because of z, like it's some specific case that makes Star Wars "special" from other films. To me, there should be zero difference between those saying they prefer the original version of the OT and those that prefer the theatrical version of "Alien", or the final cut of Blade Runner, or the extended edition of The Abyss, and so forth.

In short, Star Wars fans on both sides need to remember that the Star Wars films are, above all else, films. If you have respect for the medium, make your arguments as if you're arguing about any other film. Just because it's Star Wars and close to your heart doesn't mean you're allowed to ignore the tropes of cinematic debate.

(Everything after the first paragraph wasn't specifically directed at you, by the way, your post just made it easy for me to launch into a larger point)

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Space_Butler

(Everything after the first paragraph wasn't specifically directed at you, by the way, your post just made it easy for me to launch into a larger point)

That's fine, you put it into a logical perspective and yes, I agree, George could put both versions on the bluray, but that takes a pretty good amount of space up. I have the Harry Potter Ultimate Editions, and the first 2 do seamless branching. It's a cool feature, but is still kinda screwy at times. One of these days, he may do that. But for now we must accept what we have in front of us

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Your forgetting one thing, that's not what the director intended for us to see. George wanted us to see what was on screen in 1997, didn't you ever watch the 1997 trailer for the Special Edition. It says something on the lines of, "now experience Star Wars the way it was meant to be seen." again, that's what George wanted us to see. I respect the love of the original releases, but you must accept that George went back and wanted us to see the 97 versions

All films are the result of the tools and limitations of the time they are made. Do you think Micheal Curtiz would make Casablanca today exactly the way he made it in 1943? Using midgets and 1/4 scale model airplanes in long shots?

Charlie Chaplin was unhappy with his original cuts of Modern Times and The Gold Rush. He recut them for a rerelease 15 years later and that was all that was available for a long time. LOTS of Chaplin fans hate those cuts. The Criterion Collection released the recuts due to the demands of the Chaplin estate, and there are many folks who passed on the release, including myself. I don't like those cuts, and feel they are inferior to the original versions, which where thankfully at least available on DVD from Image Entertainment. So, Chaplin fans are voicing their displeasure because they want bluray releases of the original cuts.

It doesn't matter what Chaplin's true "vision" was. People have seen both cuts and most people prefer the original cuts. It's that simple.

[aiman04]

This thread will automatically destruct in "T" minus five minutes.

[Show spoiler]

[CRD13NYC]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but apparently there is an announcement coming tomorrow during the Panasonic presentation @ CES



http://bluray.ign.com/articles/114/1142730p1.html

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

All films are the result of the tools and limitations of the time they are made. Do you think Micheal Curtiz would make Casablanca today exactly the way he made it in 1943? Using midgets and 1/4 scale model airplanes in long shots?

Charlie Chaplin was unhappy with his original cuts of Modern Times and The Gold Rush. He recut them for a rerelease 15 years later and that was all that was available for a long time. LOTS of Chaplin fans hate those cuts. The Criterion Collection released the recuts due to the demands of the Chaplin estate, and there are many folks who passed on the release, including myself. I don't like those cuts, and feel they are inferior to the original versions, which where thankfully at least available on DVD from Image Entertainment. So, Chaplin fans are voicing their displeasure because they want bluray releases of the original cuts.

It doesn't matter what Chaplin's true "vision" was. People have seen both cuts and most people prefer the original cuts. It's that simple.

I agree, but from what I can see, the Special Edition was more of an "improved" Star Wars that fixed things that looked incomplete, a couple scenes added. I know some didn't like the ROTJ ending, but they were all improved, not really trashed. The older cuts aren't as clear, not and with many flaws. He just wanted to "restore with added things," in a way. I like all the versions of the films because they all tell the same story, just with improvements and it also shows the progress of technology.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

It's a cool feature, but is still kinda screwy at times.

Screwy how? Are the HP discs faulty?

It works perfectly fine on Alien Anthology & Avatar CE.

This is a moot point as too much was changed for him to do it branching.

They would have to be released on seperate discs.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by supersonic395

Screwy how? Are the HP discs faulty?

It works perfectly fine on Alien Anthology & Avatar CE.

This is a moot point as too much was changed for him to do it branching.

They would have to be released on seperate discs.

Well, for one thing, I had to get a new player because of the seamless branching wouldn't work in my Samsung player because all Samsungs that year wouldn't do seamless branching. I mean it's ok, but when you switch to the other film, the audio doesn't change, you have to pause it and unpause it. Like in the HP movies, it goes from theatrical 6.1, to extended 5.1. I mean if you get over that fact, it's fine. And yes he's changed a lot to where he would need them on separate discs.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by CRD13NYC

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but apparently there is an announcement coming tomorrow during the Panasonic presentation @ CES

No, I don't think anyone has mentioned that.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

The older cuts aren't as clear, not and with many flaws.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "older cuts aren't as clear". Do you mean story wise or picture quality wise? If you mean picture quality wise, you would only be correct if referring to film elements and resultant transfers for home video. The scenes are there in 35mm film, as they always have been. A proper 4k or 6K scan and it'd look great.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Well, for one thing, I had to get a new player because of the seamless branching wouldn't work in my Samsung player because all Samsungs that year wouldn't do seamless branching. I mean it's ok, but when you switch to the other film, the audio doesn't change, you have to pause it and unpause it. Like in the HP movies, it goes from theatrical 6.1, to extended 5.1. I mean if you get over that fact, it's fine. And yes he's changed a lot to where he would need them on separate discs.

I'm not sure of the veracity of your comments, but that said:

Ok, using an outdated player plus a poor encode isn't the rule for seamless branching. Using it to somehow dampen/lower the effect isn't really good sport.

Anyway, enough on that.

According to that CES poster, it says "a most impressive announcement". Surely for it to impress it ought to include the PT, 04-OT (with fixes) plus the OOT in original aspect ratio and original audio.

Then again I'm probably being overly optimistic and it'll just be the 04-OT & PT.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

No, I don't think anyone has mentioned that.

lol

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "older cuts aren't as clear". Do you mean story wise or picture quality wise? If you mean picture quality wise, you would only be correct if referring to film elements and resultant transfers for home video. The scenes are there in 35mm film, as they always have been. A proper 4k or 6K scan and it'd look great.

Again, I agree with you on that, but George doesn't want to do that. I know many don't like that, but we as fans of his film must accept that and move on. I personally just want them on blu-ray because I'm tired of seeing them on DVD and I'd rather have pristine picture and, hopefully, 7.1 surround sound. Star Wars will be awesome on blu-ray and I'm glad George will bring them to us a lot earlier than he did with the DVDs!

[CRD13NYC]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

No, I don't think anyone has mentioned that.

Obviously we all know about the Blu. I was talking specifically about tomorrow's event.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by supersonic395

According to that CES poster, it says "a most impressive announcement". Surely for it to impress it ought to include the PT, 04-OT (with fixes) plus the OOT in original aspect ratio and original audio.

Or it could just be a quote from the Empire Strikes Back.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Again, I agree with you on that, but George doesn't want to do that. I know many don't like that, but we as fans of his film must accept that and move on. I personally just want them on blu-ray because I'm tired of seeing them on DVD and I'd rather have pristine picture and, hopefully, 7.1 surround sound. Star Wars will be awesome on blu-ray and I'm glad George will bring them to us a lot earlier than he did with the DVDs!

As an FYI, my preferred cuts are the 04 ones (hoping the effects will be fixed this time, plus I think Hayden should be made to look a little older in ROTJ so as to look more graceful alongside the old and wise Kenobi & Yoda).

But still, we shouldn't just accept that as a fan of his film. As fans of the film medium, pressure should be there so that he releases the OT.

We aren't sheep, we can say "No". Ok, so Lucas prefers the revisited version. That's fine. But he should release the original version alongside them for the sake of history and preservation.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

But we as fans of his film must accept that and move on.

You are of course welcome to your opinion regardng the quality of the newer cuts. With that said, this is the point we will have to agree to disagree on. I am a lover of film and film history, not just Star Wars. Many films have become part of our cultural heritage and people who value historical authenticity must continue to make their voices heard.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Or it could just be a quote from the Empire Strikes Back.

I can dream.