Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by chip75

I sort of remember the comment, but I can't put it in context.

Had a quick look Lucas mentions that Boba was going to be a clone like the rest of the stormtroopers and that the head bumping on Slave 1 was passed down to the stormtroopers (like the one who bumped his head on the Death Star). So it sounds like they're supposed to be clones in the OT as well ...

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except the Emperor change in Empire is in line with Jedi, not the prequels.

Not really. The makeup on Palpatine's face in Revenge of the Sith doesn't match the makeup in Return of the Jedi. The makeup in the altered scene from Empire more closely resembles the makeup in Sith than it does Jedi.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Vulture Lives

Not really. The makeup on Palpatine's face in Revenge of the Sith doesn't match the makeup in Return of the Jedi. The makeup in the altered scene from Empire more closely resembles the makeup in Sith than it does Jedi.

The voice and having Ian McDiarmid was the main thing. You don't see the Emperor's makeup too much in Sith and never and he's never unhooded in Jedi, so I just chalk that up to different techniques decades later. Plus he shot the scene while doing Sith so why spend the money on altering the makeup that only a few might notice? Heck, Vader's suit changes a bit from Star Wars to Empire. Does anyone really care?

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The voice and having Ian McDiarmid was the main thing. You don't see the Emperor's makeup too much in Sith and never and he's never unhooded in Jedi, so I just chalk that up to different techniques decades later. Plus he shot the scene while doing Sith so why spend the money on altering the makeup that only a few might notice? Heck, Vader's suit changes a bit from Star Wars to Empire. Does anyone really care?

Bingo. All of this.

[Geoff D]

But that's the thing, just because it's McDiarmid doesn't automatically make it awesome for me, he's carrying none of the menace (heh) I get from the Revill monkey-eyed-old-lady version.

[solaris72]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It's been a long time (over a decade in fact) since I listened to the commentaries for the movies, so if he does I forgot it. That doesn't really make sense to me though, since the clones age twice as fast as a normal human being that would put the PT era Clone Troopers in their 60's or thereabouts in the OT.

And they clearly don't sound the same either. Lucas could've easily dubbed all their lines over with Temuera Morrison like he did with Boba for consistency's sake, but he didn't. So, regardless of what he's said in the past, the evidence in the films themselves seems to point to the contrary, and now that Disney/Lucasfilm have decided they aren't clones there's really no contradiction in that.

The aging isn't an issue, because new clones can be whipped up to replace the elder ones.

But I do agree that the onscreen evidence suggests that stormtroopers are not clones. (Particularly the episode 7 trailer.) One does wonder why the Empire would make the change- it's obviously not an organization with a whole lot of humanitarian sentiment, and as mentioned before in this thread, the clones are a better shot. I expect it will be addressed in Star Wars Rebels. (haven't seen the first season yet so maybe it already has been...)

[chips99]

Can't find any pre-order links from any of the retailers, but it looks like the Complete Saga that was released back in 2011 is being re-released in October of this year, which what appears to be all the previous bonus footage and discs as before? (http://www.starwars.com/news/the-sta...ray-steelbooks)

Does anyone know if all the bonus material which was in the original release, which presumably will be the same in this re-package is the same as all the bonus material one gets if they order the complete saga from iTunes?

Does either option iTunes or Disc offer any more bonus material, one way or the other?

Thanks in advance - I've never seen any of the Star Wars movies all the way through (I know a sin to many people) and I want to make sure I get the best experience I can because I think I'm finally going to delve in and get to watching them soon.

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But that's the thing, just because it's McDiarmid doesn't automatically make it awesome for me, he's carrying none of the menace (heh) I get from the Revill monkey-eyed-old-lady version.

Not to mention that the altered dialogue in the scene is for the worse.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

The fact that they all had different voices and were of different heights kind of precludes them from being clones in the OT, anyway. Lucas did and said a lot of things that made no sense during the Prequels' time.

this... lucas couldn't back track enough to fix the issues he created. the inconsistencies between series and what he "said" post original trilogy really don't match up.

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The voice and having Ian McDiarmid was the main thing. You don't see the Emperor's makeup too much in Sith and never and he's never unhooded in Jedi, so I just chalk that up to different techniques decades later. Plus he shot the scene while doing Sith so why spend the money on altering the makeup that only a few might notice? Heck, Vader's suit changes a bit from Star Wars to Empire. Does anyone really care?

I care. It's symptomatic of a larger problem in regard to Lucas' vision, or lack thereof, for all six movies. And, I disagree that you don't see Palpatine's makeup too much. You are afforded perfectly clear shots of it in both Sith and Jedi. We're talking about a billionaire and his multi-million dollar productions; is basic continuity too much to ask for?

[Doctor Jack]

Originally Posted by Vulture Lives

I care. It's symptomatic of a larger problem in regard to Lucas' vision, or lack thereof, for all six movies. And, I disagree that you don't see Palpatine's makeup too much. You are afforded perfectly clear shots of it in both Sith and Jedi. We're talking about a billionaire and his multi-million dollar productions; is basic continuity too much to ask for?

But if everything matched up perfectly, what would all of you complain about for years on end?

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

But if everything matched up perfectly, what would all of you complain about for years on end?

Shifting the goal posts much?

[MattPerdue]

Originally Posted by chips99

Can't find any pre-order links from any of the retailers, but it looks like the Complete Saga that was released back in 2011 is being re-released in October of this year, which what appears to be all the previous bonus footage and discs as before? (http://www.starwars.com/news/the-sta...ray-steelbooks)

Does anyone know if all the bonus material which was in the original release, which presumably will be the same in this re-package is the same as all the bonus material one gets if they order the complete saga from iTunes?

Does either option iTunes or Disc offer any more bonus material, one way or the other?

Thanks in advance - I've never seen any of the Star Wars movies all the way through (I know a sin to many people) and I want to make sure I get the best experience I can because I think I'm finally going to delve in and get to watching them soon.

The digital releases have special features that aren't on the BDs but the BDs have special features that aren't available through the digital releases. The BD set contains more but there is quite a bit that was left off from previous home video releases. Here's hoping for an "Alien Anthology"-like BD set somewhere down the road. I don't think it'll ever happen but I can dream.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I wonder why Lucas didn't have Temuera Morrison do the stormtrooper's voices in ANH like he did with Fett in Empire when he ruined the films for the BD release?

Plus the Clones could actually hit stuff when they shot at them. Stormtroopers can't hit the broad side of a Star Destroyer.

To be fair the Clone Troopers suddenly become noticeably more incompetent after Order 66, when they turn into the villains. And on the flip side the Stormtroopers could be pretty deadly (mostly off-screen with us seeing the results after the fact, such as the massacred Jawas or the charred corpses of Owen and Beru) when the story called for it. It just comes down to how important the person they're shooting at is.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I mean, I guess. I don't really feel passionate about it either way, to be honest, but it did seem clear to me the intention was they were the same dudes. Accelerated growth to maturity, but not necessarily after that. Lucas saying as much on the commentary seems important to me, but it doesn't really matter anymore, you're right.

Anyway whatevs, I just think it will be funny when the new stuff contradicts the prequels because people will be torn between wanting continuity but disliking the prequel films.

Oh yeah, accelerated growth for a limited time only. But still, if they're the exact same Clone Troopers then they'd still be pretty old by the time of the OT. Actually, how old are they biologically in Sith? Thinking about it, Morrison was in his 40's at the time of filming so if the characters themselves are the same age that means they'd actually be in their 60's in the OT just by aging normally. Of course, the same exact generation of clones wouldn't be the only ones used, they'd surely keep pumping out new ones while the old would be left to serve for as long as they were physically able I guess.

And yeah, regardless of what Lucas thought of it at a certain point in time, Disney/Lucasfilm are in charge now and it seems they're going for conscripts over clones with the Stormtroopers. I do care about continuity (not super anal about it though) and I don't really see a contradiction in that. Explaining it is pretty simple; the Clone Troopers are created and used to serve their purpose during the events of Episodes II-III, then they're either retired soon after or kept in use until they kick the bucket (which means a few could still be around in the OT, mixed in with the new guys), while the Empire start recruiting soldiers from around the galaxy to replace them.

Originally Posted by solaris72

The aging isn't an issue, because new clones can be whipped up to replace the elder ones.

But I do agree that the onscreen evidence suggests that stormtroopers are not clones. (Particularly the episode 7 trailer.) One does wonder why the Empire would make the change- it's obviously not an organization with a whole lot of humanitarian sentiment, and as mentioned before in this thread, the clones are a better shot. I expect it will be addressed in Star Wars Rebels. (haven't seen the first season yet so maybe it already has been...)

The Clone Wars did fill in a few gaps left unexplained in the movies so Rebels could easily do a bit of the same, good point.

[chips99]

Originally Posted by MattPerdue

The digital releases have special features that aren't on the BDs but the BDs have special features that aren't available through the digital releases. The BD set contains more but there is quite a bit that was left off from previous home video releases. Here's hoping for an "Alien Anthology"-like BD set somewhere down the road. I don't think it'll ever happen but I can dream.

Thanks for the info. Now to decide what type to get - physical or digital. :-)

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except it is impossible. They go from the skiff flying away directly into space with the Falcon and Luke's X-Wing with an uninterrupted music cue. NO prints would go out differently, either 35 or 70MM. I saw it opening week in 70MM and it's exactly the same on VHS, LD, SE LD, DVD, and now BD. The next reel change is when Luke hears Obi-Wan says "Yoda will always be with you" on Dagobah while he's talking to R2.

Thank you! That's interesting about the second reel change, so where is the first? Where do you get your info from? I figured there must be some kind of database for stats like that. Michael Coates always has great stats for his articles about old movies. Honestly I can't pinpoint the exact moment when I saw that shot but it was definitely in the latter part of the sail barge scene. It would have made some sense at the point where I thought it was, but if the reel change isn't there then it must have been somewhere else. There is a close up of Leia and Jabba with a lot of scratches. Is that the first reel change? I can't think of another logical reason. Unless someone spliced in a few frames as a joke? But where did the footage come from? It wasn't from the sandstorm scene because it was too bright. Han's arms were free when he was walking so it would have been after they were off the sail barge. I know it doesn't make any sense and that's why it stood out when I first saw it and why I couldn't stop thinking about it during the movie.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

Thank you! That's interesting about the second reel change, so where is the first?

The transition of Chewie being shoved into his cell and the outside sunset shot of Jabba's palace when the frog-thing catches the critter and belches.

Where do you get your info from? I figured there must be some kind of database for stats like that. Michael Coates always has great stats for his articles about old movies. Honestly I can't pinpoint the exact moment when I saw that shot but it was definitely in the latter part of the sail barge scene. It would have made some sense at the point where I thought it was, but if the reel change isn't there then it must have been somewhere else. There is a close up of Leia and Jabba with a lot of scratches. Is that the first reel change? I can't think of another logical reason. Unless someone spliced in a few frames as a joke? But where did the footage come from? It wasn't from the sandstorm scene because it was too bright. Han's arms were free when he was walking so it would have been after they were off the sail barge. I know it doesn't make any sense and that's why it stood out when I first saw it and why I couldn't stop thinking about it during the movie.

Research, working in cinema, etc.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The transition of Chewie being shoved into his cell and the outside sunset shot of Jabba's palace when the frog-thing catches the critter and belches.



Research, working in cinema, etc.

Thank you very much my friend, I’m pretty sure you helped me solve a 32 year old riddle. The image I had in my head is from when Han is first thrown into the cell. I remembered his hand on the wall and him staggering, (details I didn’t include in the most recent post, but I have documented before). And the bright light from the overhead window explains why I would have thought it was outside. Putting it in context, when I saw it originally suddenly Han is there staggering in a bright light then there was an interruption due to the reel change and subsequent countdown (I remembered that accurately). That abruptness stood out and that’s what made the image stick in my head. I guess my best explanation is that the second reel was too far ahead when they made the switch so I saw a few seconds of the shot of Han, then they caught the error, ran it back, and started it again in a hurry so that’s why I saw the reel change countdown. Does that sound more plausible? So almost all of the details surrounding that memory were correct, but taken out of context. Of course over 10 years later I still remembered it, and when reading about the sandstorm scene I took that memory and tried to make it fit with that somehow. Add another 10-15 years of that theory and I can see how my recollection was skewed. After reading your post about where the first reel change was it got me thinking so I spun up ROTJ and watched that scene. Sure enough, that’s what it must have been.

I understand how memories and details get altered over time, some people completely make up facts, whereas others have excellent visual memories (or other senses), but without the proper context and with other outside influences those images (or sounds or smells) can be adapted to fit logic. That’s why when I read where someone claims they remember the color timing of a film from 40 years ago, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s very likely they are wrong, but there are some people that just have that attention to certain details. And I don’t know about you, but I’m impressed with the fact that I remembered those details like that, especially the reel change countdown. And since I’m certain that is the scene I had in my mind, I can say that detail has been confirmed. Funny thing is, after the 40-50-(or more?) viewings I never put those two together. If I had been able to find more info about the reel change stats maybe I would have solved it a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away!) Also, I’ve always thought that transition was very awkward just as Han is put in the cell, with the abrupt music change, and subconsciously felt that something was missing there. On the flip side to that, I saw Jedi in 83 and 85 in theaters, but not again until 1990 when it was on NBC. The TV version was heavily edited and it wasn’t until 1993 when my friend came over with the home video release and we watched it that I remembered how much was cut. So it’s odd that I would remember something as short as a 3 second reel change, but not a good 15-20 minutes of scenes. I also can’t directly recall any bathroom trips until I was 8 or 9, and I must have taken thousands of those. Funny how memory works.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Your whole childhood was a lie.

[Cougartiger]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

And yeah, regardless of what Lucas thought of it at a certain point in time, Disney/Lucasfilm are in charge now and it seems they're going for conscripts over clones with the Stormtroopers.

The Clone Wars did fill in a few gaps left unexplained in the movies so Rebels could easily do a bit of the same, good point.

Actually, George Lucas is on record as saying there are NO clones in 4-6.The Emperor discontinued the clone program as he felt it no longer served any purpose, IIRC.

Also, Rebels HAS addressed this directly. The pilot showed the Empire recruting regular people and another episode has the main character going undercover as a recruit.

http://www.tvrage.com/star-wars-rebe...des/1065691192