Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Oh please, don't pretend like you don't know exactly what it means - way way too soon man. I just reported you, reason: durbingle.

Here I go googling the word "durbingle"...just in case I just offended some St. Bernards and Bing Crosby fans....

[KrugStillo]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Krug, anything Lucas produced under the banner of LucasFilm belongs to LucasFilm. He sold LucasFilm -- which shocked everybody -- but that sale wasn't oblique, we aren't all in the dark. Some are still in denial, and this happened three years ago.

Here's a quick flowchart, let's see if this sticks:

LucasFilm owns everything LucasFilm produced. Models, props, loops of film. Everything.
\ /
George Lucas is a diabetic and didn't feel up to making three more Star Wars films. George Lucas decided to retire, but wanted to pass the legacy on.
\ /
George Lucas was impressed with Bob Iger, and how Iger left Marvel and Pixar alone.
\ /
George Lucas felt comfortable selling LucasFilm to Disney under Iger, with Kathleen Kennedy taking over supervision of LucasFilm.
\ /
LucasFilm owns all the negatives and versions of the Star Wars films.
\ /
Disney is the Corporate Parent of LucasFilm, but they leave Pixar, Marvel, and LucasFilm alone to do their thing.


We good now?

Yeah, I guess so. The only real question now is if the original negatives to the originally released versions of the OT are in good enough condition for a restoration. Basically, if what George originally said about making a mess out of the negatives to do the special editions is true or just that he didn't want to say that he preserved the original versions the way they were. This I imagine we won't know until something is or isn't released. I do wonder though if Kathleen Kennedy will honor George's wishes about using the latest versions from this point on or if she will go with the money and essentially sell out her loyalty to a longtime companion. Of course that is something that we can only speculate on. Ugh. I think I've thought about this enough today. Funny thing is I don't really even care.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Yeah, I guess so. The only real question now is if the original negatives to the originally released versions of the OT are in good enough condition for a restoration. Basically, if what George originally said about making a mess out of the negatives to do the special editions is true or just that he didn't want to say that he preserved the original versions the way they were. This I imagine we won't know until something is or isn't released. I do wonder though if Kathleen Kennedy will honor George's wishes about using the latest versions from this point on or if she will go with the money and essentially sell out her loyalty to a longtime companion. Of course that is something that we can only speculate on. Ugh. I think I've thought about this enough today. Funny thing is I don't really even care.

The money will talk.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Not trying to argue with you but I have a hard time believing that George Lucas gave all his negatives to Disney, all deals aside. What filmmaker that owns his own work does that? If he did then I guess Disney needs to get on the ball and release the OT unaltered. There seems to be a lot of heresay regarding the Lucasfilm deal. Technically, the negatives and all were stored at the ranch where Lucas still lives. So did he pull a Kubrick and box up all his possessions and send them to Disney. Now granted Disney probably has the materials but I doubt that Lucas doesn't still have them himself as well. Who knows? It just seems weird that a person would hand over their lifes work to a huge corporation. Whatever. Honestly, I just want to see the movies I grew up with again in good condition. If it doesn't happen I guess I've already gotten over that.

That's what happens when you start a company, in essence he didn't "own" the films, his company did. When LucasFilm was sold to Disney, they took over the legal ownership of those negatives. If George kept them, he'd be in violation of the law.

[Panama Jack]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Yeah, I guess so. The only real question now is if the original negatives to the originally released versions of the OT are in good enough condition for a restoration. Basically, if what George originally said about making a mess out of the negatives to do the special editions is true or just that he didn't want to say that he preserved the original versions the way they were. This I imagine we won't know until something is or isn't released. I do wonder though if Kathleen Kennedy will honor George's wishes about using the latest versions from this point on or if she will go with the money and essentially sell out her loyalty to a longtime companion. Of course that is something that we can only speculate on. Ugh. I think I've thought about this enough today. Funny thing is I don't really even care.

What I personally want, in my own dreamworld, is for Lucasfilm (now that George is not involved) to go back and make one final definitive version of the special editions that fixes some of the most derided changes. (Han shoots first, Vader NOOO in ROTJ, etc).*

Then go back and have 2 acclaimed editors team up to completely re-edit the prequel trilogy for new special editions of those films. Release all 6 new versions in a boxed set to serve as the definitive and final canon. Include restored high quality copies of the UOT and the current Blu-ray versions of the prequel trilogy as bonus discs.

*If the rumor that Hayden will be in Ep VIII as Anakin's force ghost is true, then I would actually leave Hayden's force ghost in ROTJ for purposes of canon, BUT, when filming Ep VIII I would makeup him up to appear older and age appropriate, and then while filming that, have him redo his force ghost scene for ROTJ and have that be in the final definitive cut that I mentioned above.

[Geoff D]

Dude, I would LOVE that to happen, not so much the whole re-editing thing because the prequels are too broken for that, but to get the older Hayden to shoot a PROPER force ghost for Jedi instead of that weird-ass outtake which completely spoils it for me. (The change itself I don't mind, the execution of it is woefully bad however.)

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

Then go back and have 2 acclaimed editors team up to completely re-edit the prequel trilogy for new special editions of those films.

They'd be 10-15 minutes long each.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

What I personally want, in my own dreamworld, is for Lucasfilm (now that George is not involved) to go back and make one final definitive version of the special editions that fixes some of the most derided changes. (Han shoots first, Vader NOOO in ROTJ, etc).*

Then go back and have 2 acclaimed editors team up to completely re-edit the prequel trilogy for new special editions of those films. Release all 6 new versions in a boxed set to serve as the definitive and final canon. Include restored high quality copies of the OUT of the original trilogy and the current Blu-ray versions of the prequel trilogy as bonus discs.

*If the rumor that Hayden will be in Ep VIII as Anakin's force ghost is true, then I would actually leave Hayden's force ghost in ROTJ for purposes of canon, BUT, when filming Ep VIII I would makeup him up to appear older and age appropriate, and then while filming that, have him redo his force ghost scene for ROTJ and have that be in the final definitive cut that I mentioned above.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, I would LOVE that to happen, not so much the whole re-editing thing because the prequels are too broken for that, but to get the older Hayden to shoot a PROPER force ghost for Jedi instead of that weird-ass outtake which completely spoils it for me. (The change itself I don't mind, the execution of it is woefully bad however.)

There is definitely merit to the idea of going back and polishing up the special editions; refining some of the changes that weren't bad in concept but could be a bit better in terms of execution. My top three wants, one per film, would be a redone Jabba in A New Hope (making him look more like he does in Jedi), Ian McDiarmid in Empire V2 (this time with makeup closer to what he looked like in Jedi than Sith) and finally the Hayden fix you guys have already mentioned.

These versions should also take care of the lightsabers, garbage mattes and such. Some icing on the cake would be to make the more "half-assed" changes more consistent so they don't magically appear and disappear from one shot to the next (the windows in Cloud City and rocks in front of R2 for example).

[Geoff D]

Aye, a polished 'Final Cut' of each film would be great.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Aye, a polished 'Final Cut' of each film would be great.

[imsounoriginal]

Do we really need the Jabba scene in ANH? All it does is repeat the same info we get from the Han/Greedo scene. I'm all for this idea of cleaning up the Special Editions to make "definitive" versions, but if we're trying to improve these movies, that would mean deleting crap from Jedi's SE so why not do that for the Jabba scene in ANH, too.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Do we really need the Jabba scene in ANH? All it does is repeat the same info we get from the Han/Greedo scene. I'm all for this idea of cleaning up the Special Editions to make "definitive" versions, but if we're trying to improve these movies, that would mean deleting crap from Jedi's SE so why not do that for the Jabba scene in ANH, too.

This may be an unpopular opinion as I know there's a lot of dislike for that scene, but personally I like it. Besides, the point of this would be to present the "ultimate", most polished version of the special editions. The theatrical cuts should of course be made available as well, and those are the ones we'd go to if we didn't want to see Jabba in ANH and other changes.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Do we really need the Jabba scene in ANH? All it does is repeat the same info we get from the Han/Greedo scene. I'm all for this idea of cleaning up the Special Editions to make "definitive" versions

Releasing the "definitive" editions of the first films would be simply releasing the OT unaltered.

None of the SE tinkering has added anything at all, the opposite actually.

[Geoff D]

I like the Jabba scene too, as you say Mecha if they're doing the originals then why not also work on a final polish for the SEs using the restored originals as the basis?

Then we really could get a Blade Runner style package: Final Cut given its own disc from a new transfer, theatrical version given its own disc from a new transfer, 1997/2004/2011 SEs branched onto one disc from existing HD masters.

[dvdmike]

I could live with that

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I could live with that

I think most people could, it's about being given the choice instead of pretending that the originals are "lost" or whatever bullcrap Lucas came out with.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Then we really could get a Blade Runner style package: Final Cut given its own disc from a new transfer, theatrical version given its own disc from a new transfer, 1997/2004/2011 SEs branched onto one disc from existing HD masters.

That would absolutely confuse the shit out of the vast majority of consumers. Star Wars has a much wider appeal than Blade Runner, Blade Runner's following has always been cultish and generally knowledgeable about the nuances that separate the different cuts. The average Star Wars fan is going to look at the shelf, see the "original" trilogy of SW that's already been released on BD, then see another release with the "Final" cuts, the "Original" cuts, and then several different "special edition" cuts.... and then turn right around and walk away.

It makes no sense. Start with baby steps. The Special Editions are already out on Blu-Ray. Now, release the Original Editions (the very fact that we're still arguing about the merits of releasing the original cuts of some of the most important films of all time is absurd), then you can talk about releasing an edition with 513 cuts of the films.

[disneywildcat]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

None of the SE tinkering has added anything at all, the opposite actually.

Well, the least hated change is having Ian Mcdiarmid portray the Emperor in The Empire Strikes Back SE. I don't really mind Boba Fett's voice being replaced either (it wasn't the voice of Jeremy Bulloch anyway in the original).

I don't mind if the originals are released. Although it would be nice to see some things removed from the SE.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

That would absolutely confuse the shit out of the vast majority of consumers. Star Wars has a much wider appeal than Blade Runner, Blade Runner's following has always been cultish and generally knowledgeable about the nuances that separate the different cuts. The average Star Wars fan is going to look at the shelf, see the "original" trilogy of SW that's already been released on BD, then see another release with the "Final" cuts, the "Original" cuts, and then several different "special edition" cuts.... and then turn right around and walk away.

It makes no sense. Start with baby steps. The Special Editions are already out on Blu-Ray. Now, release the Original Editions (the very fact that we're still arguing about the merits of releasing the original cuts of some of the most important films of all time is absurd), then you can talk about releasing an edition with 513 cuts of the films.

Well, that's why they did a separate Final Cut release of Blade Runner, with the 5-disc set for the completists and super fans, and the EXACT same reasoning would apply in SW's case: release a cheap standalone single movie set for the masses (Final Cut or theatrical, the average Joe won't care), supa dupa boxset for the uber nerds.

[dvdmike]

The original cuts will only be in a boxset I bet, no way they solo release them.
Now that would confuse the market