Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Then the movie comes out and it's a completely different character, which felt like it kinda rendered his introduction in the show meaningless and left many fans (a teenage me included!) disappointed that this badass Jedi killing machine from the cartoon was suddenly a coughing coward.

The cartoon explained why he was coughing. Also, this badass killing machine ran when confronted with superior firepower.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What's so screwed up about the Leia thing is that Lucas actually put something in there that fans could've hung some kind of head-canon on: Padme reaches out and touches one of the babies which might've conferred some sort of Force imprint onto them...but it's Luke that she touches, not Leia!

You don't need magic Force touch ( which I presume is from the same school as Superman's memory-erasing kiss ):

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Arawn

You don't need magic Force touch ( which I presume is from the same school as Superman's memory-erasing kiss ):

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

Of course you don't, but how come Luke - who is so much stronger with the Force thanks to his training - doesn't get so much as a glimpse of his mother while Leia's got a specific imprint of Padme being "kind, but sad" left on her memory? The little touch on the baby's cheek would've been the perfect way to do that IMO and is in no way as stupid as the kiss from Superman because a major plot point doesn't hinge on it, for a start. It's just yet another in a line of little things that Lucas couldn't be arsed to explain when he made the prequels.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Of course you don't, but how come Luke - who is so much stronger with the Force thanks to his training - doesn't get so much as a glimpse of his mother while Leia's got a specific imprint of Padme being "kind, but sad" left on her memory?

Well, how are Luke and Leia different?

And it's worth noting that "kind, but sad" doesn't really describe Padme at the time of Leia's birth...

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What's so screwed up about the Leia thing is that Lucas actually put something in there that fans could've hung some kind of head-canon on: Padme reaches out and touches one of the babies which might've conferred some sort of Force imprint onto them...but it's Luke that she touches, not Leia! And I know that they're twins, but should each baby have the exact same birthmark too? And then there's having to go back and film Obi-Wan retrieving Anakin's lightsaber in a pick-up because they clean forgot it during principal photography. Oh, George. Continuity was never his strong point.

But I still like Sith better than Jedi. The OT movie has the cooler moments but the PT movie has the more satisfying narrative, Sith feels like a film that has its own story to tell whereas Jedi is little more than a giant third act.

I on the other hand wish Sith was more of a giant third act. Clones only began to touch on Anakin's dark side, leaving the third film in the trilogy to get a lot done in 2 hours and 20 minutes. Anakin becoming Vader just doesn't feel convincing to me, and I think it would've helped massively if it'd been a more gradual transformation spread out over all three films.

Originally Posted by Arawn

The cartoon explained why he was coughing. Also, this badass killing machine ran when confronted with superior firepower.

I know, but while I realize it's about the only way they could explain it, it felt kinda dumb to me. Not that it matters now anyway since the '03 Clone Wars hasn't been considered canon for years. Also, I got over that initial "he isn't the badass Jedi killer from the show!" disappointment long ago. I eventually realized I wouldn't want something quite that over the top in the films anyway because it wouldn't really make sense for a non-force user to effortlessly slaughter Jedi left and right like that.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I on the other hand wish Sith was more of a giant third act. Clones only began to touch on Anakin's dark side, leaving the third film in the trilogy to get a lot done in 2 hours and 20 minutes. Anakin becoming Vader just doesn't feel convincing to me, and I think it would've helped massively if it'd been a more gradual transformation spread out over all three films.

This is literally Anakin's character arc in the prequels:
1) Good-hearted little kid.
2) He whines a lot then does something bad.
3) Does something bad. Whines a lot, then does something REALLY bad. Whines some more.

The End.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The Phantom Menace is the one that's aged the best of the prequels. It's got at least two things going for it that the other prequels don't have: Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Maul is cool but so underused, it's really Neeson's Qui-Gon that really gives it the edge.

Sadly, Attack of the Clones is the worst of the Saga. Anakin's Turn in Revenge of the Sith is handled pretty poorly, IMO. And that hurts it immensely. After first seeing Episode 1, I never would have thought it would turn out to be the best of the Prequel Trilogy.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Of course you don't, but how come Luke - who is so much stronger with the Force thanks to his training - doesn't get so much as a glimpse of his mother while Leia's got a specific imprint of Padme being "kind, but sad" left on her memory? The little touch on the baby's cheek would've been the perfect way to do that IMO and is in no way as stupid as the kiss from Superman because a major plot point doesn't hinge on it, for a start. It's just yet another in a line of little things that Lucas couldn't be arsed to explain when he made the prequels.

You do know children respond to stimuli while still in the womb?


Lord only knows what a Force-sensitive fetus would pick up.

[rickah88]

Six pages of posts, thought there might have been some announcement news...what was I thinking.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

The Phantom Menace is the one that's aged the best of the prequels. It's got at least two things going for it that the other prequels don't have: Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Maul is cool but so underused, it's really Neeson's Qui-Gon that really gives it the edge.

+1. The story has aged the best precisely because of how disconnected it is with the rest of the overarching story, and the (relatively) less reliance on so much CGI has helped it become the best looking of the three movies, too (except for that DNR on the BD...). And like you mention, it's got two of my personal favorite Star Wars characters in Jinn and Maul. I've said it elsewhere but Eps. I and IV are the ones I watch most often by far.

[rainbowbattlekid]

all the movies ranked:


the empire strikes back
star wars

return of the jedi
the force awakens

[zafisher94]

Like a few of you pointed out, my biggest issue with the prequels are the disjointed story arcs. Phantom Menace (which I think is the weakest film in the saga) seems more like an unnecessary prologue. As much as Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul are excellent characters, the uneven pacing of the 3 films is a disservice to their roles.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Well, how are Luke and Leia different?

And it's worth noting that "kind, but sad" doesn't really describe Padme at the time of Leia's birth...

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You do know children respond to stimuli while still in the womb?


Lord only knows what a Force-sensitive fetus would pick up.

Heh. TFA has an inanimate object managing to convey a whirlwind of thoughts and emotions and echoes of the Force when Rey touched it, so is Leia picking up her "images [and] feelings" (while Luke got nada despite sharing that same womb ) from a brief touch from her mother so completely and utterly far fetched? And I'd say that Padme was very much kind but sad but when she died, she's a good person but was left heartbroken by Anakin's betrayal.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh. TFA has an inanimate object managing to convey a whirlwind of thoughts and emotions and echoes of the Force when Rey touched it, so is Leia picking up her "images [and] feelings" (while Luke got nada despite sharing that same womb ) from a brief touch from her mother so completely and utterly far fetched? And I'd say that Padme was very much kind but sad but when she died, she's a good person but was left heartbroken by Anakin's betrayal.

But TFA used real sets and was shot on film and had nothing to do with George Lucas, so it's automatically better. Keep up, Geoff

[Geoff D]

You're right, my bad.

[MechaGodzilla]

I just go with the idea that different Force-sensitive individuals may be naturally more skilled in different aspects of the force. Some are especially skilled with a lightsaber, some the more "magic"-like powers; perhaps Leia is just more of a "seer" than Luke.

[dubious]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I just go with the idea that different Force-sensitive individuals may be naturally more skilled in different aspects of the force. Some are especially skilled with a lightsaber, some the more "magic"-like powers; perhaps Leia is just more of a "seer" than Luke.

Oh great, so now we got gender force stereotypes. You think Leia and Ray just sit around all day force folding laundry and force stirring the pot. At least those dirty diapers can change themselves.

[Caseyscott]

We now are forced to twist ourselves into a pretzel explaining away a major continuity error.

That scene in Jedi where Leia talks about her mother is important because it's a relatable event that tells us something about both her and Luke. It humanizes their plights and if it's just a "force touch" that's something that the audience has no frame of emotional reference for and it completely deflates the impact of the exchange.

[dubious]

Been a while so I forget, but it was never established Leia and Luke were twins in the originals, just siblings. Fisher obviously a couple years older, passing as an older sister that may have known their mother for a few short years.

If they were equally aged twins, then I would have to figure at some point, the real Leia was killed, an elaborate memory transfer was conducted, the Oreganos were wealthy, so this was a possibility. Leia II was a couple years older, possibly a replicant-type flesh and blood android, or cyborg perhaps? We'd have to cut her hands off to really be sure.

[rainbowbattlekid]

almost positive Obi-Wan says they're twins in RotJ

[dubious]

Originally Posted by rainbowbattlekid

almost positive Obi-Wan says they're twins in RotJ

Yeah, you're probably right. But obi-wan was also just a hallucination from shrooming on Dagobah... so?