Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[WhySoBlu?]

Even though it's beating a dead horse, this is - I believe - the original source for the idea that Lucas regained ownership of A New Hope in exchange for Fox getting to distribute the prequels:

Lucas owns the entire franchise except for the original film, which Fox financed for about $10 million. Though executives from Fox and Lucas' San Rafael, Calif.-based Lucasfilm Ltd. declined to elaborate on most specifics of the deal, one source hinted that in exchange for a much-lower-than-usual (likely less than 10%) distribution fee on the films plus the rights to debut "Episode I" on its Fox TV network, Fox gave Lucas the rights to the original "Star Wars," making his empire complete.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Even though it's beating a dead horse, this is - I believe - the original source for the idea that Lucas regained ownership of A New Hope in exchange for Fox getting to distribute the prequels:

Yeah, that's the LA Times and I've been saying it for years, and you'd expect Fox to want to keep that quiet, because they just played their hand about how low a percentage they'd take. Fun and games, man. Fun and games.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

And I can certainly get behind that. I may be defending my minority opinion that AOTC is my favorite prequel, but NONE of the prequels can touch the Original Trilogy. That's in a league of its own. Cloud City is indeed gorgeous -- particularly the shot when the Falcon maneuvers up beneath the dangling Luke. However, I think the single most gorgeous shot in all of STAR WARS is the Executor approaching Hoth, flanked by two Star Destroyers and two TIE Fighters. Perfection.

Also, the musical score for the Cloud City scene is just incredibly majestic. That whole sequence is one of my very favorite moments of the OT.

Empire's score in general is just amazing and hands down my favorite of the SW movies.

[crissrudd4554]

Yeah Anakins transition was rather weak and Vader's 'Nooo' at the end only makes it worse. The downgrading of Padme from a strong leader type to a sappy girl in the background who eventually dies in childbirth was a pretty disappointing closure to that character.

That said Sith is definitely my favorite of the Prequels. No question. Nice to see some positive feedback for Clones but that's still probably my least favorite film not only of the Prequels but of the Saga. I don't hate it mind you but ehh just wasn't a big winner for me. As most said the big battle on Geonosis to the end of the movie I'm fine with but everything else before that is sort of hit or miss for reasons that are pretty obvious. The scene at the dinner table where Anakin floats the fruit to Padme is somewhat cringe worthy. Even when I saw that film in theatres at age 9 I felt that scene was very out of place for a SW film.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

It's our solemn duty, Geoff D ...



Distribution rights. Not copyright. There's a huge difference. Lucasfilm Ltd. can do what they like and 20th Century Fox get a percentage of the profits as they are the distributor.

There is no ownership issue. Everything is owned by Lucasfilm Ltd. and their parent company.

It's actually in Fox's best interest that Lucasfilm do rerelease and re-issue the films over the next 3 years, they're basically getting money for nothing (as the restoration costs will at Lucasfilm's expense) and with the original Star Wars, Fox will be getting a cut forever.

Remember that for the theatrical and home video releases Fox are in the exact same position currently as they are with Star Wars as they are with Episodes I-III and Episodes V and VI, but only until 2020. Then Fox's theatrical and home video distribution deal ends (they don't have non-theatrical distribution deals for those episodes at all, just Star Wars).

And we've already seen fruits of those deals, with a new box set last year and digital copies been released worldwide.

Fantastic point.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by WestMan

Adding CGI characters of actors who have been dead for over 20 years is far more strange.

If Lucas did that, people would still be complaining about it. But Disney did it, so it is "okay".

Amazing how things get rationalizes....

The CGI human characters in Rogue One also took me out of the film because they looked horrible in my opinion. Especially when talking.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Yeah, I'm way out of step. SITH is by far my least favorite STAR WARS movie. That moment of Anakin's "turn" is so badly bobbled, I have a hard time forgiving it. It's what the whole prequel trilogy is about, and is so freaking terrible (in my opinion) and rushed... gack, it pains me every time -- far more than any wince-inducing romantic dialogue or Jar Jar shenanigans. If that "turn" sequence had been done better, I may never have gone through my ten years of utter Prequel denial and detestation.

The actual 'turn' scene itself never quite plays properly but that's the result of having been reshot from the original where Anakin basically said "oh, alright then" and was actually present during the Mace vs Sidious fight, hence the shots of Palps using Anakin's lightsaber which are still visible in the final film. So as bad as you guys play it up to be, it could've been a whole lot worse. Still, I love it when he slumps back and exclaims "what have I done?!?" because he knows that there's no going back, he's feeding on his fear because he knows that Palps will kill him where he stands if he instantly renounces the dark side so if he's to save Padme then what can he do apart from carry out his new master's commands?

Something that makes it work for me is how twisted up Anakin is during the film because he's got EVERYONE leaning on him: the Jedi want him to spy on Palps, only Palps gets there first and puts him on the Jedi Council knowing that they won't accept him as a Master thus fostering more anger and resentment, and even Padme asks him to have a word with Palpatine to "stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume".

Anakin gets pulled this way and that, they all want a piece of him and with the visions of Padme's death clouding his mind (perhaps instigated by Palps, given how he mentions giving Anakin the power to "save his wife from certain death") he picks the most selfish path possible. I know people will moan about him killing the kids until the end of time and it's in pretty poor taste, I agree, BUT it's also set up by his massacre of the Sand People in Clones, where Lucas made sure to have Anakin very pointedly say that he killed "not just the women, but the children too".

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The actual 'turn' scene itself never quite plays properly but that's the result of having been reshot from the original where Anakin basically said "oh, alright then" and was actually present during the Mace vs Sidious fight, hence the shots of Palps using Anakin's lightsaber which are still visible in the final film. So as bad as you guys play it up to be, it could've been a whole lot worse. Still, I love it when he slumps back and exclaims "what have I done?!?" because he knows that there's no going back, he's feeding on his fear because he knows that Palps will kill him where he stands if he instantly renounces the dark side so if he's to save Padme then what can he do apart from carry out his new master's commands?

Something that makes it work for me is how twisted up Anakin is during the film because he's got EVERYONE leaning on him: the Jedi want him to spy on Palps, only Palps gets there first and puts him on the Jedi Council knowing that they won't accept him as a Master thus fostering more anger and resentment, and even Padme asks him to have a word with Palpatine to "stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume".

Anakin gets pulled this way and that, they all want a piece of him and with the visions of Padme's death clouding his mind (perhaps instigated by Palps, given how he mentions giving Anakin the power to "save his wife from certain death") he picks the most selfish path possible. I know people will moan about him killing the kids until the end of time and it's in pretty poor taste, I agree, BUT it's also set up by his massacre of the Sand People in Clones, where Lucas made sure to have Anakin very pointedly say that he killed "not just the women, but the children too".

And the Jedi will imprison and possibly kill him regardless of what he does. Mace just said "He's too dangerous to be left alive" about Palpatine. Other members of the Council might feel the same about the Chosen One who just killed a Jedi Master. And even if they spare him, they already said they won't do anything to help Padme and that he should just accept her death

Great assessment of Anakin's dilemma. He was groomed by both sides for opposing agendas for 13 years. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders with everything he cares about at stake. Even Luke may have crumbled under that kind of pressure

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by thegoat

For another example, I don't see anybody talking about how embarrassingly bad the CGI was in early Pixar films. You can't tell me that, objectively, the animation even in the droid factory sequence looked less realistic than a lot of the animation in Finding Nemo or Monster's Inc, but it gets trashed anyway because the sequence was extraneous, didn't flow well, featured some poor compositing, and so on.

Attack of the Clones is a live-action movie so it matters if the animation looks realistic. Finding Nemo and Monsters, Inc. are animation movies so it doesn't matter if the animation doesn't look realistic. It would probably look weird if it did look realistic in those movies.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Anakin gets pulled this way and that, they all want a piece of him and with the visions of Padme's death clouding his mind (perhaps instigated by Palps, given how he mentions giving Anakin the power to "save his wife from certain death") he picks the most selfish path possible.

I was thinking about Palpatine's line, "it seems in your anger you killed her" or words to those affect and I wonder if Anakin did reach out with the Force when he was transformed into Vader and kill Padme? It would kind of make sense the way it was cut. All his rage and hatred get sent Padme's way and end her life.

Vader is one of the only Sith we've seen that can kill people at a distance, I can't remember any others? I think the notion that Palpatine can keep people alive through the Force has been explored in the past.

[Lionel Horsepackage]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I genuinely like Phantom Menace even if it is too disconnected from the main saga for my liking, Clones is half an hour of pure awesome swaddled in an hour and a bit of pure shite, and Sith (my favourite of the three) shows us prolonged glimpses of what these prequels COULD have been if George hadn't spent two whole movies clearing his pipes.

To be sure, if you check out that early 1976 novelization of A New Hope, much of The Phantom Menace is laid out right there in the opening prologue, which basically describe how the corporations and trade factions gained a chokehold over the galaxy (i.e., the Naboo blockade, etc.) to the point where Senator Palpatine runs for office and is elected president on the basis of promising to "reform" all of those corrupt institutions, but instead, once in office, turns a complete 180 and wipes out the Jedi through "treachery and deception" (the Clone Wars, as we later see onscreen), ultimately declaring himself Emperor.

All that stuff in the first prequel movie is laid out right there in those opening pages, and for myself, at least, I was thrilled to see Lucas actually using that backstory from the ANH novelization in TPM. Indeed, Lucas's introduction to the 1995 hardcover edition of the book refers to this directly:

As this special hardcover edition of the original Star Wars novel goes to press, I am once again immersed in writing new episodes of the saga. It fills me with a sense of déjà vu, because the outline for the new trilogy of prequels is actually contained in the first two pages of this book, the prologue. I suppose I have come full circle as I return to the beginning and start again.
- pp. 1-2

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by thegoat

And the Jedi will imprison and possibly kill him regardless of what he does. Mace just said "He's too dangerous to be left alive" about Palpatine. Other members of the Council might feel the same about the Chosen One who just killed a Jedi Master. And even if they spare him, they already said they won't do anything to help Padme and that he should just accept their deaths

Great assessment of Anakin's dilemma. He was groomed by both sides for opposing agendas for 13 years. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders with everything he cares about at stake. Even Luke may have crumbled under that kind of pressure

Aye, if Luke had been raised in Anakin's circumstances then his own outlook may have been very different. But it's precisely because Luke hasn't had a decade of Jedi dogma rammed down his throat that he's able to embrace his emotions as part of his Jedi persona instead of constantly battling with them as Anakin is. People always reference how quickly Anakin turns against the Jedi but by marrying Padme in secret he's already shown how much contempt he has for their rules, and it's no secret that Mace deeply distrusts him, so when the time comes Anakin gives in to his fear and anger and frustration to destroy the Jedi in the name of saving the one he loves.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lionel Horsepackage

To be sure, if you check out that early 1976 novelization of A New Hope, much of The Phantom Menace is laid out right there in the opening prologue, which basically describe how the corporations and trade factions gained a chokehold over the galaxy (i.e., the Naboo blockade, etc.) to the point where Senator Palpatine runs for office and is elected president on the basis of promising to "reform" all of those corrupt institutions, but instead, once in office, turns a complete 180 and wipes out the Jedi through "treachery and deception" (the Clone Wars, as we later see onscreen), ultimately declaring himself Emperor.

All that stuff in the first prequel movie is laid out right there in those opening pages, and for myself, at least, I was thrilled to see Lucas actually using that backstory from the ANH novelization in TPM. Indeed, Lucas's introduction to the 1995 hardcover edition of the book refers to this directly:

I'm happy for you but having all that stuff there still doesn't make Menace feel any more connected to the movies that follow it. Anakin going from this chirpy mop-topped sproglet to a stroppy, murderous teen from one movie to the next just doesn't do it for me, nor does the switch from anamorphic 35mm to spherical digital HD. Phantom Menace still has a very 'old shool' kinda vibe to it and the jump to the anodyne digital cleanliness of Clones is extremely jarring.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by chip75

Vader is one of the only Sith we've seen that can kill people at a distance, I can't remember any others? I think the notion that Palpatine can keep people alive through the Force has been explored in the past.

Palpatine Force-choked Dooku from a great distance of many light-years away on a different planet.

[Lionel Horsepackage]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm happy for you but having all that stuff there still doesn't make Menace feel any more connected to the movies that follow it. Anakin going from this chirpy mop-topped sproglet to a stroppy, murderous teen from one movie to the next just doesn't do it for me, nor does the switch from anamorphic 35mm to spherical digital HD. Phantom Menace still has a very 'old shool' kinda vibe to it and the jump to the anodyne digital cleanliness of Clones is extremely jarring.

I was just pointing out there that, love it or hate it, all of the corporate corruption-stuff from TPM was actually planned by Lucas right from the very beginning as part of where his vision of the saga was originating from (in terms of backstory), as opposed to the technical aspects you mention (which, FWIW, I do very much agree with). I think he did a decent job of connecting the two ends of the storyline, considering where everything had to ultimately end up (Palpatine being the key link, and series MVP to boot).

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Palpatine Force-choked Dooku from a great distance of many light-years away on a different planet.

Which leads to more questions about how he couldn't find Yoda or Obi-Wan for 19 years between III and IV, unless he just assumed they were dead and didn't bother trying to find them via Force Sonar or something.

[kemcha]

That sounds like an intriguing idea, about using the force to seek out other "force-sensitives" but that it doesn't quite work that way. Ever since I saw the first film in 1977 in theaters (my parents took me and my brother to see the first film when it was first released in the summer of 1977), George Lucas set the force abilities so that the force-wielder could only sense another force-user if they were in close proximity.

For example, in A New Hope, Darth Vader senses Obi-Wan's presence when he's standing on the perimeter just outside the Millenium Falcon, as the Stormtroopers are preparing to board her when it's captured on the Death Star (check out the scene in the Death Star's hangar bay).

Near the end of Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader senses Luke as the Millenium Falcon is soaring away from Cloud City and trying to escape the fleet of Star Destroyers. The Millenium Falcon was flying by the Executor (Darth Vader's Star Destroyer command ship, as they were escaping from Cloud City).

Finally, in Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader, again, senses Luke's presence when the Rebels use the Imperial shuttle to land on Endor. Even Luke himself can sense Vader on the Executor, when they are heading for Endor's moon. So, a trained Jedi in RotJ, Luke could also sense the proximity of Vader. When Vader reports to Emperor Palpatine, the Emperor says "odd how you can sense and I could not".

I believe that force-users, if they are properly trained, can only sense another force-user, if they are in close proximity, even though the limit of that proximity has never been revealed in any books, novels, comics or the films. Even Palpatine's own abilities are proof that using the force to sense another force-user requires a proximity to the other force-user. It's not limitless.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Which leads to more questions about how he couldn't find Yoda or Obi-Wan for 19 years between III and IV, unless he just assumed they were dead and didn't bother trying to find them via Force Sonar or something.

Well Yoda purposely hid in a force filled planet full of lifeforms so that he could not be detected.

As for Obi Wan, his force powers aren't as strong as Yoda, so I guess laying low in a desert planet in the outer rim was good enough to escape being sensed by either Vader or Palpatine.

[WestMan]

Is Palpatine sensing Vader on another planet even canon now?

I liked The Phantom Menace a lot, but it is more of a prologue then a first chapter in the Star Wars Saga.

It might be somewhat disconnected from the rest of the movies, but it also shows how great of a planner Palpatine was.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Class316

Well Yoda purposely hid in a force filled planet full of lifeforms so that he could not be detected.

As for Obi Wan, his force powers aren't as strong as Yoda, so I guess laying low in a desert planet in the outer rim was good enough to escape being sensed by either Vader or Palpatine.

Yeah Obi-Wan was smart, he knew how much Vader hates sand.