Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[frogmort]

Just in case someone hasn't seen this new extended version yet:

"SEAGULLS! (Stop It Now)" -- A Bad Lip Reading of The Empire Strikes Back - YouTube

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I never complained that the prequels were nothing like the originals, and never will, but I sure hate TFA.

[Show spoiler]It's just awful, and exists soley to please the OT fanboys with more X-Wings and TIE fighters, the most pathetic villain ever, yet another desert planet, worlds that look like Earth, Han Solo and Co.: We are home....and worst of all: No SW magic, no SW feel, worst SW score....abysmal.

Worst Star Wars score??? The theme music for Rey is beautiful, especially the slower version at the end of the track called "The Scavenger" on the soundtrack. And the music during the end of the film on the mountain gave me chills! I also love the movie. Oh well, to each his/her own!

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by El_Fez

Well, if you mean whiny emo temper tantrums as depth, then yes. On the other hand, it wasn't interesting to me. He was a very poor bad guy.

We only find Kylo Ren interesting because of his family's legacy and we're just all curious to see where it might go with him. But, you're not wrong in your assessment of Ren. He is definitely Anakin Skywalker's grandson.

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Lionel Horsepackage

And it's absolutely bizarre how these days George Lucas now doesn't get any of the credit for his achievements -- there's now a massive, weird effort underway to de-legitimize him and make him out to be a guy who simply lucked into an idea that other, supposedly more-talented people were able to keep him away from long enough to make three good films out of, which is totally false.

I guess it's because of the sheer stupidity he's displayed over and over again since 1997. There's also the fact that he stopped directing after Star Wars, giving the impression that he didn't want to be discovered. And considering how incompetently written and directed the prequels are...

At the moment, popular culture holds Lucas as an egotistical figure of ridicule and fun, and it's all because he directed a few films some people without a sense of proportion didn't like.

Actually, it has a lot more to do with him puking his CGI over the originals (two of which he didn't even direct, by the way).

[Shin sam]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Timothy Zahn had it that Yoda had fought a "Dark Jedi" at the site.

Didn't the cave turn out to be a ship too? I can't remember.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

I guess it's because of the sheer stupidity he's displayed over and over again since 1997. There's also the fact that he stopped directing after Star Wars, giving the impression that he didn't want to be discovered. And considering how incompetently written and directed the prequels are...


Actually, it has a lot more to do with him puking his CGI over the originals (two of which he didn't even direct, by the way).

What does him not directing change that fact that Lucas was instrumental in the story telling and thus the entire creation?

The best movie out of the OT is Star Wars without question. The numbers continue to show it, and he will always reign supreme in my book. I feel that Lucas was laying it down proper with Episode III and who knows where he would have went after that, had fanboys not been such cry babies.

When I read things like Kylo Ren showing more depth than Darth Vader in a New Hope I felt so torn. I laughed uncontrollably, than I got serious and said wait, there are people that believe this? *shudder*.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

The best movie out of the OT is Star Wars without question. The numbers continue to show it...

Huh? Empire has been the fan-favourite for a while now.

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

What does him not directing change that fact that Lucas was instrumental in the story telling and thus the entire creation?

I don't believe he wasn't instrumental. But he's a hack who doesn't care about the very authorship of a film, hiring other directors to direct his movies for him. He views movies as products, not art.

[rexcrk]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how The Force Awakens is a rehash of A New Hope.

Yes, there are a lot of similarities, no one would deny that. But it's not the shot-for-shot "remake" that people are making it out to be.

Return of the Jedi is quite similar to A New Hope also but people aren't crying "remake!"

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Huh? Empire has been the fan-favourite for a while now.

Not this fan. I guess according to the rest of the world they must not be fans either.

I agree that just like the Godfather II there is this snooty cult belief that fanboys think they speak for the majority. Yet the facts don't support the ideology.

Empire is a kick ass movie without question, but only in the confines of building on the greatness that was Star Wars before.

But if you go to the tale of the tape Star Wars trumps in pretty much every regard. You just can't beat an original idea and the characters are just far more interesting and iconic. Empire never stood a chance.

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

I don't believe he wasn't instrumental. But he's a hack who doesn't care about the very authorship of a film, hiring other directors to direct his movies for him. He views movies as products, not art.

Lucas isn't a "hack". Just because someone chooses not be involved with inferior sequels doesn't mean he longer cares about the story. Sometimes the way to be better at presenting your material is to go with letting someone else take over the reigns...because it is a losing battle trying to beat the original. You can in most cases, have someone else do their best and you just might come closer with a fresh outlook and less interference.

However, I think if Lucas had no interference the world truly never saw his full capability as a young man with drive. Although him being sensitive, I think he may have broke down anyway. That world of leaving him alone is a pipe dream.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Not this fan. I guess according to the rest of the world they must not be fans either.

I agree that just like the Godfather II there is this snooty cult belief that fanboys think they speak for the majority. Yet the facts don't support the ideology.

Empire is a kick ass movie without question, but only in the confines of building on the greatness that was Star Wars before.

But if you go to the tale of the tape Star Wars trumps in pretty much every regard. You just can't beat an original idea and the characters are just far more interesting and iconic. Empire never stood a chance.

Lolwut. According to your ideology, no sequel can ever be superior to the original. Yes, they have to build upon the foundations of the predecessor, but better is better.

Originally Posted by rexcrk

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how The Force Awakens is a rehash of A New Hope.

Yes, there are a lot of similarities, no one would deny that. But it's not the shot-for-shot "remake" that people are making it out to be.

Return of the Jedi is quite similar to A New Hope also but people aren't crying "remake!"

Nobody's calling it a shot-for-shot remake but yes, it's got a shit load of similarities and follows a lot of the same story beats. For a brand new entry in the franchise which you would expect to expand on the mythology, it was disappointingly derivative.

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Lucas isn't a "hack". Just because someone chooses not be involved with inferior sequels doesn't mean he longer cares about the story. Sometimes the way to be better at presenting your material is to go with letting someone else take over the reigns...because it is a losing battle trying to beat the original. You can in most cases, have someone else do their best and you just might come closer with a fresh outlook and less interference.

What do you have to say about Indiana Jones, Willow, etc.?

[kwisatzhaderach]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

I don't believe he wasn't instrumental. But he's a hack who doesn't care about the very authorship of a film, hiring other directors to direct his movies for him. He views movies as products, not art.

You know nothing about Lucas. Do a little studying up before spouting garbage on the internet.

[Nicolawicz]

Aww, is the little fanboy pissed?

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by GxyExpress999

Princess Leia's Theme played by the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra - YouTube

I was there that night. It was the perfet Summer night, and they played this, the Imperial March with light show, the Force Theme. Simply incredible atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

I guess it's because of the sheer stupidity he's displayed over and over again since 1997. There's also the fact that he stopped directing after Star Wars, giving the impression that he didn't want to be discovered. And considering how incompetently written and directed the prequels are...

Actually, it has a lot more to do with him puking his CGI over the originals (two of which he didn't even direct, by the way).

Goerge Lucas has done more for modern day cinema than anyone else, so you may want to think about what you say or write about him first.

Seriously, the lack of respect this amazingly talented and visionary man receives is just shocking. Truly disgusting.

He has always been a risk taker and followed his heart and intuition.

ILM, Pixar, THX, Edit Droid, Skywalker Sound, Lucasfilm, Lucas Arts, etc.

THX-1138
American Graffiti
The Star Wars Saga
The Indiana Jones Franchise

What have YOU done?

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Goerge Lucas has done more for modern day cinema than anyone else, so you may want to think about what you say or write about him first.

I'd say he practically ruined cinema with his digital video and CGI, actually.

[JasonHensley]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

I'd say he practically ruined cinema with his digital video and CGI, actually.

And that would be only your extremely stupid opinion.

[reneeatworld]

Since we are bringing up old arguments again, I'm gonna say it again. It's an unpopular opinion, but I truly feel that The Force Awakens feels too 'Disney.' The cheesy moments, the way the film was shot, it just screams Disney. I'm not saying there anything wrong with it, I'm just saying the movie feels more 'Disney' than 'Stars Wars' than I'm accustomed to.

[Nicolawicz]

I'd say Episodes II and III look like video-shot fan films. The Force Awakens feels much more 'Star Wars' than those awful prequels.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Lolwut. According to your ideology, no sequel can ever be superior to the original. Yes, they have to build upon the foundations of the predecessor, but better is better.

You seem to be misunderstanding my point of view. When I say you can't beat an original idea (assuming it is successfully executed) I am using a generalization. Of course if you follow the thought process to its conclusion, a well done sequel can have original ideas that make it stand apart from the original so much that it is such a different experience that it actually trumps the original idea.

However, it is at that point that I say, but then is it truly a sequel?

Aliens to me is such a different movie. However, I still like the original better, and most movies that saw massive success have not been beaten by their sequels...even if by box office (although I would state in those examples, that that the market had changed and one must put the successes in proper context like say Mad Max being a breakout indie movie vs the Road Warrior which was much more of a mainstream push) they are.

In the case of Star Wars is not even close.

Lets break it down.

Empire original themes vs Star Wars original theme NOT EVEN CLOSE

Star Wars had its share of questionable acting, but nothing remotely close to the "NOOOOO". I still wake up with a cold sweat nightmare at that one.

Peter Cushing....need I say more?

Princess Leia, way hotter.

Han Solo, with all his flying trickery in Empire, I think he was incredibly sanitized and he did not fit his original character. In my original movie without the sequels, nothing beats him shooting under the table, NOTHING. (notice I didn't say he shot "first"...for the ones that get it).

Luke vs Darth, Darth vs Obi...uh are you kidding?

We go from "do you think a guy like me" to ..."she showed her true feelings"...

Speaking of which, we have a serious love triangle complete with whining smitten Luke...then we get this "Leia hear me now" bologna. I still don't like thinking of them as brother and sister. I like it better that she is a spunky princess, end of story. Is there signs of force capability..absolutely, but it is left with a mythology that is exploited in the second movie.

Jawas with land rovers, the Cantina Bar, the first look of the death star, light speed...ok there are ATAT's and Cloud City and Dagobah (always sounded like a place in brooklyn to me. lol), but if you get right down to it, Empire still has its fair share of rehash. Star Wars did it first, and did it better.

What is gone, the sarcasm, the edge...but most importantly those burning smoking bodies that I will never forget.

Sure Vader choked a few people, but compared to that poor sap on the Rebel freight complete with hanging limbs or the Senator "the ultimate power"....call me crazy, but I miss that british influence.

I could go on and on. Empire is sanitized plain and simple. It is just like Princess Leia wearing pants, it is so PC and overdone with sequel syndrome, that YUP it only stands as a second place...which isn't a terrible place to be.

@Nicolawicz Willow and Raiders are great. But as far as Temple of Doom being better as a sequel HELL NO. Most of what I said about Empire can fit with Raiders.

As for Lucas as a story teller. Again, unmatched. Him giving over the reigns as a director, well we never saw what he could do directing that kind of story. I may be in the minority, but I quite like movies he has directed, but he is still a writer first.