Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Really? That's the only change that bothers you?

I will openly admit this is a change that bothers me for purely nostalgic reasons. It doesn't have a negative impact on the narrative but it was such a well done, powerful moment that it achieves what millions of years of evolution have conditioned our brains to do, and make us relive a positive experience.

[Yojimbo68]

In preparation for Rogue One, I got together with some friends and we watched the 2011 Star Wars: A New Hope Blu-ray. The special edition changes are really starting to bother me. When they hit Mos Eisley, I totally tune out now. So I decided I was tired of waiting and I jumped in hip deep with the whole Despecialized thing. Watching the reconstructed theatrical version of Star Wars literally brought a tear to my eye. I'm done with the "special" editions. From now on, despecialized all the way!

[GeneD5]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

I will openly admit this is a change that bothers me for purely nostalgic reasons. It doesn't have a negative impact on the narrative but it was such a well done, powerful moment that it achieves what millions of years of evolution have conditioned our brains to do, and make us relive a positive experience.

I agree that that call is completely ridiculous. When it happens, it's not even entirely clear it's coming from Kenobi or where it's from. It's plain strange and awkward.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

The point is that the Original Trilogy looks better than the Prequel Trilogy because there isn't CGI.

No. It looks the way it looks because color grading and and other things. You don't like the look.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo68

In preparation for Rogue One, I got together with some friends and we watched the 2011 Star Wars: A New Hope Blu-ray. The special edition changes are really starting to bother me. When they hit Mos Eisley, I totally tune out now. So I decided I was tired of waiting and I jumped in hip deep with the whole Despecialized thing. Watching the reconstructed theatrical version of Star Wars literally brought a tear to my eye. I'm done with the "special" editions. From now on, despecialized all the way!

It's funny 'cuz I had a similar epiphany just yesterday.

Until 2015, I was all about the "original editions". I'd only watch the crappy 4x3 letterboxed laserdisc transfers on the 2006 dvd's... then the Despecialized Editions on blu-ray. In 2015, I finally accepted the prequels (which I'd previously hated), and so I started watching the whole Saga "as Lucas intended", with the 2011 Final Editions of IV - VI. It was pretty painful... every single change "bumps" with me, since I know the originals so well. After almost two years of exclusively watching those 2011 versions, I just revisited the Despecialized STAR WARS '77 last night, and freaking loved it -- a breath of fresh air. So much better, in a million little ways. Even the old stereo mix is light years better than the 5.1, in my opinion.

So I think I'll stick to the Despecialized from now on. And I'm not a "butthurt" fanboy either, to borrow a phrase from the more mature crowd in this forum; I really gave the 2011 editions a go, for two whole years... but there are very few things I'll miss by going old school again.

[doctor_who]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo68

In preparation for Rogue One, I got together with some friends and we watched the 2011 Star Wars: A New Hope Blu-ray. The special edition changes are really starting to bother me. When they hit Mos Eisley, I totally tune out now. So I decided I was tired of waiting and I jumped in hip deep with the whole Despecialized thing. Watching the reconstructed theatrical version of Star Wars literally brought a tear to my eye. I'm done with the "special" editions. From now on, despecialized all the way!

Would you like an award?

My nephew has only seen the special editions AND he likes the prequels as much. This probably horrifies you lol.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

Would you like an award?

My nephew has only seen the special editions AND he likes the prequels as much. This probably horrifies you lol.

Wow, this is really obnoxious. We're just sharing our opinions here, buddy. There was nothing in the post you quoted that tried to impose ideas on anyone else; that was that Yojimbo68's unique and valid experience. And I happen to have had a similar experience, as a matter of fact -- please see my post, above -- but it's still a big galaxy of opinions, and they all have merit. Chill.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No. It looks the way it looks because color grading and and other things. You don't like the look.

That is assuredly not the case. How would that even account for what I said about blocking and composition?

[octagon]

I actually wouldn't mind an award of some sort.

Nothing fancy, mind you...

[1924]

even though 4k remasters would be better none of the movies look bad with ROTS being demo worthy

[cb1]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Really? That's the only change that bothers you?

yup, really. I'm good with the rest.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

The point is that the Original Trilogy looks better than the Prequel Trilogy because there isn't CGI, and more importantly, badly utilized CGI. If CGI existed in '77 Star Wars may have looked and felt terrible. If they chose not to use CGI in the prequels the way they did they would've looked much better.

I don't fault the prequels for pushing the CGI envelope, but the freedom that it gave the filmmakers seems to have taken away the creativity normally used to solve composition and blocking problems.

Here's the thing: movies like TFA and Rogue have picked up the baton and made the blend of CG and practical work so utterly convincing (well, in Rogue anyway) that Lucas' dreams have finally come to fruition. Without him taking such a huge step - and others like Cameron and Spielberg laying the groundwork before that - then would these digital dreams have become so advanced to the point where people complain about CG Star Destroyers looking like plastic models? Oh, sweet irony.

So while I'll give Lucas props for jump-starting the digital age, the prequels were testing grounds for the tech as much as anything and the storytelling suffered badly as a result. The original films are NOT Shakespeare, to pre-empt anyone wheeling out the "but the originals have bad dialogue too" card (you know who you are) but neither do they have some rambling story that's far too big & unfocused to be properly resolved in three films. If Lucas had set out to make a simple prequel story with reams of grand CG VFX then I think the prequels would've worked better, just as if he'd made a grand story with much simpler VFX.

But the combo of both the new digital toolbox AND this sprawling political take on Star Wars meant that he bit off way more than he could chew, being far too distracted by the former to properly concentrate on the latter, and when I watch Rogue One I get a very bittersweet feeling. I mean, I love it, but as a Star Wars film which certainly doesn't shy away from internal politicking on either side of the Imperial divide and is told with beautiful digital photography and wonderfully well-integrated digital VFX, it damned near makes me weep for what the prequels COULD have been. But without cultural touchstones like these near-mythical "prequels" being offered up as sacrifices to the digital Gods, would we be as far along with digital tech as we are now? ARRRRGGGGHH! To quote Sarah Connor: "A person could go crazy thinking about this".

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Here's the thing: movies like TFA and Rogue have picked up the baton and made the blend of CG and practical work so utterly convincing (well, in Rogue anyway) that Lucas' dreams have finally come to fruition. Without him taking such a huge step - and others like Cameron and Spielberg laying the groundwork before that - then would these digital dreams have become so advanced to the point where people complain about CG Star Destroyers looking like plastic models? Oh, sweet irony.

So while I'll give Lucas props for jump-starting the digital age, the prequels were testing grounds for the tech as much as anything and the storytelling suffered badly as a result. The original films are NOT Shakespeare, to pre-empt anyone wheeling out the "but the originals have bad dialogue too" card (you know who you are) but neither do they have some rambling story that's far too big & unfocused to be properly resolved in three films. If Lucas had set out to make a simple prequel story with reams of grand CG VFX then I think the prequels would've worked better, just as if he'd made a grand story with much simpler VFX.

But the combo of both the new digital toolbox AND this sprawling political take on Star Wars meant that he bit off way more than he could chew, being far too distracted by the former to properly concentrate on the latter, and when I watch Rogue One I get a very bittersweet feeling. I mean, I love it, but as a Star Wars film which certainly doesn't shy away from internal politicking on either side of the Imperial divide and is told with beautiful digital photography and wonderfully well-integrated digital VFX, it damned near makes me weep for what the prequels COULD have been. But without cultural touchstones like these near-mythical "prequels" being offered up as sacrifices to the digital Gods, would we be as far along with digital tech as we are now? ARRRRGGGGHH! To quote Sarah Connor: "A person could go crazy thinking about this".

I hope you are talking about me. I really hope.

As for the bigger story with the new adventures, I think it is more putting down the prequels because the OT was that good.

Still, with fleshed out stories told in between like Rogue 1 and the Animated series, I accept the movies for what they are...very good films. I think Lucas should be applauded for his fine work, even if a bit bumpy.

What I don't get is how literally no OT fan will comment on any of the flaws of the original films. Empire Hamil yells. Nooooo and it is oh so so accpeted. Hadyn yells it with a better reason and it is totally and utterly horrible?

I guess love is blind, in this case I swear it is more like plucked out never to be seen again!

[Ernest Rister]

We're all crazy.

[HD Goofnut]

So, I went through all the my LD transfers on the 2006 DVDs of the OUT last night and ripped them to one of my drives. It was the first time I had watched them in a few years. They sure do look and sound rough, but they will do until an official release happens.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Empire Hamil yells. Nooooo and it is oh so so accpeted. Hadyn yells it with a better reason and it is totally and utterly horrible?

I'm pretty sure the one that people complain about is James Earl Jones, who manages to sound like a wounded teenage boy when he shouts "Nooooo". That's to his credit as an actor, but it certainly demystifies Darth Vader a whole lot.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

So, I went through all the my LD transfers on the 2006 DVDs of the OUT last night and ripped them to one of my drives. It was the first time I had watched them in a few years. They sure do look and sound rough, but they will do until an official release happens.

Despecialized versions are better.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Here's the thing: movies like TFA and Rogue have picked up the baton and made the blend of CG and practical work so utterly convincing (well, in Rogue anyway) that Lucas' dreams have finally come to fruition. Without him taking such a huge step - and others like Cameron and Spielberg laying the groundwork before that - then would these digital dreams have become so advanced to the point where people complain about CG Star Destroyers looking like plastic models? Oh, sweet irony.

So while I'll give Lucas props for jump-starting the digital age, the prequels were testing grounds for the tech as much as anything and the storytelling suffered badly as a result. The original films are NOT Shakespeare, to pre-empt anyone wheeling out the "but the originals have bad dialogue too" card (you know who you are) but neither do they have some rambling story that's far too big & unfocused to be properly resolved in three films. If Lucas had set out to make a simple prequel story with reams of grand CG VFX then I think the prequels would've worked better, just as if he'd made a grand story with much simpler VFX.

But the combo of both the new digital toolbox AND this sprawling political take on Star Wars meant that he bit off way more than he could chew, being far too distracted by the former to properly concentrate on the latter, and when I watch Rogue One I get a very bittersweet feeling. I mean, I love it, but as a Star Wars film which certainly doesn't shy away from internal politicking on either side of the Imperial divide and is told with beautiful digital photography and wonderfully well-integrated digital VFX, it damned near makes me weep for what the prequels COULD have been. But without cultural touchstones like these near-mythical "prequels" being offered up as sacrifices to the digital Gods, would we be as far along with digital tech as we are now? ARRRRGGGGHH! To quote Sarah Connor: "A person could go crazy thinking about this".

Indeed, that's a point I've made every now and then in the past when discussing these and other CG-heavy (for their time) late '90s-early '00s films with people. We can complain about how Lucas and some others relied far too much on the tech (you can throw the digital cameras in here too) "before it was ready", but the thing is without these pioneers leading the way the tech won't "be ready" anytime soon.

You need to take those first stumbling steps to learn how to walk, so it's a double-edged sword for sure. Later films benefit from it, and we'll be thanking these filmmakers when CG reaches a level of perfect photorealism (we've certainly come a long way already), but those early "sacrificial lambs" will always look a bit rough and may not age as well as their contemporaries that played it a bit safer with more traditional and conservative use of VFX.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But the combo of both the new digital toolbox AND this sprawling political take on Star Wars meant that he bit off way more than he could chew, being far too distracted by the former to properly concentrate on the latter,...

And in a related vein, he made some (to my eye) really odd editorial decisions. I'll cite a TPM pet peeve as an example. I was already in a fairly skeptical headspace by the time we got to the underwater chase but was still totally blown away by the underwater city reveal. It was quite on a par with that Death Star looming into the frame in the opening minutes of Star Wars but it was awfully freaking cool.

But where did we go from there? To cartoon aliens channeling Yosemite Sam which - again, to my eyes - just undercut the awesomeness of that reveal. It made the whole sequence feel cartoony which is a shame because the awesome part was actually pretty awesome.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

What I don't get is how literally no OT fan will comment on any of the flaws of the original films.

You literally don't know what you're talking about.

I could just say 'Ewoks' and drop the mic but I'll point to OT fans making fun of 'It's a trap' or 'Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where???' or Han's Gilmore Girly 'can you tell Luke? Is that who you can tell'.

OT fans have never been shy about criticizing the original films.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I guess love is blind,...

Ophthalmologist, heal thyself.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Indeed, that's a point I've made every now and then in the past when discussing these and other CG-heavy (for their time) late '90s-early '00s films with people. We can complain about how Lucas and some others relied far too much on the tech (you can throw the digital cameras in here too) "before it was ready", but the thing is without these pioneers leading the way the tech won't "be ready" anytime soon.

You need to take those first stumbling steps to learn how to walk, so it's a double-edged sword for sure. Later films benefit from it, and we'll be thanking these filmmakers when CG reaches a level of perfect photorealism (we've certainly come a long way already), but those early "sacrificial lambs" will always look a bit rough and may not age as well as their contemporaries that played it a bit safer with more traditional and conservative use of VFX.

Right. It's just a shame that, for history's sake, it had to be the freakin' Star Wars prequels that were this key digital battleground, and Lucas didn't just learn how to walk but went from baby steps to running the 100 metres in 10 seconds flat. He pitched digital filmmaking into lightspeed like he was Han flying the Falcon, unfortunately he left the story behind as he did so.