Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[svenge]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

You can read or not, but putting down how I write is not respectful, even if true. Never said I was a perfect writer or I didn't need an editor.

Then for the love of God, please retain the services of one before posting another of the page-long screeds that you're becoming infamous for.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by svenge

Then for the love of God, please retain the services of one before posting another of the page-long screeds that you're becoming infamous for.

I haven't posted for a week, but instead we get jackass gifs and miles of separate posts?

Tweens, gotta love it. Can't read past a sentence.

[crissrudd4554]

@ElvisForever Fine. I apologize for criticizing your writing. That was in poor taste on my behalf I will admit however if the discussion just gets stretched and stretched to where it's just two conflicting opinions not agreeing on anything the discussion often loses its purpose. Like we said we'll agree to disagree.

See you find restoring the originals less necessary for reasons different from mine and again that's an opinion. I will not knock you for having an opinion. However I also believe in preserving history. The versions of the OT available today only represent about half the work that was initially done and despite if it matches Lucas' vision or not it is misleading to future generations. Case and point. Let's say Donald Trump signed a law that says future history books say George Washington crossed the Delaware river in a Learjet. There's two things wrong with that. Learjets didn't exist in the 1700s and there's history books to support that didn't happen that way. But I'm expected to accept it because it's the presidents 'vision'.

Now again I don't mind artists wanting to be artists. That's how I view it in Lucas' case. Artists will artists. Perfectionists will be perfectionist. Hell Im a perfectionist. But there's the public to think about. If they're spending their hard earned money for something you created you want to please them. You also want people to learn and discover things. You said yourself you come here to learn and discuss. IMO fans shouldn't have to learn the difficult way that something they love very dearly was once upon very different and still loved by many.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Which came first, the George Lucas Hater or the George Lucas Defender? One begat the other, in any case, and always feels the need to reflect back the hate/worship with worship/hate.

Me I just calls it as I sees it. One minute I see the genius of the prequels, the next I want to remove the disc from my player and crack it in half (usually thoughout the first two hours of Attack of the Clones).

I think the haters came first, and then some prequel fans finally got irritated enough that they became overly-defensive about them. At this point it's like the Star Wars version of being ultra left or right-wing if you're looking at the "Lucas raped my childhood!" crowd and the "the prequels are genius, you ignorant pleb!" people.

I'm not such a fan of the prequels, but I'm such a Star Wars fan that I enjoy discussing them and talking about why I don't think they worked, and hearing from people that think they did work and why. What I absolutely hate though is when people try to tear down the opposite opinion with such stupid, vapid arguments like "people don't like the prequels due to expectations or just being haterz" or "nobody likes the prequels except deluded Lucas worshipers" and crap like that. Everyone needs to stop trying to tear down people with a different opinions just to try to validate yours.

[SuddenStorm]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except he was around 46 or so when he died.

I always found it amusing how Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru go from being a young couple in their 20's in RotS, to an old couple in their 60's+ in ANH.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

@ElvisForever Fine. I apologize for criticizing your writing. That was in poor taste on my behalf I will admit however if the discussion just gets stretched and stretched to where it's just two conflicting opinions not agreeing on anything the discussion often loses its purpose. Like we said we'll agree to disagree.

See you find restoring the originals less necessary for reasons different from mine and again that's an opinion. I will not knock you for having an opinion. However I also believe in preserving history. The versions of the OT available today only represent about half the work that was initially done and despite if it matches Lucas' vision or not it is misleading to future generations. Case and point. Let's say Donald Trump signed a law that says future history books say George Washington crossed the Delaware river in a Learjet. There's two things wrong with that. Learjets didn't exist in the 1700s and there's history books to support that didn't happen that way. But I'm expected to accept it because it's the presidents 'vision'.

Now again I don't mind artists wanting to be artists. That's how I view it in Lucas' case. Artists will artists. Perfectionists will be perfectionist. Hell Im a perfectionist. But there's the public to think about. If they're spending their hard earned money for something you created you want to please them. You also want people to learn and discover things. You said yourself you come here to learn and discuss. IMO fans shouldn't have to learn the difficult way that something they love very dearly was once upon very different and still loved by many.

And with your entire post I completely agree. No worries. I will put the criticism into consideration. I had a long week and had some posting anxious pent up.

I believe in preserving history and that includes the old commetaries and old sound mixes. Lucas can be a stubborn one. The thing I will never forgive is him selling his property. A shame, even if it his is

I love Rogue One...but it also in ways feels less imaginative

@motorheadache95 nailed it!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by SuddenStorm

I always found it amusing how Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru go from being a young couple in their 20's in RotS, to an old couple in their 60's+ in ANH.

As I said, living on Tatooine is hell. Living in a desert is hell, and my electric bill in summer/fall reflects that.


I know people around here in their 40s who look like they're in their late 50's/early 60's - skin wrinkled and cracked. Too much time in the sun.

[Class316]

Owen and Beru could easily be in their 30s in ROTS.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I think the haters came first, and then some prequel fans finally got irritated enough that they became overly-defensive about them. At this point it's like the Star Wars version of being ultra left or right-wing if you're looking at the "Lucas raped my childhood!" crowd and the "the prequels are genius, you ignorant pleb!" people.

I'm not such a fan of the prequels, but I'm such a Star Wars fan that I enjoy discussing them and talking about why I don't think they worked, and hearing from people that think they did work and why. What I absolutely hate though is when people try to tear down the opposite opinion with such stupid, vapid arguments like "people don't like the prequels due to expectations or just being haterz" or "nobody likes the prequels except deluded Lucas worshipers" and crap like that. Everyone needs to stop trying to tear down people with a different opinions just to try to validate yours.

Yes, exactly - this series polarises opinion like no other. As you say, I love discussing the ins and outs of it, to learn why X works and y doesn't, and the ultra-hardline opinions from either side do nobody any favours, except skew discussion back towards binary love/hate that sends us back to square one.

[bobbyh64]

The main reason why I don't like the special editions isn't that I think every change is bad, it's just that when I see them I think "That's not what happened." Greedo didn't shoot Han, Darth Vader's ghost isn't a young guy," etc. Maybe if the changes were made extremely early on they would be more accepted, but waiting 20 years to make changes and another 14 years to make more is too much. It would be like Francis Ford Coppola re-doing The Godfather Part II and replacing De Nio's face with a young CGI Brando face. Even if he could pull it off I'd still think it was ridiculous. And how about if Coppola decided he didn't want

[Show spoiler]Michael Corleone to be a cold-blooded killer and changed the scene of Michael ordering his brother's death so that someone else orders it. Maybe it could work but... "That's not what happened."

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

The main reason why I don't like the special editions isn't that I think every change is bad, it's just that when I see them I think "That's not what happened." Greedo didn't shoot Han, Darth Vader's ghost isn't a young guy," etc. Maybe if the changes were made extremely early on they would be more accepted, but waiting 20 years to make changes and another 14 years to make more is too much. It would be like Francis Ford Coppola re-doing The Godfather Part II and replacing De Nio's face with a young CGI Brando face. Even if he could pull it off I'd still think it was ridiculous. And how about if Coppola decided he didn't want

[Show spoiler]Michael Corleone to be a cold-blooded killer and changed the scene of Michael ordering his brother's death so that someone else orders it. Maybe it could work but... "That's not what happened."

You know what I always thought was a Lucas classic. Didn't a version of the home media have the rears reversed...so he releases again, not fixing it, but combining the rear signals saying he always meant it to be that way!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

It would be like Francis Ford Coppola re-doing The Godfather Part II and replacing De Nio's face with a young CGI Brando face. Even if he could pull it off I'd still think it was ridiculous.

So you're comparing a couple shots of a guy standing there and smiling replaced to dozens of scenes with action, drama and dialogue?

Not to mention Shaw wasn't replaced in the scene where he did have dialogue.

And the comparison falls flat since it's DeNiro as the younger version of Brando, so Brando would in fact be the one replaced.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

So you're comparing a couple shots of a guy standing there and smiling replaced to dozens of scenes with action, drama and dialogue?

Not to mention Shaw wasn't replaced in the scene where he did have dialogue.

The principle is still the same. If Coppola decided to do that, some people might claim that it's "the artist's vision."

And the comparison falls flat since it's DeNiro as the younger version of Brando, so Brando would in fact be the one replaced.

What are you talking about? Robert De Niro plays the younger version of Marlon Brando's character. So if De Niro's face was replaced with a younger CGI version of Brando's face, then that means De Niro would be replaced with Brando.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

The principle is still the same. If Coppola decided to do that, some people might claim that it's "the artist's vision."

If he had done so in 1974 there wouldn't have been a legion of internet fans relentlessly criticizing him if he did.

What are you talking about? Robert De Niro plays the younger version of Marlon Brando's character. So if De Niro's face was replaced with a younger CGI version of Brando's face, then that means De Niro would be replaced with Brando.

No, because Brando (Shaw) came first and DeNiro (Christensen) played him younger.


The comparison still doesn't make sense and the principle is not the same.


Now if you want to run with this...if you know your Godfather history Coppola wanted Brando for the final dinner scene where Pacino reveals he joined the army. He could have digitally inserted Brando with today's tech.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I haven't posted for a week, but instead we get jackass gifs...

Hey, Elvis! How have you been? Jackass gifs, you say? Funny you should mention that. I recently came across these deleted shots and tests from Return of the Jedi.

Here's a GIF of a deleted shot of Boba Fett attacking a blind Han Solo that I found...



And here's a test for the wire-work on the levitating Threepio in Jedi I think you'll enjoy...



Lastly, here's a test for the Return of the Jedi: Special Edition with the Gungan celebration on Naboo...

[Ernest Rister]

Not a donkey gif, but here's a deleted shot of Chewbacca going into hyperspace from Empire...



I'll stop...I think I'm allowed only four or five nonsense gifs a month, now I have to wait until February.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If he had done so in 1974 there wouldn't have been a legion of internet fans relentlessly criticizing him if he did.

Yes, I know. In my post about why I don't like the special editions one of my reasons was that Lucas waited so many years to make the changes. If Coppola made those changes I suggested in my hypothetical Godather Part II decades later, that version of the movie would be considered ridiculous by a lot of people.

No, because Brando (Shaw) came first and DeNiro (Christensen) played him younger.

Brando is the first Vito Corleone, but Robert De Niro is the first and only Vito Corleone as a young man. So in that sense, he is the original version of that character at that age and replacing his face with Brando's would be similar to replacing Shaw's face with Christensen's at the end of Return of the Jedi.

The comparison still doesn't make sense and the principle is not the same.

I know it's not literally exactly the same thing, but so what? It's similar enough to make a comparison. My main point is that it's ridiculous to make extremely obvious changes to a movie that has already existed for decades. And if the creator still insists on them, he should at least make the original version available.

Now if you want to run with this...if you know your Godfather history Coppola wanted Brando for the final dinner scene where Pacino reveals he joined the army. He could have digitally inserted Brando with today's tech.

Yes he could. If he did that I would consider that a ridiculous change because that movie is 42 years old. It might be an interesting special feature, but to make it part of the movie and only making that new version available is ridiculous.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Hey, Elvis! How have you been? Jackass gifs, you say? Funny you should mention that. I recently came across these deleted shots and tests from Return of the Jedi.

[Show spoiler]Here's a GIF of a deleted shot of Boba Fett attacking a blind Han Solo that I found...



And here's a test for the wire-work on the levitating Threepio in Jedi I think you'll enjoy...



Lastly, here's a test for the Return of the Jedi: Special Edition with the Gungan celebration on Naboo...

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Not a donkey gif, but here's a deleted shot of Chewbacca going into hyperspace from Empire...

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'll stop...I think I'm allowed only four or five nonsense gifs a month, now I have to wait until February.

LOL!!! I wouldn't mind seeing more of these! But I guess I can be patient and wait until Feb.

I'm glad this thread has people like Ernest Rister and Geoff D (among others), and when things get too crazy we have StingingVelvet to bring us back down to Earth.

[Ernest Rister]

Weesa free! Hee-haw!!!!

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If he had done so in 1974 there wouldn't have been a legion of internet fans relentlessly criticizing him if he did.



No, because Brando (Shaw) came first and DeNiro (Christensen) played him younger.


The comparison still doesn't make sense and the principle is not the same.


Now if you want to run with this...if you know your Godfather history Coppola wanted Brando for the final dinner scene where Pacino reveals he joined the army. He could have digitally inserted Brando with today's tech.

I understood exactly what you said, but it is like explaining calculus to a bunch of chimps. You are more likely to get farts with cheesy smile head shakes than any true understanding.

Not that I am saying anyone is a chimp, but to compare this example to what Lucas went through is totally absurd.

The OT religion will find a fight even if there isn't one.