Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

I don't think the Force can do that.

It's called "character development."

She became attracted to him because:

1. He's young, handsome and she finds him physically attractive

2. He's dangerous (powerful and headstrong)

3. She senses his deep connection to the Force

4. She respects that he's devoted his life to helping others.

5. Her relationship with him represents a form of rebellion that she's never encountered before (forbidden love)

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Say what? Guess you missed the whole courting thing, with the beast thing and the rolling around frolic.

Good god you guys take things way too seriously.

However, the fact that you think Ep II had any sort of character development is hilarious. The movie didn't have time for character development, it had to set all of the pieces up so Anakin could turn evil and kill everyone in the next movie.

Originally Posted by BenjaminG

So far, it looks like Star Wars 40th anniversary is about as disappointing as Star Trek's 50th.

Why do we keep doing this to ourselves.

Don't know anything about Star Trek, but yeah, for being a 40th anniversary they don't seem to be doing anything special with it.

How about doing screenings for the original trilogy? How about showing the unaltered versions in theater if they aren't going to release them on disc?

Right now, Star Wars has gotten as much of a celebration as Metroid did.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Call it "chiding" (not following this example at all), but the facts are you want the movie to be what you want instead of accepting what the creator wants.

Yeah, so?

Did the Film Fan Rules Committee pass some resolution prohibiting the questioning of decisions by Creators or something? Does this rule apply to all Creators or just a select few?

Are, for example, the peons who think The Force Awakens is a bland, emotionless nostalgia-fest designed to do nothing more than rake in tons of cash by pandering to fanbois now obligated to just stfu and accept JJ's vision because that's what the Creator wanted and that's just all there is to it?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ben Reilly

<_<
>_>

Sarcasm?

Just kidding a little. Wasn't meant to be vicious.

xxxxxxx



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Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

Good god you guys take things way too seriously.

However, the fact that you think Ep II had any sort of character development is hilarious. The movie didn't have time for character development, it had to set all of the pieces up so Anakin could turn evil and kill everyone in the next movie.

Amazing how one could have opinions different than yours. Yes their was development, just not what you wanted. I got a pretty good interpretation of his demeanor. That is character development even if he isn't "eased" into it, like you wanted. Though the fight posted above was pretty cool, and it would have been nice to see more like it. I like my sociopaths well represented.

Don't know anything about Star Trek, but yeah, for being a 40th anniversary they don't seem to be doing anything special with it.

How about doing screenings for the original trilogy? How about showing the unaltered versions in theater if they aren't going to release them on disc?

Right now, Star Wars has gotten as much of a celebration as Metroid did.

How about this, how about that... and I take this "too seriously". Star Wars just got an incredible release with Rogue One. Sorry if they may seem just a tad busy. Disney has a great motto, move forward with product, than celebrate achievement. At this time, they don't need old trilogy fanfare taking away from sales of what they are pushing now.

To me, it has been done...and done...and done again. I enjoy the 35mm print with 70mm surround. The rest are better and more cohesive in special form. If you don't like, well...seek out alternatives. Not that I am promoting such a thing, but there is no use crying about it.

I prefer that they move forward with the future of Star Wars and let the fans worry about the past.

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Originally Posted by octagon

Yeah, so?

Did the Film Fan Rules Committee pass some resolution prohibiting the questioning of decisions by Creators or something? Does this rule apply to all Creators or just a select few?

Are, for example, the peons who think The Force Awakens is a bland, emotionless nostalgia-fest designed to do nothing more than rake in tons of cash by pandering to fanbois now obligated to just stfu and accept JJ's vision because that's what the Creator wanted and that's just all there is to it?

So what? I stated what was going on (and he mislabeled it as "chiding"). Does this equate to me saying he doesn't have a right to speak his mind? Nice straw man there. Your second example doesn't follow. Complaining, is not saying to re-film or change story.

As for questioning creators I do it all the time. What I don't do is say that this should be filmed this way, or this should be wrote that way. I enjoy film, and while I may say a film is boring, or there were issues with contradictions, the difference is that I try to understand what the film creator intended and not push for them to change their art. Matter of fact, in some cases I really try to understand the end result.

It is what it is, and crying and complaining to point of making no attempt to understand what was being expressed is not constructive to the artistry.

But that is just my opinion. I say all that feel differently, keep on. I don't mind responding to them one bit.

And heck yes I take Star Wars seriously. It is and will always be, because this series is an important part of my life. When someone says that crap I do take offense. It is like saying that one of my childhood friends are no big deal. Those movies and toys gave me so much enjoyment, hell yes I am defending them and dissecting them to no end. Unlike some friends that can come and go, these movies will likely never leave my side in one way or another.

[steel_breeze]

Watching the director's commentary on PHANTOM MENACE for the first time, and it occurred to me... the "three trilogies" when watched in Episode Order are a fascinating and unprecedented exercise in the "auteur theory" of filmmaking.

In Episodes I-III, Lucas was surrounded by yes-men who would never tell him when he was taking the story astray. Thus, they're riddled with almost unwatchable moments (although I've grown to enjoy the prequels OVERALL in the last two years).

In Episode IV, Lucas was beholden to a studio and had plenty of outside forces reigning him in -- including his DP, who shot in a classically-composed manner that was at odds with the "documentary style" Lucas craved. It's an extremely collaborative undertaking, but with young Lucas' vision strongly leading the way.... and created an indisputable cinematic classic.

Episodes V and VI are very much "Lucas at the helm" (as a producer), but still surrounded by people that are imposing their own creativity -- and they're classics as well (especially V).

Then you get VII, which is clearly a "movie by committee". Don't get me wrong; I loved VII, but it's clearly assembled by a focus group.

So in summary: too much Lucas = bad (although I've learned to appreciate the prequels -- only recently); too little Lucas = lacking a "certain something (although I personally dig TFA)... leaving the category: "Lucas with just the right amount of studio oversight" to exist in the un-repeatable lightning-in-a-bottle sweet-spot of the Saga.

Just food for thought as I watch this commentary on Episode I.

[Mefan101]

As someone who loves Star Wars, is it ok to like the Prequels, like the Special Editions, say that Return Of The Jedi is my favorite (& the best in the Saga), and be a fan at the same time? Or is there some stupid standard I'm not aware of????

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

As someone who loves Star Wars, is it ok to like the Prequels, like the Special Editions, say that Return Of The Jedi is my favorite (& the best in the Saga), and be a fan at the same time? Or is there some stupid standard I'm not aware of????

I've absolutely grown to -- gasp -- love the prequels, ever since I had a weird epiphany in 2015 (when the first first "full" trailer for TFA debuted, with that amazing image of the crashed Star Destroyer). Now I'm in an "all STAR WARS is good STAR WARS" frame of mind, where I simply enjoy EVERYTHING, from the classic 1977 original to the Prequels, to ROGUE ONE, to the silly Lego FREEMAKER ADVENTURES. But although I have a very open mind about it, I can still recognize that the original 1977 STAR WARS belongs in a category with CITIZEN KANE and GONE WITH THE WIND, while THE PHANTOM MENACE does not.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

So in summary: too much Lucas = bad (although I've learned to appreciate the prequels -- only recently); too little Lucas = lacking a "certain something (although I personally dig TFA)... leaving the category: "Lucas with just the right amount of studio oversight" to exist in the un-repeatable lightning-in-a-bottle sweet-spot of the Saga.

Just food for thought as I watch this commentary on Episode I.

Heh. This is me, from last year when complaining about TFA for the umpteenth time:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If the PT was sunk by the world-building - which I definitely agree with, Lucas bit off way more than he could chew - and the ST (so far) doesn't give a toss about it, then the OT is the porridge that's juuuuuuuust right: it had a damned near perfect balance of story and world-building. Cynics would say "well, that's because it had to establish the world of SW, being the start of this entire franchise" but that still doesn't change how well those movies handled such things IMO ("certain points of view" aside).

The acid test for this will of course be how I feel about TLJ. If they can start to fill in the backstory gaps and expand the mythos at the same time then I'm gonna enjoy it a lot, and may even come around to TFA's charms one of these days.

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I've absolutely grown to -- gasp -- love the prequels, ever since I had a weird epiphany in 2015 (when the first first "full" trailer for TFA debuted, with that amazing image of the crashed Star Destroyer). Now I'm in an "all STAR WARS is good STAR WARS" frame of mind, where I simply enjoy EVERYTHING, from the classic 1977 original to the Prequels, to ROGUE ONE, to the silly Lego FREEMAKER ADVENTURES. But although I have a very open mind about it, I can still recognize that the original 1977 STAR WARS belongs in a category with CITIZEN KANE and GONE WITH THE WIND, while THE PHANTOM MENACE does not.

But are your thoughts on the Special Editions. Like it or not, they're canon.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

But are your thoughts on the Special Editions. Like it or not, they're canon.

I didn't even touch on the SPECIAL EDITIONS in my comments... but if you must know...

I think the SPECIAL EDITIONS are "fine" if you're watching all the movies in Episode Order; I respect the blu-rays, in a weird sort of way, for being the "final Lucas editions".... fake rocks and extra "Nooooooo's" and all... (although "Jedi Rocks" is unwatchable, and I skip it every single time by pressing the "next chapter' button)...

But I still wish we had the CHOICE to watch the versions we want to watch... as with CLOSE ENCOUNTERS and BLADE RUNNER; from a historical perspective, if nothing else. Criterion should release the definitive 1977 STAR WARS, since it's such a piece of cinematic history. Frankly, I don't care if I never again get to see the original EMPIRE or JEDI; I just want my 1977 STAR WARS, when Vader wasn't Luke's father and Leia certainly wasn't his sister.

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

In Episode IV, Lucas was beholden to a studio and had plenty of outside forces reigning him in -- including his DP, who shot in a classically-composed manner that was at odds with the "documentary style" Lucas craved.

It's not the DP's call to say how a shot is composed. Where did you hear Lucas wanted to do it in a documentary style? All of Lucas' early films are shot in "a classically-composed manner".

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

It's not the DP's call to say how a shot is composed. Where did you hear Lucas wanted to do it in a documentary style? All of Lucas' early films are shot in "a classically-composed manner".

I am a professional feature-film DP, and we can have a great deal of creative input, when it comes to visual style -- depending on the director and the project. But anyhoo... this excerpt from STARLOG issue #7 (from August, 1977) -- with specific quotes from Charles Lippincott -- addresses exactly what I'm talking on about:
To insure a sense of realism amid the spectacular imaginative trappings, Lucas hoped to utilize a documentary style camera. "But (cinematographer) Gil's head was in a different place altogether." The STAR WARS cameraman saw the dark drama, the brilliant action, a creative use of color and wild camera angles. "Gil never really produced the sort of documentary style George was after. Personally, I don't think the film ever merited documentary," Lippincott says, reflecting. "I think George sees that in retrospect."

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I didn't even touch on the SPECIAL EDITIONS in my comments... but if you must know...

I think the SPECIAL EDITIONS are "fine" if you're watching all the movies in Episode Order; I respect the blu-rays, in a weird sort of way, for being the "final Lucas editions".... fake rocks and extra "Nooooooo's" and all... (although "Jedi Rocks" is unwatchable, and I skip it every single time by pressing the "next chapter' button)...

Jedi Rocks may be silly, but I personally am able to watch and listen to it with no problem.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

It's not the DP's call to say how a shot is composed. Where did you hear Lucas wanted to do it in a documentary style? All of Lucas' early films are shot in "a classically-composed manner".

I really didn't mean to say anything controversial, lol.... I just think it's fascinating that:

EPISODES I-III = all visionary, surrounded by "yes men"

EPISODES IV-VI = visionary at the helm, but reined in by the collaborative system (although less so, with VI)

EPISODES VII-??? = all committee with no single visionary at the helm

And to be clear: I like them ALL; even the prequels. No judgment here; just observation.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

EPISODES VII-??? = all committee with no single visionary at the helm

Kathleen Kennedy is the new visionary, I think.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Kathleen Kennedy is the new visionary, I think.

Fair enough... she's got some oversight, but she definitely defers to her director (for style) and the Lucasfilm story-group (for overall arc)... thus creating a "committee". And to be extra extra clear... I really love FORCE AWAKENS and the direction they're going; but I still wonder -- as I toss and turn and night, lol -- what was Lucas' original vision for VII-IX?? He's the "maker"... flaws and all.

[Mefan101]

The way I see it, the "Unaltered" OT would fit much better in a world where no other Star Wars movie existed. There are things in the SE that fit more (in terms of look, canon, & continuity) with the Prequels, and even the new films. For example, I know there are some people who hate the different voice for Boba Fett, but when it comes to continuity, it makes sense.

There's also credit where credit is do in the SE. I'm a fan of the SE Mos Eisley sequences.


I also like the new Death Star assault in A New Hope. It's more intense.


For the Empire Strikes Back, I like the expansion of Cloud City


And I really like the "Victory Celebration" in Return Of The Jedi.


I was born in 1990, so I was introduced to the unaltered versions on VHS. I watched ROTJ more than the others. The first time I watched A New Hope from beginning to end was in 1997, when my mom took me to see it for the 20th Anniversary. I was 7.
So, this could be considered sacrilegious to some other Star Wars fans, but....



Don't get me wrong, I love the original content like Lapti Nek/Yub Nub, and I do have the "Despecialized Editions," but now it's mostly for preservation. The ones I'll be watching often will still be the Special Editions.

In time for the 40th Birthday, I'll be watching all the films in a row.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

I was born in 1990, so I was introduced to the unaltered versions on VHS. I watched ROTJ more than the others. The first time I watched A New Hope from beginning to end was in 1997, when my mom took me to see it for the 20th Anniversary. I was 7.
So, this could be considered sacrilegious to some other Star Wars fans, but....

I certainly hope that "haters gonna hate" meme isn't directed at me -- considering the immediate conversation we seem to be having. I couldn't have been more even-handed with my treatment of the prequels and the special editions in my posts.

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I certainly hope that "haters gonna hate" meme isn't directed at me -- considering the immediate conversation we seem to be having. I couldn't have been more even-handed with my treatment of the prequels and the special editions in my posts.

No! This is towards the pieces of Bantha Fodder (poodoo) who believe that you should be a fan of Star Wars one way, or not be a fan at all.

[Rodney-2187]

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[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

what was Lucas' original vision for VII-IX?? He's the "maker"... flaws and all.

Here's your answer regarding Episode VII:

What Happened In George Lucas' STAR WARS EPISODE VII - YouTube