Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

It is one thing to complain and criticize, it is another thing to tell the director/artist what he should have done.

No, sorry. There isn't a dime's worth of real difference between 'this soup would have been better with less salt' or 'this soup is too salty' or 'the cook shouldn't have used so much salt'.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

What is your point? When I explain something the same way twice, and you continue to say "so what" that it chiding in its textbook definition.

My point is that this notion that second-guessing Creators is somehow improper or illegitimate is absurd. There's absolutely nothing iffy or questionable about saying a filmmaker should have done A, B or C instead of X, Y or Z.

Which is pretty lucky because we all do it.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

But yes getting back to point. What I meant is what I said. No I don't say that a director should re-film or re-write a scene.

Who has been saying that? Who are these posters who have been clamoring for Lucas to go back in and reshoot and rewrite and re-edit the prequels?

Names would be nice. Quotes would be even nicer.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I stick to criticism vs re-imagining. Get the difference?

Again, sorry, no. I don't see any difference at all between saying that Phantasm III would have been a better film if it had focused on the original characters and the various things Geoff has said about the prequels.

All I see is a guy wagging his finger and saying 'It's fandom psychobabble when other people second-guess filmmakers but it's a critique when I do it'.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Sorry but I prefer to have the choice. If that puts me in a minority for you so be it.

That is not what I meant. I am speaking of the fans that want to rewrite George's work or entirely dismiss his efforts and act as if they don't exist.

Xxxxx

Caseyscott,

Continued popularity I think is an indicator of greatness and universal appeal. Popular fads wane...great art maintains. Star Wars in all forms has stood the test of time. Episode I is almost 20 years old. Some people need to get over it.

Of course film is collaborative.. but fans aren't included in the creation as much as they want to claim to be. Sure they finance it, but they have nothing to do with story and development in any significant way.

Lucas is without question the most important figure up to VI.

This is not a lazy defense, just a stone cold fact.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Continued popularity I think is an indicator of greatness and universal appeal. Popular fads wane...great art maintains. Star Wars in all forms has stood the test of time. Episode I is almost 20 years old. Some people need to get over it.

So now you're calling TPM "great art"? I know you've taken a lot of outlandish stances in this thread, but that one takes the cake!

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Boy for not good films they sure is popular.

If these are bad films, than I am all in, because I do not want to know what "good" Star Wars is in the eyes of OT fanboys that will accept nothing but what they want to see (previous recent discussion excluded).

If Lucas announced that the special editions were a mistake and decided he only wanted the unaltered OT to be released from now on, would you respect that and not criticize him for his choice?

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is not what I meant. I am speaking of the fans that want to rewrite George's work or entirely dismiss his efforts and act as if they don't exist.

Xxxxx

Caseyscott,

Continued popularity I think is an indicator of greatness and universal appeal. Popular fads wane...great art maintains. Star Wars in all forms has stood the test of time. Episode I is almost 20 years old. Some people need to get over it.

Of course film is collaborative.. but fans aren't included in the creation as much as they want to claim to be. Sure they finance it, but they have nothing to do with story and development in any significant way.

Lucas is without question the most important figure up to VI.

This is not a lazy defense, just a stone cold fact.

No one needs to get over anything, this forum is exists so people can discuss these matters that interest them. That is the lazy defense again, you're not providing anything constructive to the debate, you're chalking up anyone who disagrees with you as "needing to get over it" or a "fanboy."

I'm not sure why you referenced "fans" as I was talking about contributions from the other crew tasked with creative jurisdiction.

[monkeybrow]

Give me back the unaltered OT on blu George and the prequels will be forgiven. Pretty please.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

There were a few snidey comments about things Lucas did and wanted in some of the prequel commentaries. I think Burtt and some of the ILM guys said what they thought; ultimately it just didn't matter. Lucas called the shots and had complete power.

Originally Posted by Ben Reilly

And they are his movies so he should.

Thing people forget is he had that power on ALL the films. He basically fired John Dykstra after A New Hope over the setting ILM up debacle. He paid for Empire & Jedi out of pocket and was on set every day. He approved every dialogue change, edit, and VFX shot. Yes, he had people who advised him but in the end they were his films and the final decision was his.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

And my posts are FARRRRR from "prequel hating". I was very even handed, and expressed how much I currently enjoy the prequels. But I do think and will continue to think -- of my own volition -- that Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men.

I just find it odd how a lot of posts use the exact same phrasing.


But that's what a boss gets - they were his movies, his vision and he was paying for all of it with his money. If someone disagreed with him he ignored it. Getting in his face and saying no probably got you fired - you're not in a position to do that.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

No one needs to get over anything, this forum is exists so people can discuss these matters that interest them. That is the lazy defense again, you're not providing anything constructive to the debate, you're chalking up anyone who disagrees with you as "needing to get over it" or a "fanboy."

I'm not sure why you referenced "fans" as I was talking about contributions from the other crew tasked with creative jurisdiction.

"Lazy defense" that is a good one. You seem to be stuck on that. All who disagree are fanboys...no I am posting about specific examples. You are the one that is coming in with lazy ass generalizations.

As for creative jurisdiction, get this straight, director is final say, end of story. Creator and producer, more so. You seem to think it is something to be voted on. Bzzzzz wrongo.

[Mefan101]

I can't wait to watch all 8 films (this includes Rogue One) next month in time for the 40th birthday. I start on the 21st with The Phantom Menace, so that I can watch A New Hope on the 25th.

On a side note, the worst, and possibly the most annoying thing spoken by any other Star Wars fan is "George Lucas raped my childhood."



I facepalm every time.

[Rodney-2187]

The Original Trilogy was fine for 20 years before the special editions. How can anyone think people wouldn't want to see the version they grew up on and fell in love with? They really don't care what Lucas wants because people spent 20 years liking it the way it was. They aren't going to stop liking what they like.

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

The Original Trilogy was fine for 20 years before the special editions. How can anyone think people would want to see the version they grew up on and fell in love with. What Lucas wants really doesn't matter after you've spent 20 years liking it the way it was.

He didn't rape your childhood. That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I don't share your feelings. The special editions were released when I was 7. Am I to blame for not having a problem with the changes? I was part of the next generation of fans at the time. Lucas did something right.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

"Lazy defense" that is a good one. You seem to be stuck on that. All who disagree are fanboys...no I am posting about specific examples. You are the one that is coming in with lazy ass generalizations.

As for creative jurisdiction, get this straight, director is final say, end of story. Creator and producer, more so. You seem to think it is something to be voted on. Bzzzzz wrongo.

I understand how the filming process works, and I never stated the director doesn't have the final say (she/he does not always though) just that film is a collaborative medium, and often works best as a collaborative effort.

Is that the generalization you are referring to? If you don't think that is correct that would be a pleasant discussion to have.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

I don't share your feelings. The special editions were released when I was 7. Am I to blame for not having a problem with the changes? I was part of the next generation of fans at the time. Lucas did something right.

I don't begrudge anyone liking anything, but your version is still available. I am not saying replace the special editions with the Unaltered Original Trilogy. I am saying just put it out there too.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

He didn't rape your childhood. That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I don't share your feelings. The special editions were released when I was 7. Am I to blame for not having a problem with the changes? I was part of the next generation of fans at the time. Lucas did something right.

Hey now. I've never said that. I respect and appreciate George Lucas.

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

I don't begrudge anyone liking anything, but your version is still available. I am not saying replace the special editions with the Unaltered Original Trilogy. I am saying just put it out there too.

Don't get me wrong. I was introduced with the old CBS/FOX tapes. But I guess I was more welcoming of the changes. None of them really angered me, not even the Blu Ray changes. I've been trying to figure this out for awhile now.

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Hey now. I've never said that. I respect and appreciate George Lucas.

That statement is in general, not towards you personally. That's for anyone who feels that way. I just wanted to point out how ridiculous that claim is.



PS: Has anyone watched this before? It's pretty funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7WjLT6XnqY&t=10s

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

That statement is in general, not towards you personally. That's for anyone who feels that way. I just wanted to point out how ridiculous that claim is.

Well, you put it in a reply where you quoted me.

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Well, you put it in a reply where you quoted me.

Where else was I going to put it? It came to mind when I was typing.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

Where else was I going to put it?

Maybe wait until somebody actually says it?

[Mefan101]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe wait until somebody actually says it?

I've seen it posted many times all over the place (don't no about here). This thread gives me a chance to say how I feel about the situation.