Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ben Reilly]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

It would be nice to have the Black Cauldron on BD. Still waiting for The War of the Worlds (the 1953 film) to be released on BD. The same goes for Titan A.E.

Both Time Machines would also be good to have on BD!

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

Not sure how accurate or trustworthy this is, but...

http://movieweb.com/star-wars-classi...alter-restore/

Did she really say this?
"I wouldn't touch those, are you kidding me? [laughs] Those will always remain his."
If so, that makes me want to puke. Especially the "Are you kidding me?" part, as if restoring the original versions of the OT is a ridiculous thing to do.

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Did she really say this?
"I wouldn't touch those, are you kidding me? [laughs] Those will always remain his."
If so, that makes me want to puke. Especially the "Are you kidding me?" part, as if restoring the original versions of the OT is a ridiculous thing to do.

That appeared on my facebook feed, and apparently in the full interview she said it in a different context than appears in the movieweb article.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by drush9999

That appeared on my facebook feed, and apparently in the full interview she said it in a different context than appears in the movieweb article.

Exactly. The question asked by the interviewer is so vague it almost sounds like he's asking if the original films will be altered further from what they are now. But in all likelihood, Kennedy probably knew exactly what he was trying to get at and deflected it with her own vague, joking response.

[bobbyh64]

Why did Disney release the soundtracks of the unaltered OT? Doesn't make sense to me if they refuse to release the films. People are going to buy them and be like "What the hell is this Lapti Nek and Yub Nub crap?"

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think they coined the term 'splinter unit' on LOTR, could be wrong on the etymology but the point is that it was such a sprawling shoot that PJ roped in just about whoever he could to grab shots that he needed.

John Ford shot second unit on The Alamo, George Lucas shot second unit on The Godfather, quietly helped out on Return to Oz. Multiple directors oversaw various Disney films, Gone With the Wind had three directors, etc. etc. etc...

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

Not sure how accurate or trustworthy this is, but...

http://movieweb.com/star-wars-classi...alter-restore/

This is where they are getting that from. Fast Forward to 2:45

I don't think they have any plans to restore the unaltered version and wont any time soon, but I will say the question was not asked very clearly. It sounds more like he is asking if there will ever be a new special edition.

Kathleen Kennedy on Altering Star Wars - YouTube

[Arch Stanton]

Hang on, I don't think Lucas actually shot second unit on The Godfather though did he? Wasn't he just a helping hand in the edit?

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm sure they thought it was just a funny paraphrasing of Poe's and Kylo's exchange in The Force Awakens, completely oblivious that people felt snubbed that the original versions weren't mentioned at Celebration (40 years of "what", Kennedy? 40 years of "what"?").

They seriously overestimated the Star Wars fan's sense of humour then.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Mefan101

Fun fact: I've never seen THX 1138. A George Lucas film Pre-Star Wars.

It's pretty good. Watch the unaltered version on VHS, if you can. The BD is digitally altered.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by svenge

You've totally bought into the revisionist claptrap, haven't you? The Star Wars Trilogy was always about Luke. Don't believe me, then how about the opening of the official 1983 Lucasfilm documentary "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga"?

Was always about Luke, are you kidding me? Even when Luke was the focus early on, Vader was a major player.

I am allowed to have an opinion, and for some reason this seems to make you mad? Calm down. You saying "claptrap" would be like me saying everything YOU believe in is moronic. I may speak about things in general, but when you say YOU, that turns it into something personal.

So before we get into YOU are this or that, why don't YOU think about it? I have been scolded, but this is a prime example of what I am talking about. I may have jumped up defending Lucas, but again that is more personal statements (and I have tried to see the error of this kind of way of debating on my part). Lets have fun and have a civilized discussion.

Lets start with a few poster art:




Who is that looming character that is larger than life again? This is early artwork even before the movie was released.

I mean c'mon go back to the movie. Who is that figure that we see first. Other than the rebels scurrying around that first war figure busting in (complete with the sound as the Rebels look up and here that metal shudder as the boarding party begins) who is the man that lays it down...

The power of Luke as a character can only be set after an even bigger figure has given him context.

In case you wasn't around, no one wanted to be Luke growing up. No one wanted to be Luke when it came to Halloween outfits, and when it came to the wall of posters, if you didn't want a Darth Vader poster you was a girl mooning over Luke's looks (which honestly, a lot of girls preferred the smuggler...which I don't understand either, because he pretty much was a coward through most of the movie).

I don't see all that much about Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker being the focus of Star Wars, do you? Hell, Darth Vader wasn't even conceived to be Luke's father until during pre-production of The Empire Strikes Back for crying out loud! Before then he was just some mysterious but powerful goon for the Empire!

You need to look again. Why does it have to be "Anakin" to be important?

Why does he have to be Luke's father to be a big part of the story? How many times did I say VADER. When I say the story before, it wasn't about just fatherhood, it was about wanting to know the man beneath the mask. Wanting to know about a dark figure that slay a gifted man who was a good pilot. By your own quotes you ignore the focus in even the few paragraphs.

In the first paragraph it says that in order for Luke to reach MANHOOD he has to meet his destiny which is to defeat the dark side of the force THE SITH LORD. This tell you right there this isn't some "goon". Let us get a reality check. Luke wasn't even a full Jedi, and yet you are supposed to tell me that Darth Vader who is already the top dog in Luke's goal isn't one of the most important parts of the story? Sure Darth Vader was under Tarken...so what. Is there any doubt with what he was capable of? He was coming up the ranks and using him and we were seeing a plan in motion. What he should have done was killed his ass and taken over. Those clones would follow him anyway to getting those rebels full force (at least Vader was taking to the fight and not betting it all)...but that was just a fantasy..moving on.

This isn't about what Lucas had written before Star Wars, this is about what was actually put to the screen and why I had focused on it. Was I often alone, of course. I remember how there were so many people that loved Boba Fett, or were still following Han. I had those Empire vs Star Wars arguments even way back then.

When I saw Darth Vader say "I have been waiting a long time", that made people that wanted to dig further very curious. While here we have this whine bag searching for who killed his aunt and uncle and most importantly who killed his father (only after Obi Wan begs him to learn the ways of the force), I am thinking, dude there is the guy right here and now! Typical of a young teen, all he cares about is the princess and his hopes of nailing his soon to be found out sister, and there sits the most compelling part of the story. So compelling that there sits an obvious human who has been wounded so bad that he needs a breathing mask outfit.

Even when Darth is fighting Obi Wan he is making excuses for why he lost the fight the first time (I was young and learning), and that history just waiting to be told.

Hell, I actually put the story of Obi Wan higher than Luke in many regards. BUT you see that is my opinion, that is my perception, and that was how I wrote what I wrote. I was taking it from my perspective and how I saw it and still do and how Lucas ultimately saw it. Are you really going to hold something against a guy because he changes his mind? Are you going to torture Lucas back to when he was a child dreaming of Errol Flynn or Flash Gordon?

It is 2017, Star Wars first draft came out in 1975, maybe he had a few ideas in writing before. The point is that we are talking about a span of less than 10 years compared to the 40 years since??? Dude, you need to let it go.

But getting back, another thing that drove me forward, was learning of the Jedi. Not only do we have this lush back story about these great arguable Ninja (I love Ninja's so bear with me) qualities that we loved so much in the early 80's, but also we got that man that beat them all and who like Obi Wan is the last of them!

I haven't accepted, and probably will never accept that Luke was ever really one of those great fighters. Even Darth being an old man it took Luke quite a long time. Good one dude...you beat up a man waaaay past his prime and handicapped.

To close this out

Lets look again at your quotes:

But finally a man must confront his destiny alone. In Return of the Jedi Luke would reach the heart of darkness, with terrible temptations. The vision was unprecedented, so was the task of placing it on film. This is the saga behind the Saga.

Ok so here we go again. Not only are we saying that Luke cannot be a man until he faces Darth Vader the man that killed his father or again later who is his father, but now we are saying that it is tempting to actually succumb and be another Darth Vader? Can you get any more clear than that?

I will leave you with a nice little video that explains it better than I can.

I should put a warning, strong language and may be offensive to some...especially to Luke Skywalker lovers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L9io-b9Uew

[Rodney-2187]

Vader only has 12 minutes of screen time in Star Wars.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Vader only has 12 minutes of screen time in Star Wars.

And yet he still ruled it.

First one in and the one you know is still out there giving us a twinge...that it isn't over down to the last breath.

Bruce Lee often only had a few minutes in the Green Hornet.

Tom Hanks only had a few minutes in his Family Ties episode (should have won an emmy as Uncle Ned).

Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now...etc.

The point is that Darth Vader despite only having a shorter amount of screen time was one of the largest take away of Star Wars. You actually make my point all the more clear.

What is Luke's excuse? Hell even the Princess wanted to nail Han more than him as she looks away from him. I don't blame her though, because without Han, Luke woulda been toast. No amount of force was going to change the fact that Darth "I have you now" was going to happen. BTW, one more example of how Han shoots from behind, shoots from under a table, cuts and runs at every chance...etc. Talk about retcon.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Which will come first; the theatrical OT, Black Cauldron on blu-ray, or Sunflower restored in the Pastoral and/or Song of the South?

Disney has The Chronicles of Prydain in development as a live action remake, and so, for me, that explains why it isn't out yet on Blu-Ray -- the same reason we haven't seen 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea on Blu, because Disney is developing it and has been for a very long time (bizarre they couldn't crack it even with David Fincher interested in it and Australia offering a huge tax incentive to land the production). The Uncut Cauldron is a lost film, people at Disney deny it even exists (while Intrada released the full soundtrack containing the music for the cut scenes). Yay, Jeffrey Katzenberg.

Sunflower is never coming back into Fantasia, ever.

The press and social media firestorm that would ensue (rightly or wrongly) over Song of the South isn't worth whatever short-term revenues gained. It's just not worth it. I had a conversation about it with some activists on a podcast a few years ago, and simply pointed out the movie isn't "racist", it has racial stereotypes, which isn't the same thing, and that didn't go down well. The film is actually the opposite of what people think it is (the film begins with a progressive father moving his family because his writings are inflaming reactionaries, then his son is torn up by abandonment and finds a new father figure/family in Remus). You can explain the movie all day long, but even trying to do that inflames people. It's also boring as hell outside of the animated sequences. In a Cost/Benefit analysis, it's not worth the cost. Really don't get why people won't shut up about it, I chalk it up to Disney fans just wanting to fill the 1946 hole on their collection shelves, because I doubt anyone who sees it is in a huge hurry to watch it again unless they suffer from insomnia.

Make Mine Music is viewed as containing inappropriate content for today's world (gun violence, domestic violence, racial stereotypes). Victory Through Air Power is a specific film made at a specific time of mortal combat between civilizations, I don't see that coming to DMA or Blu-Ray anytime soon. Hang on to that DVD, folks.

Saludos Amigos, The Three Caballeros and Melody Time are the strange outliers, but I know exactly why Saludos and Melody Time were altered for the DVD release...Disney didn't want to get targeted in a lawsuit promoting smoking to children. Roy Disney was very angry when he learned what they had done to his family's films, said if he had known about it, he would have stepped in. Today, the company uses that Pinocchio smoking disclaimer on their films that feature tobacco use, so there's hope for those.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Today, the company uses that Pinocchio smoking disclaimer on their films that feature tobacco use, so there's hope for those.

And thank goodness they left that masterpiece alone (for the most part).

It remains one of Disney's darkest films because of the corruption of a boy. Funny, but I think of the similar themes to Luke Skywalker and the whole destiny thing. The journey to manhood is such a compelling one, no wonder it is so popular to this day.

Too much time is spent on protecting children instead of doing what should be done...scare the crap out of them when appropriate because that is part of growing up.

Thought of another example of short screen time. Hannibal Lecter only got 16 minutes.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

And yet he still ruled it.

First one in and the one you know is still out there giving us a twinge...that it isn't over down to the last breath.

Bruce Lee often only had a few minutes in the Green Hornet.

Tom Hanks only had a few minutes in his Family Ties episode (should have won an emmy as Uncle Ned).

Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now...etc.

The point is that Darth Vader despite only having a shorter amount of screen time was one of the largest take away of Star Wars. You actually make my point all the more clear.

What is Luke's excuse? Hell even the Princess wanted to nail Han more than him as she looks away from him. I don't blame her though, because without Han, Luke woulda been toast. No amount of force was going to change the fact that Darth "I have you now" was going to happen. BTW, one more example of how Han shoots from behind, shoots from under a table, cuts and runs at every chance...etc. Talk about retcon.

But Star Wars was not originally about him. Vader was most definitely iconic from the first moment he appeared, and therefore very marketable as a symbol, but Star Wars was more about Luke, Han and Leia. The prequels are about Anakin, and having that backstory changes our perception of the Original Trilogy and makes it more about Vader. That is one aspect the prequels did well. It is nice when subsequent movies compliment and enhance those made before.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

But Star Wars was not originally about him. Vader was most definitely iconic from the first moment he appeared, and therefore very marketable as a symbol, but Star Wars was more about Luke, Han and Leia. The prequels are about Anakin, and having that backstory changes our perception of the Original Trilogy and makes it more about Vader. That is one aspect the prequels did well. It is nice when subsequent movies compliment and enhance those made before.

From what was filmed I feel you have what you described and then the Vader ObiWan Luke story.

There is no right and wrong. Maybe I saw things in a less popular way, but I cannot accept from very early on in was about the bond of Luke finding who killed his father and eventually avenging his "death" by learning the ways of the force and becoming a jedi like his father.

That was the thread....Han Leia were distractions for me and in a big part why the new movie is weaker (and why Leia and Han felt tacked on by the time of Return).

Vader wasn't just a symbol, but an integral part of story as the peak of the story shows at the end of Return. Even with Shaw in there, the true story was Vader's redemption which makes Luke arch secondary.

We can agree to disagree, but without Vader the Star Wars universe would be boring...Luke not so much. There was a story there before Luke was anything.

[Panama Jack]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why did Disney release the soundtracks of the unaltered OT? Doesn't make sense to me if they refuse to release the films. People are going to buy them and be like "What the hell is this Lapti Nek and Yub Nub crap?"

That's been a very interesting story to follow, actually.

Last year, Sony released The Ultimate Soundtrack Collection in various formats. What made that set interesting was the fact that the CD version of the release had the 2-disc Special Edition versions of the Original Trilogy's soundtracks (along with remastered versions of the normal 1-disc soundtracks for the Prequel Trilogy), but literally every other iteration of the release, whether vinyl, hi-res digital (ANH, ESB, ROTJ), or on iTunes, etc., used restored and remastered versions of the original versions of the soundtracks that came out when each of the original films were released in the 70's and 80's (which, as you noted, come with Lapti-Nek and Yub Nub instead of their Special Edition replacements). No one knows why the CD sets got the 2 disc Special Edition versions, while every other version of the set got the original un-expanded versions.

Another interesting development this year has been that on Jan 1, all of Sony's releases of the soundtracks got pulled from most digital vendors (except on the site I linked to above), and each soundtrack was re-released under the Lucasfilm/Disney label with artwork matching the movies' digital copies (ANH, ESB, ROTJ). Again, however, the versions of the soundtracks that Disney released were the same restored/remastered original 1-disc releases rather than the expanded Special Edition versions. Also, the store I linked to above is the only store I've found that still carries the soundtracks in hi-res. But since the hi-res versions they're selling are the Sony versions (complete with each soundtracks' original artwork), I'm assuming they simply didn't get the memo that they were supposed to stop selling them. So if you want the Original Trilogy's original soundtracks in hi-res (either in 96/24 or 192/24), better get them from the site I linked to above quickly, 'cause who knows how long they'll be there!

The ultimate crux of the current situation, though, is interesting and somewhat paradoxical. Because digitally, right now you can ONLY buy the Special Editions of the films, but can ONLY buy the original non-Special Edition versions of those films' soundtracks.

Crazy times we live in, I tell ya!

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Which will come first; the theatrical OT, Black Cauldron on blu-ray, or Sunflower restored in the Pastoral and/or Song of the South?

Condorman

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

Hang on, I don't think Lucas actually shot second unit on The Godfather though did he? Wasn't he just a helping hand in the edit?

Just some inserts, not officially "2nd Unit Director", same thing with Ford on The Alamo -- uncredited.