Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ben Reilly]

Vader, while big and bad, was just a maketing icon.
Tarkin was the real villian.
Vader was on a leash the whole time, playing second fiddle.

[Ernest Rister]

Jar-Jar destroyed the Republic. Good going, Qui-Gon...Anakin and Jar-Jar, all on you.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Just some inserts, not officially "2nd Unit Director", same thing with Ford on The Alamo -- uncredited.

I had no idea he shot and edited the newspaper inserts. Great stuff, a beautiful scene.

His looped edit of the hallways in the hospital sequence too of course is wonderful. It's a shame Lucas never went on to making other movies after Star Wars - in spite of his inadequacies he has a wonderful visual mind. And American Graffiti is a great film.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

I had no idea he shot and edited the newspaper inserts. Great stuff, a beautiful scene.

His looped edit of the hallways in the hospital sequence too of course is wonderful. It's a shame Lucas never went on to making other movies after Star Wars - in spite of his inadequacies he has a wonderful visual mind. And American Graffiti is a great film.

I love that Lucas worked on the hospital sequence, because if you think about it, that threat to his father is what makes Michael fall into "the family business", not too dissimilar from Anakin's fall in the Prequel narrative.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Condorman

That will work!

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ben Reilly

Vader, while big and bad, was just a maketing icon.
Tarkin was the real villian.
Vader was on a leash the whole time, playing second fiddle.

"Second fiddle" for how long..like a minute? Tarken was in command until he was blown to bits for foolish pride.

Luke was second fiddle to just about everyone. Not following your logic?

News flash, it takes a little bit of time to climb to the top. In case you missed it, Tarken was second fiddle to the Emperor.

One could say that they were both in command with different jobs. So hardly just "on a leash". Matter of fact, I argue that they are equal ranking accept for the fact that Darth Vader took out one of the most promising pilots in the galaxy paired with essentially putting the Jedi in hiding (one way or another).

But again where is Luke in all this...uh shooting womp rats in a T16. Good one.

xxxxxxxx

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I love that Lucas worked on the hospital sequence, because if you think about it, that threat to his father if what makes Michael fall into "the family business", not too dissimilar from Anakin's fall in the Prequel narrative.

I feel some deja vu here. lol

[meglos]

When watching the original Star Wars I always felt like Darth Vader and Admiral Tarkin saw each other as equals, or close to it. There was certainly a mutual respect between them. The other Death Star officers don't seem to respect Darth Vadar very much. It doesn't seem that Vader has an official rank, he's more of a messenger for the Emperor.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by meglos

When watching the original Star Wars I always felt like Darth Vader and Admiral Tarkin saw each other as equals, or close to it. There was certainly a mutual respect between them. The other Death Star officers don't seem to respect Darth Vadar very much. It doesn't seem that Vader has an official rank, he's more of a messenger for the Emperor.

Well you definitely get the impression that the officers of the Death Star don't give a crap about backsassing him, whereas the officers in Empire and beyond tremble if they even look at him funny. There's definitely a disconnect between the first two films regarding his authority.

[meglos]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Well you definitely get the impression that the officers of the Death Star don't give a crap about backsassing him, whereas the officers in Empire and beyond tremble if they even look at him funny. There's definitely a disconnect between the first two films regarding his authority.

By Empire and Jedi he certainly has more authority, respect, fear, or all of the above. It feels like a natural progression to me. Maybe the officers of the Empire were starting to realize that he would become the next Emperor as some point in the future.

[B72]

Originally Posted by meglos

By Empire and Jedi he certainly has more authority, respect, fear, or all of the above. It feels like a natural progression to me. Maybe the officers of the Empire were starting to realize that he would become the next Emperor as some point in the future.

A natural progression sounds about right.
Not to mention Tarkin is no longer holding Vader's leash after Episode IV.

[ElvisForever]

Tarkin was never holding Vader's leash and several times over Vader questions his decisions.

I think what we are seeing with Vader is not as a dissconnect, but an actual climb in heirachy that was happening before our eyes.

Vader was a sith, but that means he also served the Empire. Does that mean he isn't a focus of the story if he is less ranking??

If anything, he was the contrast to the mindless fool that thinks "the technilogical terror" is not only more significant, but it is even to the point that he has no real worry and won't even have an escape ship ready despite being told that there is a weakness that the rbels have found.

When Darth reminds Tarkin, it isn't out of respect.

As for ESB....obviously some time went by. But yes compared to Star Wars, lots of stark changes.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by B72

A natural progression sounds about right.
Not to mention Tarkin is no longer holding Vader's leash after Episode IV.

Not to mention, there was probably less of a foul stench after Tarkin's death.

[Ben Reilly]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Not to mention, there was probably less of a foul stench after Tarkin's death.

Well, obviously... there's no station to hold the stench...

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Tarkin was never holding Vader's leash and several times over Vader questions his decisions.

I think what we are seeing with Vader is not as a dissconnect, but an actual climb in heirachy that was happening before our eyes.

As for ESB....obviously some time went by. But yes compared to Star Wars, lots of stark changes.

"Governor Tarkin, I should've expected to find you holding Vader's leash."

I kind of see your take on the Vader situation. In keeping with the characterization in Rogue One, it totally fits that he is basically an enforcer, without a "rank". He goes over in person to board the Rebel ship and takes on the Rebels on his own, face to face. Shortly after during the beginning of Star Wars he is again in person on the Tantive IV, physically choking Captain Antilles. He has a lack of respect from his peers, and it takes an order from Tarkin for him to not kill General Motti. At the end he even goes out "Ship to ship" to take on the Rebels. Then of course Tarkin is killed, and the Death Star is destroyed, so the Emperor's plan of using the Death Star as a weapon of fear has been thwarted. He then proceeds to redirect that onto Vader to be the icon to project fear into the Galaxy, starting with the Imperial Officers. Anyone showing him any disrespect will be dispatched. That fear carries down the ranks, ergo the presence and command that he has by the beginning of Empire.

Oh, and although there were many drafts of the script, when it came time for filming, the first character you would have seen was Luke. However Lucas edited that scene from the beginning of Star Wars because of "pacing", but even from the shooting script Luke was planned as the first character to appear. Oh yeah I guess 3PO and R2 are seen first now. Is the saga about them then?

[ElvisForever]

All very interesting observations. We are in complete agreement on Tarkin. But you see there is one small detail. I have stated that the movies thrust is Vader (if it was just Anakin I wouldn't be making the case) because of the power/fear and then the redemption.

Perhaps you missed when I stated that his presence was more then when he was seen. It was also about what was heard. When the droids were running, their introductions were narrators (which they always were if you really get down to it). Do you say the guy that intoduces the cabaret for example is the main character?

Remember through all of this, I am discussing my experience and the impact it had on me. I know opinions differ. I will go one step further. I know there are elements that meant it to be Luke, but it is what it turned out to be, more than just what was written.

I don't think Lucas saw it at first either. It was a subconcious thing.

I got it the moment the lush history about the clone wars was laid out. In lots of ways it is a pity we weren't left to wonder with just one movie...or Lucas didn't film it back then. I like Han's character in the first movie far more than the second. I would argue the same about all of them really.....well except for Darth. Even with Haydn, I think his character is the one constant that never wavers which is why I prefer his ending in Jedi.

Every character to me is less in any sequel/prequel when repeated except for Darth Vader and that is really saying something.

[bobbyh64]

I think there can be a difference between a main character and a larger-than-life character that drives a movie/series forward. In the OT I view Luke as the main character because he's who the audience identifies with the most in my opinion. But sure, at the end of Jedi it seems as both Luke and Vader/Anakin are the main characters, but at that point I think the moral or message of the story is more important than any single character. Maybe the Force is the main character.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Michael24

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure the 1997 releases have everything from the "Anthology" discs and more. For example, the music when the Millennium Falcon escapes from inside the space slug in ESB is missing from the "Anthology" but included on the expanded release. Of course, the original Ewok celebration music is missing from the expanded version, as is "Lapti Nek."

I think the Anthology has several alternate takes of certain tracks that aren't on the 1997/2004 releases, but other than that I think you're right.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I think there can be a difference between a main character and a larger-than-life character that drives a movie/series forward. In the OT I view Luke as the main character because he's who the audience identifies with the most in my opinion. But sure, at the end of Jedi it seems as both Luke and Vader/Anakin are the main characters, but at that point I think the moral or message of the story is more important than any single character. Maybe the Force is the main character.

I have said before at the least it is the Skywalker story.

You have to ask yourself one question. Could the story exist without Darth or Luke?

I understand that we are made to feel like Luke in a conventional sense...but for me I indentify with Vader now give me back those plans you rebel scum. To keep peace, one must keep the threat of war alive. .ha ha ha ha ha!

Janet Leigh was who we were supposed to indentify with, in Psycho for example, but honestly I felt more for Norman Bates and as the series went on...even more so.

Xxxxx

My point with the Anthology bix set was weren't they in unedited form? Fantastic box set for the time regardless and more complete for those reasons.

[bobbyh64]

I agree with you about Janet Leigh in Psycho. She didn't really seem like a main character to me. It's hard to identify with a stupid criminal who dies halfway through a movie.

Regarding the Soundtrack Anthology, I'm not sure exactly what happened, but on Wikipedia it says:

"Since every cue is recorded several times, usually with varying orchestral differences, the final decisions on what takes of cues are used and/or how they are edited to create the tracks was decided by the music editor Kenneth Wannberg. In the time between the original LP release and the Anthology's release, this breakdown was lost. Because of this, many takes of cues used on the Anthology are not the same. This is most obvious on the cue "The Throne Room".[citation needed] Also, the tracks were re-arranged to better follow their chronological order in the film."

It doesn't say if the tracks were unedited, but I think they just edited different takes together in some cases. How common is it for an album like this to have each track come from a single take?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I agree with you about Janet Leigh in Psycho. She didn't really seem like a main character to me. It's hard to identify with a stupid criminal who dies halfway through a movie.

Regarding the Soundtrack Anthology, I'm not sure exactly what happened, but on Wikipedia it says:

"Since every cue is recorded several times, usually with varying orchestral differences, the final decisions on what takes of cues are used and/or how they are edited to create the tracks was decided by the music editor Kenneth Wannberg. In the time between the original LP release and the Anthology's release, this breakdown was lost. Because of this, many takes of cues used on the Anthology are not the same. This is most obvious on the cue "The Throne Room".[citation needed] Also, the tracks were re-arranged to better follow their chronological order in the film."

It doesn't say if the tracks were unedited, but I think they just edited different takes together in some cases. How common is it for an album like this to have each track come from a single take?

Well that most certainly is an eye opener and a great point. I am sure there was degrees of hodge podge in the set. I am probably working more from Nostalgia vs completeness.

I prefer to listen to the tracks in the way they were released anyway. While getting a hold of all the takes of John Williams would be pretty cool, in reality it is like having the Pet Sounds box set. I enjoy the "extras" a few times, but it doesn't break my heart to not have the the skeleton before it is in final release form.

That is why I got rid of the box set so long ago. Thanks for the reminder.