Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Lionel Horsepackage]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Why couldn't the Jedi pre-date the Republic?

They basically did (the early incarnation of the order was founded on Tython around 36,000 BBY), and when the Old Republic was established circa 25,000 BBY, the Jedi basically became the de facto protectors of it, since they'd already been pretty much a known quantity for the past 11,000 years or thereabouts.

The Ruusan Reformation of the Republic (following the massive war which Darth Bane and other Sith nearly destroyed the Republic) occurred around 1,000 BBY (Before the Battle of Yavin), and many in-universe historians consider the Republic to have been "re-founded" on that date...the current incarnation as of the prequel trilogy, in effect (which is what Palpatine was referring to in that AOTC scene).

[Gold Ranger]

Never liked that the Battle of Yavin was the Zero-Point year. It should be the Battle of Endor as that is when the Empire and Emperor were truly defeated.

[Class316]

Obi Wan simply believed that Luke is/was the most qualified to take down Vader. Yoda had more faith in the female. No inconsistencies.

And yes, the Jedi existed long before the Republic shown in the prequels. Nothing strange about that.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Much better than the current Trilogy (Duology)
Then again, I am an OT fan and I love the Prequels and hate the Sequels.

Hate leads to the dark side.

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

1:
Ep 4: Obi-Wan: "For over a thousand Generations, the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace and justice throughout the Galaxy."

Ep 2: Palpatine: "I will not let this Republic, which has stood for 1,000 years..."
Later retconned in books and comics as that version of the government, but most don't read anymore. Eps 7 and 8 fall into this trap but much, much worse. You do NOT make a series of movies and have a lot of the crucial stuff that you are supposed to know about going in, filled in for you at a later time in various other forms of media.

2:
Ep 5: Obi-Wan: "That boy was our last hope." Yoda: "No, there is another."

Ep 3: Obi-Wan is present when Leia is born

I just figured Obi-Wan didn't think she had force capabilities when the twins were born. He detected Luke's, though.

[stvn1974]

No, when Empire was written Leia wasn't Luke's sister. When it came time to write the Prequels Lucas couldn't be bothered with continuity so we have what we have.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

No, when Empire was written Leia wasn't Luke's sister. When it came time to write the Prequels Lucas couldn't be bothered with continuity so we have what we have.

If Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister when Empire was written, who was Yoda referring to when he said “There is another”?

[Class316]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

No, when Empire was written Leia wasn't Luke's sister. When it came time to write the Prequels Lucas couldn't be bothered with continuity so we have what we have.

Whether or not Leia was Luke's sister when it was written, there was a foreshadowing of something. Because at the end of Empire Leia senses Luke.

[Alan_Grant]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

No, when Empire was written Leia wasn't Luke's sister. When it came time to write the Prequels Lucas couldn't be bothered with continuity so we have what we have.

Oooooooooor Obi-Wan wasn't aware of Leia having force capabilities? But no, any way we can bash Lucas.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Oooooooooor Obi-Wan wasn't aware of Leia having force capabilities? But no, any way we can bash Lucas.

Wasn't aware? He practically delivered her. But it never occurred to him that both of the Chosen One's kids might have force capabilities?

As continuity goes that one is a bit hard to reconcile.

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by Class316

Whether or not Leia was Luke's sister when it was written, there was a foreshadowing of something. Because at the end of Empire Leia senses Luke.

The "rules" of the Force were not as clearly defined at the time. There's nothing in Empire to suggest that Leia has to be powerful in the Force in order to sense Luke's cry for help. It only seems that way retroactively, because we all watch Empire with the siblings twist from RotJ in mind. Luke is using his powers to reach her, not entirely dissimilar from how Obi-Wan is able to manipulate the thoughts of the stormtrooper in the original movie. Luke is able to "speak" to Leia because he's powerful in the Force, not because she is. He could've just as easily called out to Lando or Chewbacca, but Leia was obviously the right choice from a dramatic storytelling/emotional standpoint.

It's like the exchange between Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen in the original movie when they're discussing Luke.

Aunt Beru: He has too much of his father in him.
Uncle Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.

Darth Vader was not designed to be Luke's father at the time. Uncle Owen was simply worried that Luke, like Anakin, would go off on a crazy adventure and get himself killed. But, we all watch the original movie with the "I am your father" reveal in mind, so Uncle Owen's line takes on a whole new meaning retroactively.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vulture Lives

But, we all watch the original movie with the "I am your father" reveal in mind, so Uncle Owen's line takes on a whole new meaning retroactively.

Exactly. We can put Leia resisting the mind probe in that bucket too.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Vulture Lives

The "rules" of the Force were not as clearly defined at the time. There's nothing in Empire to suggest that Leia has to be powerful in the Force in order to sense Luke's cry for help. It only seems that way retroactively, because we all watch Empire with the siblings twist from RotJ in mind. Luke is using his powers to reach her, not entirely dissimilar from how Obi-Wan is able to manipulate the thoughts of the stormtrooper in the original movie. Luke is able to "speak" to Leia because he's powerful in the Force, not because she is. He could've just as easily called out to Lando or Chewbacca, but Leia was obviously the right choice from a dramatic storytelling/emotional standpoint.

It's like the exchange between Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen in the original movie when they're discussing Luke.

Aunt Beru: He has too much of his father in him.
Uncle Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.

Darth Vader was not designed to be Luke's father at the time. Uncle Owen was simply worried that Luke, like Anakin, would go off on a crazy adventure and get himself killed. But, we all watch the original movie with the "I am your father" reveal in mind, so Uncle Owen's line takes on a whole new meaning retroactively.

I completely understand what you're saying, but to me it doesn't seem like Luke is calling out to Leia instead of Chewy. It seems to me like Leia just happens to sense him. Hence it is implied she is force sensitive (whether or not she's his sister).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Class316

I completely understand what you're saying, but to me it doesn't seem like Luke is calling out to Leia instead of Chewy. It seems to me like Leia just happens to sense him. Hence it is implied she is force sensitive (whether or not she's his sister).

Doesn't he say something like 'Leia...hear me' though?

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by octagon

Doesn't he say something like 'Leia...hear me' though?

He absolutely refers to Leia by name, and it makes perfect sense. He was closer to Leia than any of the other characters, and he had a romantic attraction to her, as well (if they were designed to be siblings at the time, which they weren't, then George, the old devil, was being pretty damned subversive with the sexual attraction between the two characters, don't you think?). Naturally, Luke is going to call out to her, for the reasons stated above. Like I said, it just makes sense from a dramatic storytelling standpoint. It would've been comical if he called out to Chewbacca, and he knew nothing about Lando.

[Vandal Savage]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

If Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister when Empire was written, who was Yoda referring to when he said “There is another”?

At the time ESB was made, the plan was for Luke to have a twin sister who was not Leia. She would have been introduced in Episode VIII.

But when it came time to make ROTJ, Lucas decided to close the story out and gave Leia the sister role. In the original plan, the Empire would have defeated the Rebellion in VI, and the Emperor would not have appeared until IX. I guess the hologram in V didn't count.

[JimSmith]

Originally Posted by Stanis

Ohhh, you're problem is watching the first trilogy! heh

But both trilogies is part of the bigger Star Wars story overall.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by octagon

Wasn't aware? He practically delivered her. But it never occurred to him that both of the Chosen One's kids might have force capabilities?

As continuity goes that one is a bit hard to reconcile.

Why not? He watched Luke grow up (albeit from afar) and even knew of his piloting skills. He didn't see Leia grow up on Alderaan.


The Force Awakens basically established the Force can be "inert" in someone, like Rey. Leia's Force abilities were dormant.

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

At the time ESB was made, the plan was for Luke to have a twin sister who was not Leia. She would have been introduced in Episode VIII.

That's definitely a prevalent theory, and could be correct. Another theory is that even the filmmakers weren't yet sure of the identity of the character, and it would be determined later. Or, as Lucas himself puts it on the Empire commentary track, it was a line ("no, there is another") that was included in an attempt to trick the audience into thinking that Luke was expendable, this way the audience would become fearful that Luke might die during his confrontation with Vader, and the line had no greater purpose than that. It was a line that was included for no reason other than to create tension in the audience, says Lucas on the commentary track. Whether you choose to believe him or not is up to you.

The point is that Lucas decided to wrap up the series with RotJ, and having Leia fill the role of "the other" at the last minute solved two problems:

1. It saved Lucas from having to shoehorn in a brand new character within the space of one movie, which was also meant to be the final movie.

2. It neatly wrapped up the love triangle between Luke, Leia, and Han (although it certainly made some things awkward in retrospect).

And, that's pretty much it.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Why not? He watched Luke grow up (albeit from afar) and even knew of his piloting skills. He didn't see Leia grow up on Alderaan.


The Force Awakens basically established the Force can be "inert" in someone, like Rey. Leia's Force abilities were dormant.

So after Yoda says 'no, there is another' you're picturing the conversation continuing something along the lines of 'whoa, cool, where?'...'dumbass, a twin sister, Luke has...delivered her, you did'...'oh, shit, right...we should totally look into that if this falls through' -force ghost head smack- 'I can't believe that never crossed my mind'.