Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Luke Skywalker: Ten thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that.
Han Solo: But who’s going to fly it kid? You?
Luke Skywalker: You bet I could, I’m not such a bad pilot myself. (starts to get up) We don’t have to sit here and listen…

---------

Wedge Antilles (Red 2): That's impossible! Even for a computer.
Luke: It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

---------
LEADER: You sure you can handle this ship?
BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories.

Finn: Now that was some flying.
Rey: Thanks.
Finn: How did you do that?
Rey: I don't know. I've flown some ships, but I've never left the planet.

[reanimator]

At least Luke has a last name.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by reanimator

At least Luke has a last name.

What does that have to do with anything?

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

What does that have to do with anything?

It speaks to how thinly drawn her character is.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Rey being a natural with everything fits the franchise. I'll NEVER understand that complaint. Both little boy Anakin and Luke were shown to be naturally talented before training. Kylo was bleeding out when she fought him in TFA. It's seriously fine. Stop obsessing over it.

Originally Posted by rexcrk

This guy gets it.

If Rey was a male, I honest to goodness think there wouldn’t be such an outcry.

Being naturally talented at everything is not the trait of a good character. It has nothing to do with gender.

In ANH, we see Luke train with a lightsaber BECAUSE Ben thinks it's necessary. Luke doesn't use his lightsaber until the end of the next movie after he was trained by a Jedi master.

Now, in episodes 7 & 8, the Force has turned into Harry Potter magic. No more training and learning the ways of it. You just have it. "Hey, get over here, broom!"

The Last Jedi Ending Scene (Broom Boy) 1080p - YouTube

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by reanimator

It speaks to how thinly drawn her character is.

So Yoda is a thinly drawn character too?

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Finn: Now that was some flying.
Rey: Thanks.
Finn: How did you do that?
Rey: I don't know. I've flown some ships, but I've never left the planet.

I think the way it was setup and written for Luke worked far, far better in ANH, and his piloting skills were also the culmination of his arc in that film. He goes from a simple farm boy, to being a fighter pilot in the Rebel Alliance against the Empire as the big ending. That’s, to me, why it works so well, and is so satisfying.

Rey, on the other hand, is introduced as a scavenger, who then jumps in the Falcon about 30 mins into the film, and after a few bumps, flies it like a total pro, ending with a really fancy manoeuvre. Nothing had been setup about her having any piloting skills at all, and the dialogue you quoted above to justify this after the fact, feels rather shoehorned in there.

It works for a lot of people, not so much for me.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Finn: Now that was some flying.
Rey: Thanks.
Finn: How did you do that?
Rey: I don't know. I've flown some ships, but I've never left the planet.

Luke is established as a good pilot. But, in this movie, we get one throwaway line that Rey's flown ships yet doesn't know how she became an ace pilot with sick evasive tactical moves in a complicated ship. Does the Force teach you which buttons to press and switches to switch?

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

So Yoda is a thinly drawn character too?

Yoda is not the lead character in this story. Yoda is a supporting character who does not need the same level of complexity and depth that a lead character requires.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by reanimator

It speaks to how thinly drawn her character is.

That argument has no weight, when other fantasy worlds, like the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender, have lots of memorable main characters that are only known by their first names.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Rey, on the other hand, is introduced as a scavenger, who then jumps in the Falcon about 30 mins into the film, and after a few bumps, flies it like a total pro, ending with a really fancy manoeuvre. Nothing had been setup about her having any piloting skills at all, and the dialogue you quoted above to justify this after the fact, feels rather shoehorned in there.

The first rule of screenwriting is "show, don't tell." We are SHOWN what kind of a pilot she is, based on that scene. THAT is our setup.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by reanimator

Yoda is not the lead character in this story. Yoda is a supporting character who does not need the same level of complexity and depth that a lead character requires.

How does having a last name give a character complexity and depth?

[Gold Ranger]

but we are told just after that she isn't a pilot. The scenes negate each other.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

That argument has no weight, when other fantasy worlds, like the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender, have lots of memorable main characters that are only known by their first names.

I'm not saying she's a superficial character because she only has one name. I'm saying she IS a superficial character, and only having one name illustrates how little thought the writers put into creating her.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by reanimator

I'm saying she IS a superficial character, and only having one name illustrates how little thought the writers put into creating her.

She doesn't have a last name because she is a nobody from nowhere, and is therefore probably not even documented in any birth-record or similar. But that's what makes her so special.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

She doesn't have a last name because she is a nobody from nowhere, and is therefore probably not even documented in any birth-record or similar. But that's what makes her so special.

She's special because she's a nobody, or she's special in spite of being a nobody?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

She's special because she's a nobody, or she's special in spite of being a nobody?

The former. The hero to equal Kylo Ren was not destined from birth or written in the stars, she was dumped like garbage and, in the face of despair, never gave up hope.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The first rule of screenwriting is "show, don't tell." We are SHOWN what kind of a pilot she is, based on that scene. THAT is our setup.

Yes, that means showing the audience something about a character, or a skill they have, instead of simply telling them. But that doesn’t then automatically excuse everything a character does from criticism. We saw Rey was a good fighter, we saw she was a good pilot, we saw she could do Jedi mind tricks with no training, we saw she could Force pull lightsabers, we saw she could fight with a lightsaber and hold her own against the villain having never used one before.

So because we are shown all this, it makes it automatically fine, because show don’t tell? So in Episode 9, if Rey takes off like Superman and flies into space, that’s ok too because of show don’t tell?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

So in Episode 9, if Rey takes off like Superman and flies into space, that’s ok too because of show don’t tell?

She wasn't flying, it was a Force pull.

[Hardback247]

This kid seems to understand TLJ a lot easier upon first viewing than most of you adults:

STAR WARS: The Last Jedi - My Son's ANXIOUS First-Time Reaction - YouTube