Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[CreasyBear]

Everyone I know thought AOTC was awesome.

Because it was and still is.

[motorheadache95]

I used to flip between Episode I and II being the worst Star Wars film, but I've pretty much at this point settled with II. Phantom Menace was kind of the overall duller film, but the lows of Episode II are worse than anything in Menace.

The bad writing and acting, the entire plot of the film (Sifo-Dyas, anyone?) and the dated digital photography and effects really cemented it in for me. Even the climax that some people laud as the consolation prize I don't find very good, as there's no emotional core to ground the action. The Yoda fight was somewhat amusing at the time, but as a Jedi in action, he was more impressive in Episode III.

As far as playing the anecdotal "did everyone like this back in 2002?" game, I remember everyone being more enamored with Spider-Man (which I thought was a bit overrated). I don't recall a lot of good buzz for the film, but this was just among me and people I knew. The trailer didn't look good, the title was kind of laughable, and there was that whole story coming out about Lucas putting N'Sync into the film (there was even an SNL sketch about it). He cut it out, but honestly when watching the film, he might as well have left them in, even cut out some scenes to give them a couple of song numbers

[klauswhereareyou]

I like the action scenes in AOTC. I think the problem is that the "love story" scenes are just so terrible that they really bring the film to a halt, even more than the a lot of those terrible exposition/plot dump scenes in Phantom Menace.

Sidenote: I'm currently watching Phantom Menace on Blu-ray and I really wish that the picture looked better than it does. It's pretty obvious that they tried to wipe it clean of film grain and make it look more like the other two prequels that were shot digitally.

[CreasyBear]

The love story and political scenes in TPM and AOTC are the main draw, as I get older. I love seeing the machinations of a galactic republic and I absolutely love how Lucas handled the love story. It's really less a love story than it is of two people starved of affection taking solace in one and other. Hayden's portrayal of a 17 year-old Anakin, in dooey eyed love trying to confide in Padme, who is not used to such things either, is really wonderful.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

The love story and political scenes in TPM and AOTC are the main draw, as I get older. I love seeing the machinations of a galactic republic and I absolutely love how Lucas handled the love story. It's really less a love story than it is of two people starved of affection taking solace in one and other. Hayden's portrayal of a 17 year-old Anakin, in dooey eyed love trying to confide in Padme, who is not used to such things either, is really wonderful.

That's not wonderful. That's creepy.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

That's not wonderful. That's creepy.

And that's not from the movie or scenes I'm talking about.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

And that's not from the movie or scenes I'm talking about.

Just prooves that the entire PT is f'd.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

I like the action scenes in AOTC. I think the problem is that the "love story" scenes are just so terrible that they really bring the film to a halt, even more than the a lot of those terrible exposition/plot dump scenes in Phantom Menace.

Sidenote: I'm currently watching Phantom Menace on Blu-ray and I really wish that the picture looked better than it does. It's pretty obvious that they tried to wipe it clean of film grain and make it look more like the other two prequels that were shot digitally.

"The Love story" has scenes so mind-boggling in it's awfulness I still can't believe they were written, shot, and approved by someone to end up in the movie. And while nowhere near as purely awful, I wasn't exactly enamored with the other plot-thread of Obi Wan wandering around finding the clones. And those two pieces were a huge part of the movie.

As to your sidenote: The Blu-Ray transfer may have been a misguided attempt to make it look more "digital" like the other two, which is what I assumed until that terrible Terminator 2 UHD came out. Then I realized Phantom Menace may have been the same thing-- they did a DNR pass when preparing the 3D conversion, then simply used that master for the Blu-Ray without really regarding whether or not is was the best 2D transfer they could have produced.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

"The Love story" has scenes so mind-boggling in it's awfulness I still can't believe they were written, shot, and approved by someone to end up in the movie. And while nowhere near as purely awful, I wasn't exactly enamored with the other plot-thread of Obi Wan wandering around finding the clones. And those two pieces were a huge part of the movie.

As to your sidenote: The Blu-Ray transfer may have been a misguided attempt to make it look more "digital" like the other two, which is what I assumed until that terrible Terminator 2 UHD came out. Then I realized Phantom Menace may have been the same thing-- they did a DNR pass when preparing the 3D conversion, then simply used that master for the Blu-Ray without really regarding whether or not is was the best 2D transfer they could have produced.

Agreed on both points, but particularly the side-note. You can really see how bad the DNR is in the closeups of Neeson, McGregor, and Lloyd.

[nodeerforamonth]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No, it was poor upon release in terms of its comparison to other Star Wars films and its still poor. Even when I saw it theatrically at 17 I was extremely disappointed by it and I worked at Blockbuster at the time where not many customers were enthused by it.

I remember people thinking it was a HUGE step up from the Phantom Menace. I even went back to some of the archived message boards I'd frequent back then. People liked it

[nodeerforamonth]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

Just prooves that the entire PT is f'd.

The funny thing is, is that the people who saw the PT as kids, they love it. It's THEIR nostalgia. The biggest request in the star wars video game world? Prequel stuff.

[spudeus]

AotC - the 'your skin is smoother than sand' / let's ride giant fleas / fruit floating dinner scenes are just so abysmally bad that they cancel out the well-made action scenes. It's almost like two movies grafted together - one D-level romance and one pretty epic space opera.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth

I remember people thinking it was a HUGE step up from the Phantom Menace. I even went back to some of the archived message boards I'd frequent back then. People liked it

I rarely came across anyone first hand who felt that way. When TPM was announced theatrically most people were extremely hyped up about it and felt it was good in a Star Wars rose colored glasses kind of way for a couple months. Then most people seemed to realize TPM was rather poor in comparison to the OT. When AOTC was released people were hopeful, but much more apprehensive. I remember that the DVDs did not rent as well as expected in 2002.

[klauswhereareyou]

I remember people just being high on the fact that Jar Jar had a very minimal role in AOTC, and that reason right there got some people to at least at the time claim it was better than PM.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I rarely came across anyone first hand who felt that way. When TPM was announced theatrically most people were extremely hyped up about it and felt it was good in a Star Wars rose colored glasses kind of way for a couple months. Then most people seemed to realize TPM was rather poor in comparison to the OT. When AOTC was released people were hopeful, but much more apprehensive. I remember that the DVDs did not rent as well as expected in 2002.

I thought AOTC was HUGE step up when it arrived; even saw it four times in the theaters. But I admit I was one of those who thought PHANTOM MENACE raped my childhood, even if I never expressed it in those absurd terms. Man, I hated that first movie when it arrived. It was the perfect storm of "geniuinely not living up to the original trilogy" and "being too hard on it 'cuz I was 28 years old and in the height of my most pretentious stage of life". Luckily, I've since learned to enjoy PHANTOM MENACE for what it is, even if I still do think it's a rough start to the Saga. And I still do hold the opinion that AOTC is my favorite of the prequels. I won't say the "best", 'cuz that's subjective; but it is inarguably "my favorite".

I also, however, think it works fantastically as a single-prequel flashback. Hear me out. Imagine starting with the original STAR WARS (I still refuse to call it "A New Hope"), then watching EMPIRE STRIKES BACK... Darth Vader says "hey dude, I'm you're father"... whaaaaa??... watch AOTC as a flashback that shows almost everything you ever wanted to see: Obi-and-Ani, Palps doin' his rise to power, army of Jedi fighting side by side, beginning of the Clone Wars, even (gag) Ani and Padme... but there's no turn to the dark-side. Is Vader lying? WAS he Anakin Skywalker? Watch RETURN OF THE JEDI next and learn the truth from Yoda, just as was originally intended. Similar to the so-called machete order, but AOTC is really all you need if you want to keep the original reveals intact.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I thought AOTC was HUGE step up when it arrived; even saw it four times in the theaters. But I admit I was one of those who thought PHANTOM MENACE raped my childhood, even if I never expressed it in those absurd terms. Man, I hated that first movie when it arrived. It was the perfect storm of "geniuinely not living up to the original trilogy" and "being too hard on it 'cuz I was 28 years old and in the height of my most pretentious stage of life". Luckily, I've since learned to enjoy PHANTOM MENACE for what it is, even if I still do think it's a rough start to the Saga. And I still do hold the opinion that AOTC is my favorite of the prequels. I won't say the "best", 'cuz that's subjective; but it is inarguably "my favorite".

I also, however, think it works fantastically as a single-prequel flashback. Hear me out. Imagine starting with the original STAR WARS (I still refuse to call it "A New Hope"), then watching EMPIRE STRIKES BACK... Darth Vader says "hey dude, I'm you're father"... whaaaaa??... watch AOTC as a flashback that shows almost everything you ever wanted to see: Obi-and-Ani, Palps doin' his rise to power, army of Jedi fighting side by side, beginning of the Clone Wars, even (gag) Ani and Padme... but there's no turn to the dark-side. Is Vader lying? WAS he Anakin Skywalker? Watch RETURN OF THE JEDI next and learn the truth from Yoda, just as was originally intended. Similar to the so-called machete order, but AOTC is really all you need if you want to keep the original reveals intact.

I agree with your second point that on its own it works that way. However, with knowing the entire saga intimately it really is a painful and nearly dreadful mess to endure. With that said I would hate to skip out on the pod race, Darth's Maul show of force, and Anakin's ultimate downfall in ROTS.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I agree with your second point that on its own it works that way. However, with knowing the entire saga intimately it really is a painful and nearly dreadful mess to endure. With that said I would hate to skip out on the pod race, Darth's Maul show of force, and Anakin's ultimate downfall in ROTS.

Full disclosure (regarding "missing Anakin's ultimate downfall in ROTS")... and I'm sure I'm the only one on these forums with this opinion... but I consider the second half of ROTS -- from the moment Mace and Co. arrive to confront Palpatine onward -- is the worst hour of all the STAR WARS movies. Almost unendurable, for me. I think Anakin's turn and everything after is so badly handled that it still makes me angry to watch; even though I try to claim I'm the "all STAR WARS is good STAR WARS guy". Every rushed plot point, every horribly on-the-nose line of dialogue... it's such a hugely mishandled opportunity, in my opinion. So I can certainly live without it.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Full disclosure (regarding "missing Anakin's ultimate downfall in ROTS")... and I'm sure I'm the only one on these forums with this opinion... but I consider the second half of ROTS -- from the moment Mace and Co. arrive to confront Palpatine onward -- is the worst hour of all the STAR WARS movies. Almost unendurable, for me. I think Anakin's turn and everything after is so badly handled that it still makes me angry to watch; even though I try to claim I'm the "all STAR WARS is good STAR WARS guy". Every rushed plot point, every horribly on-the-nose line of dialogue... it's such a hugely mishandled opportunity, in my opinion. So I can certainly live without it.

I can't agree on this point. In my opinion ROTS helps cement why Obi-Wan feels the way he does about Anakin when we see him in ANH. This is why I still firmly believe that McGregor is the best thing about the prequel trilogy.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I can't agree on this point. In my opinion ROTS helps cement why Obi-Wan feels the way he does about Anakin when we see him in ANH. This is why I still firmly believe that McGregor is the best thing about the prequel trilogy.

I agree the EVENTS of ROTS did all that, and I do agree that McGregor is the best thing about the prequels... but the botched (IMHO) EXECUTION of ROTS gets me every time. Even if I go in with a good attitude and a whiskey, lol. I want to like it -- every time -- because the EVENTS of the movie are kickass... but that's the infuriating thing about the prequels, right? The ideas are phenomenal, but the execution....

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I agree the EVENTS of ROTS did all that, and I do agree that McGregor is the best thing about the prequels... but the botched (IMHO) EXECUTION of ROTS gets me every time. Even if I go in with a good attitude and a whiskey, lol. I want to like it -- every time -- because the EVENTS of the movie are kickass... but that's the infuriating thing about the prequels, right? The ideas are phenomenal, but the execution....

You just summed up George Lucas perfectly. This is why Kirshner's TESB is easily the best film in the entire saga. He took Lucas' ideas and brought powerhouse execution.