Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Disney has always had an interesting relationship with Criterion, in that for Disney owned films that are part of the Criterion collection, Criterion produces/authors the sets, but Disney (via Buena Vista) manufactures and distributes them. I'm not sure they're make a Criterion set of Star Wars though.

Disney isn't against including alternate cuts for films though, when they exist, even a cut with limited. The animated Beauty and the Beast Blu-ray has 3 cuts on it, including a workprint cut, although there's some minor issues with the seamless branching on one that made one scene look like how it appeared in another.

I think the likeliest release of the unaltered cuts would be as a bonus feature on a new "Complete Saga" set comprising of episodes 1-9. I don't think they'd ever get a standalone release without the new cuts accompanying them, since Lucas considers the new cuts the "true" version of the films, but they may be able to get away with including them as a "bonus," like the LE DVDs. Also, the price premium on getting people to buy a massive 9 movie set could justify including them as extras.

Didn't even say that them being 'alternative cuts' is a problem in itself for Disnee. But we all know why the UOT won't be coming and there are no technical reasons to do with it at all, it's still down to one man. And I know they've done a few Criterions over the years but most labels are just getting rebuffed by the Mouse now. Or maybe Criterion's first UHD discs will be the original Original Trilogy!??!

I'd love to see them included as 'special features' on the big-bastard 4K boxset along with the original theatrical versions of the prequels and the 3D versions of the prequels too, but that's all pretty much a pipedream.

[Scottishguy]

Has Lucas ever addressed the Han Solo CGI rubber neck dodge?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Has Lucas ever addressed the Han Solo CGI rubber neck dodge?

Yes. Lucas from 2012:

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."

So, to make this fit his opinion we got the clumsily done neck dodge.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Yes. Lucas from 2012:

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."

So, to make this fit his opinion we got the clumsily done neck dodge.

Ah see I think I've only read quotes from that. I never thought Han was cold bloody killer. Greedo was pointing a gun at him...

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Ah see I think I've only read quotes from that. I never thought Han was cold bloody killer. Greedo was pointing a gun at him...

Yeah, Lucas has bounced around like a tennis ball on this point over the years.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I streamed some of TPM and the first episode of The Mandalorian last night in 4K HDR. TPM still looks like a DNR mess with better colors while The Mandalorian looks absolutely impeccable.

Shame about the Cg/live action blending in Mandalorian

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Yes. Lucas from 2012:

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."

So, to make this fit his opinion we got the clumsily done neck dodge.

Thing is the original script contradicts that claim.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Shame about the Cg/live action blending in Mandalorian

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Thing is the original script contradicts that claim.

The script Alec Guinness saved with his input

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Thing is the original script contradicts that claim.

I was just quoting what Lucas said on the 2011 cut.

[Geoff D]

Lucas never liked the casual violence in Star Wars, even going so far as to lament it when he spoke to Dale Pollack for his biography of Lucas in 1983, which is why the blaster hits on some of the Death Star personnel were censored for the SEs as well (and that doesn't seem to have changed for the 4K's, someone mentioned that one dude still gets hit in close-up but the previous SE revisions were like that as well, they censored some blaster hits but not others).

He altered the Han scene but has never been happy with it since, he actually said in a much more recent interview that if he knew how much of a kerfuffle it'd cause he wouldn't have changed it at all, but Lucas gonna Lucas: if he were to change it back to the way it was that would mean him kowtowing to the fans and that's not gonna happen (ditto for releasing the remastered UOT). So instead he's fiddled with it and fiddled with it and fiddled with it and fiddled with it some more, and to me this latest version is about as good as it's gonna get. People are so busy going on about 'maclunky' that they don't realise how the rhythm of the scene has been altered to take it away from the darkly comedic tone it had before.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Yes. Lucas from 2012:

"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down."

So, to make this fit his opinion we got the clumsily done neck dodge.

Amazing - every word he said is wrong.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Do you 2019 bro? I don't think we're allowed to mention any of these by name any more but there are loads of fan restorations out there, to the point where any truly dedicated SW nut will have acquired the UOT already (and in rather spiffy form, not those shite DVDs) which also makes any kind of official release less likely.

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Agreed. I really don't see the unaltered originals ever happening at this point. Disney probably only sees a small minority of fans who care about this anyway. I'm also not certain even after Lucas has passed that they would go against his wishes.

These 2012 4K masters will be the official definitive version for God knows how many years since 8K is going to mean nothing here so no reason to "remaster" these again in their minds.

Hell, we had 15+ years of these crappy 2004 masters and it was only 4K (and really 3D) that forced the new work. These new masters will be recycled in one form or another for decades in all likelihood.

There are some great fan editions out there, but none equal what we could get from a proper remaster from the original negatives. There are de-specialized versions, using all kinds of tricks to replace certain shots, or remove certain effects, and there are terrific 4k scans of 35mm prints, but I'm sure you're aware that a proper release on blu-ray (or UHD would be even better of course) would smoke these fan editions.

I'm pretty sure if we got a proper release of the original films as originally released, fans would not hesitate to buy them.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by peschi

Yep, we figured that out already. 4K scan of existing conformed negative, upscales for the SE CG stuff that was redone post-97 (though the redos that were done for the 4K remaster in 2012 could've been done in 4K).

edit

TBH I'm not sure why it's such a revelation to Star Wars comparisons matey either, if they were doing a new 4K scan then they had to return to the conformed negative.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Lucas never liked the casual violence in Star Wars

So, why didn't he change the blasters into walkie-talkies?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mar3o

There are some great fan editions out there, but none equal what we could get from a proper remaster from the original negatives. There are de-specialized versions, using all kinds of tricks to replace certain shots, or remove certain effects, and there are terrific 4k scans of 35mm prints, but I'm sure you're aware that a proper release on blu-ray (or UHD would be even better of course) would smoke these fan editions.

I'm pretty sure if we got a proper release of the original films as originally released, fans would not hesitate to buy them.

The Despecialiseds are a hodge podge that've been cobbled together mostly from the previous Lowry transfers and so have all those problems baked in, but the restorations from prints are rather good. Proper ground-up restorations of the original originals would be even better (they'd "smoke" the Despecialised for the reason mentioned, but the prints? Hmmm), but then how restored is restored? Would people cry foul if the compositing was tidied up or would we get an equal outcry from people who are so used to the improved composites in the SEs that if they saw the originals they'd complain?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So, why didn't he change the blasters into walkie-talkies?

Because they don't have walkie-talkies in Star Wars, you silly billy!

[Scottishguy]

"Casual violence" like blowing up an entire planet? Or did Alderaan shoot first?

Seriously, in a black and white universe with space nazis. I don't think there's any objection to space Nazis getting shot up.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I was just quoting what Lucas said on the 2011 cut.

I know. I wasn’t referring to you. I’ve seen that quote before. I meant his claims that ‘it was all done in closeups so you couldn’t tell who shot blah blah blah’

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

"Casual violence" like blowing up an entire planet? Or did Alderaan shoot first?

Alderaan's not supposed to be a "bad guy".